Breaking Bad- Season 4

[Artemis]

Superb episode. See, I don't mind that all of this is building up. Each season should be allowed to have it's own form and structure, and this one is clearly about the slow-burn. While that means sometimes I'd prefer for things to happen quicker, the last couple of episodes provide the pay-off, and I can only see it building and building up to what I expect to be a finale in which either Walt kills Gus or Hank finds out, or both.

A few lovely moments in this latest one - classic BB material; obviously "I am The Danger" was awesome, but nicer still was Mike's growing affection for Jesse. Jesse has predictably fallen for Gus' BS hook, line and sinker, leading to a potential showdown between him and Walt if Walt continues to be alienated in the way he's being now. The opening scene was skillfully done, too. Most of all, the writing really seems to have stepped up a notch in the last couple of episodes.

Like others here, I have hopes that there are things that have been gently building throughout the lifetime of this show that will find their fulfilment in episodes to come. I like the points about Walt's cancer spreading to his brain but I don't think they will want to re-tread any ground. This episode came a little too close for comfort in terms of returning to Walt trying to suck up to Skyler - no more of that, please. Also, Skyler is very annoying when she's just giving out the silent treatment.

All in all, this is terrific stuff. I tried to explain to a housemate last night why this show is better than 'How I Met Your Mother', but quickly gave up - I mean, sheesh.

[kitsofan34]

You struggled to explain how BREAKING BAD is better than How I Met Your Mother?!

[Johnny Townmouse]

Carrying on with the point Johnny Townmouse made, sometime (in series 5 probably) Hank and Walt are going to have one of those one to one conversations in the desert. It's obvious that scene is going to be f'ing amazing. Does everyone think Walt is capable of killing Hank? On a moral basis, not physical.

Well, pondering on the possible future plot-lines for BB is banned in my house so I do like to wonder in this thread, but yeah it's going to be a great moment. Part of me thinks it will be Walt telling Hank, another thinks Hank will work it out himself, but really I hope it is something much more unusual. And yes, I think Walt will be able to kill Hank both morally and physically, but I get the feeling that it is going to be the other way round. I reckon Walt will die in the final episode, probably at the hands of Hank rather than a cartel, and I think it will be bitter-sweet because Walt's cancer will have come-back and be untreatable. And I think the impetus for doing it lies not just with Walt's status (and some of the things I imagine he will do in the final season, like sanction a cop killing for example), but because Skylar is Hank's sister and I think her future looks bleak.

Regarding Artemis' comments about 'slow burn' I personally don't feel that those previous two episodes justify the first four episodes. There simply was no need to have Jesse's Hosue of Fun scenes to set-up the way Gus is manipulating him, or the growing relationship between Mike and Jesse. It is possible to show Jesse's state of mind in half an episode. I personally feel that where we are now should have happened by episode three - and that is more galling knowing that we don't have that many hours left of the show.

I rewatched the episode again last night and I was struck by how well it was put together. I really enjoyed the dark, controlling, egomaniacal side of Walt, and found the scene with the dollar in the car wash to be one of the best expositions on a character's state of mind as I have ever seen in a TV show. Brilliant, and subtle. That they held back on showing Hank was lovely. He is a character I have never cared much for in the past - now I just want to see what he is up to, and how close he is to Heisenberg. Love it.

I do wish that their fucking kid would be less sanctimonious, earnest and all-american though. He's always telling them how happy he is that they are home. When is he going to get a taste for the blue stuff already?

[Artemis]

You struggled to explain how BREAKING BAD is better than How I Met Your Mother?!

Yes, but because the person involved couldn't accept the first couple of points I made and it would only irritate me greatly to continue to have to explain what to me is blindingly obvious.

[Old Thrashbarg]

Jesse has predictably fallen for Gus' BS hook, line and sinker

I'm not sure he did initially. Or, at least, I think Walt intorduced some doubt into Jesse's mind. Enough that Jesse felt the need to question Gus. Though Gus's further praise probably has been enough to convince Jesse that he is genuinely valued, given how much he desires to get positive feedback and reassurance, and how much he wants to be considered at least as important as Walt.

Skylar is Hank's sister

It's Skyler and Marie that are sisters.

[Johnny Townmouse]

It's Skyler and Marie that are sisters.

Not sure how I got the idea into my head that Skylar and Hank are siblings, thanks for the correction. It's odd, but I thought Skylar had a sisterly interest in trying to help Hank get out of his negative state of mind. But now I remember the shop-lifting story in the first season, and of course they are sisters!

Something else that isn't that subtle but which I enjoy is the way that characters have conversations that are about one thing but clearly relate to something else. For instance when Bogdan (sp?) is talking about Walt having to be a tough boss to run a business (and how he could call Skylar in if he can't hack it) or the way that Walt tries to convince Walt Jnr that he doesn't have an illness - he has made very deliberate choices that he stands by. Good stuff.

[Tiny Poster]

For instance when Bogdan (sp?) is talking about Walt having to be a tough boss to run a business

I loved that Bogdan chidingly speculated that Walt would be lounging-with-feet-on-his-desk sort of boss, which is exactly what Walt did when he 'hired' the Honduran women.

[mr. logic]

'As is,' motherfucker.

[Johnny Townmouse]

I loved that Bogdan chidingly speculated that Walt would be lounging-with-feet-on-his-desk sort of boss, which is exactly what Walt did when he 'hired' the Honduran women.

Ha! I totally missed that.

[Artemis]

Me too! Nice.

There hasn't been much mention of Skylar's trip to 'Four Corners' to flip a coin yet. What do we think of that? It seemed a bit uncharacteristic for somebody so head-strong previously. I wondered as to her thought process during that scene, and didn't really understand the result. I've since read that she was seemingly trying to work out where to live, and would accept wherever the coin landed. It landed first in a different state, so she went for 'best of three' but it landed there again, and in the end, she just returned home anyway, justifying it with the last line of the episode.

Is that how others see it?

[Little Hoover]

I wasn't paying attention, because I was just thinking of the Simpsons scene where they stand in 5 different states.

[Johnny Townmouse]

I was thinking about when Michael Moore got those gay guys to fuck each other in a van straddling three states where sodomy is illegal.

But yes, as I said a few posts ago, I thought that scene was over-egged. They obviously wanted to find a visual way to show that Skylar was considering cutting and running but thought better of it because of her need to protect her family from the man who protects her family. I suppose it shows her weakness in some ways - she doesn't have the strength to cut loose, or perhaps she is strong enough to stick around to face the consequences of her complicity with Walt's crimes. Given that she went in response to Walt giving up info that implies he is a big-hitter rather than a victim, I wonder if she is starting to see him as an enemy. I agree with a post above that her silent treatment to Walt gets rather wearying - the writers must believe that she has some moral high-ground over Walt, where she has shown that she really does not. I wish the politics of their relationship was played out a little more evenly on this point.

[kitsofan34]

Why did she take Molly but leave Junior with his meth-cooking father who eemed to be going a little crazy?

EDIT: P.S I don't like Jesse's new haircut, draws attention to his weird nostrils.

[Tiny Poster]

He was about to go to school.

[buntyman]

I'm surprised by the positive reaction to this week's show on here, I really don't like the direction Walt's character is taking. I think it would be rubbish if Walt just gradually made more ill-considered and impulsive decisions and got himself caught or killed as a result of that. Despite the fact that he's been under more pressure since the Gayle stuff, I would have thought he'd have come up with a much smarter response and shown more resistance to the surveilance cameras. The recruitment of those cleaners (was it really that much work to do himself?!) and the buying of a flashy car was absolutely ridiculous and more akin the Malcolm in the Middle's dad's style of decision making. There hasn't really been any tension at all and if Walt is going to continue to unravel leading to the inevitable domestic squabbles, I'm going to be bored. I think something big has to happen in the next episode to get things back on track such as the death of a major character. Do you think it could be possible that Gus could be trying to engineer the offing of Jesse by Walt as Walt becomes more paranoid by Jesse's secret meetings and distance?

I do wish that their fucking kid would be less sanctimonious, earnest and all-american though. He's always telling them how happy he is that they are home. When is he going to get a taste for the blue stuff already?

That made me laugh. He really needs to grow a pair doesn't he?

[Johnny Townmouse]

I sympathise with your view but I think that if we trace Walt's character back, we can see that he has been impetuous from the very first episode. I don't think it was just the cancer diagnosis that made him forego all common sense for a life of nihilistic money-making. There is a whole sub-plot regarding his sense of worth, and feeling powerless and hard done by thanks to his previous business partners. I think he is an arrogant person, or at least aware of his own brilliance, but he has been disempowered. I guess I buy that this side of Walt is coming out because I think it has always been there.

Regarding Jesse - I think (as Walt pointed out himself in the last episode) that Gus is trying to drive a wedge between them but I'm not sure how it will play out. I do think there will come a point where Walt will turn his back on Jesse, instigated by Gus machiavellian infuence, but it's clear that his character will be there until the final episode so who knows?

[mr. logic]

The thing about his son is that he used to be a much more interesting character: in the first season he was snippy and awkward with both parents. His completely over the top and unrealistic idolisation of his dad is quite a new trait, and a very irritating one.

[The Region Legion]

It's quite common though, for an absent parent to be the idolised one. Their son's reaction doesn't surprise me at all, but what does bother me is that they have nothing to do with him anymore and still have to shoe-horn him in. I'm glad this is the first episode he's even been in for more than a second and hope we don't have to see him again for a while - at least not until he's killed off by Gus or Mike as revenge for something Walt will do.

[actwithoutwords]

Count me surprised at the positive reaction to that one. Skyler's line at the end only partially redeemed an otherwise unbearably clunky episode, lacking in levity, individuality, surprise or intrigue. Walt's conversation with Bogdan was awful on-the-nose scriptwriting, compounded by his oh-so-heartless use of the dollar, Skyler's coin flipping was as subtle as a brick and Walt's car-buying and washer-exploiting was pathetically stupid (and a painfully explicit reflection of the Bogdan discussion). Oh, and Skyler verbalised the already obvious conclusions about Walt from the dinner scene last week, just in case we weren't paying attention.
To say nothing for "IT'S ALL ABOUT ME". I wonder was that intended to indicate that Walt is becoming more and more egomaniacal and paranoid as time progresses?
Sigh.
The self-conscious moodiness and darkness of the whole thing is getting on my tits too. That's not how the show used to be.
Is the camera on the end of the spade really getting praise? Smacked of "what crazy thing can we stick a camera into now?" to me. The show has stopped getting the little things right, and the big things have soon followed.

[/miseryguts]

[Funcrusher]

I tend to agree. I'm hoping things will improve, but at the moment watching this season is feeling like a bit of a chore. I don't really like where any of the characters are going.

[Artemis]

I really don't like the direction Walt's character is taking. I think it would be rubbish if Walt just gradually made more ill-considered and impulsive decisions and got himself caught or killed as a result of that.

I doubt it will be that simple, but I'd be disappointed if that doesn't form part of an ending. For me, BB has always been about Walt's transformation from meak, under-achieving chemistry teacher to Heisenberg. He's not a character I think we're supposed to like, at least not conventionally. His incresingly reactionary and impulsive behaviour are perfectly reasonable consequences to the stress of his circumstances combined with his ballooning ego; he's essentially on self-destruct at this point and running towards it with increasing speed and delusion of self. Cranston does this so well, it's rarely anything but a joy to watch.

I would have thought he'd have come up with a much smarter response and shown more resistance to the surveilance cameras. The recruitment of those cleaners (was it really that much work to do himself?!) and the buying of a flashy car was absolutely ridiculous

Agreed on the second point, but I still think it's in keeping with the evolution of his character. Walt has changed; we've seen him notice the cameras countless times, but he's becoming exasperated and arrogant, and he's making silly decisions as a result. It's not as if the writers are unaware of this, and Skylar's line about protecting the family from the person protecting the family was a much-needed nod to the viewer that they are very much aware of the direction they're taking Walt.

There hasn't really been any tension at all and if Walt is going to continue to unravel leading to the inevitable domestic squabbles, I'm going to be bored.

Oh definitely. If it ends up being only about whether Walt's family can make it through this, I'm going to be bored too. I personally think it's going to be a lot more creative than that, especially next season when they have an end-date to work towards. I'd disagree that there's been very little tension - the first episode was very tense, and the skill in writing means even dinner parties (like last week) can be incredibly tense.

I think something big has to happen in the next episode

I think the 'big' things this season will be character based, myself. In that regard, there have already been several 'big' moments, but I agree that something big needs to happen plot-wise to move things along to the next stage; it feels as if we've reached a point now where the pieces are in place for that to happen, and it is in danger of dragging a bit if we have another similar episode.

[kitsofan34]

He's not a character I think we're supposed to like, at least not conventionally.

Yes, when Walt let Jesse's girlfriend choke to death on her own vomit, I think that's a pretty good indication they aren't trying to make him very likeable.

[Artemis]

Yeah, it's weird. He's obviously not a likeable guy in terms of some of his actions, but he's still got me and everyone I know who watches this on-side, and we're all hoping he turns Heisenberg so we can watch him 'go bad-ass'. That's the appeal, isn't it - to see someone who's spent their recent years being dealt a shitty hand of cards by 'life' aggressively taking control of their lives a bit.

[actwithoutwords]

he's still got me and everyone I know who watches this on-side, and we're all hoping he turns Heisenberg so we can watch him 'go bad-ass'.

It's odd, because that's one of the primary factors I've lost interest in Walt. The light and shade of his character has gone, and him "going badass" no longer holds any impact for me.
The other thing is that previously when Walt was turning into more and more of a dick, Jesse would become more likeable. By this point however, there is no one in the show at the moment behaving in a remotely likeable way. Even Walter Junior, whose role has been frustratingly limited this season, realising he was being bought off by his dad and demanded a ridiculous fancy car, which was a bit annoying.

On the other hand, maybe this is all leading to some kind of breakdown from Walt which would be good. Rather than every time he shows a flicker of vulnerability he responds by being even cuntier.

[Space ghost]

I don't want him to go badass. That ' I am the danger ' speech was ridiculous and wildly inaccurate. It almost felt like a bit of a shark jump to me

[Artemis]

That ' I am the danger ' speech was ridiculous and wildly inaccurate.

But doesn't it speak to Walt's increasingly inflated ego? I don't think much of what he says is intended to be taken at face value; it all speaks to his gradual transformation/breakdown. I did find it pretty thrilling on one level, but on another I felt quite sorry for him.

AAW, as much as I'd quite like the best for Walt, I think the inevitable conclusion to all this isn't going to be pretty for him. I suspect some kind of overwhelming 'reveal' will take place in which this sense of kingpin will be swept from under him (but not before we get to see the Walt/Hank, Walt/Gus scenes, surely). Also, the 'danger' scene was quite brilliant in it's portrayal of light and dark, I think. The look he gives Skylar after blurting that out said it all.

[Tiny Poster]

But doesn't it speak to Walt's increasingly inflated ego?

He still likes to think he's a 'professional' on the same level as Gus, yes. Also, he was hungover (ie still drunk) when he made that speech.

[Funcrusher]

But doesn't it speak to Walt's increasingly inflated ego?

It just makes him seem idiotic. By no stretch of the imagination is he badass in the way Mike or Gus are, and as the highly intelligent and educated person he is he should know that. The thing he was always proud/arrogant about was his skill as a chemist. Hence his drunkenly stating that Gael wasn't smart enough to be Heisenberg seemed perfectly in character - that episode is, at the moment, looking like a brief flash of the writing quality of the earlier series. 

[kitsofan34]

Awesome bomb. http://www.bettercallsaul.com/

[Old Thrashbarg]

It just makes him seem idiotic.

But as was pointed out, he was still drunk. And fed up of continually being painted as the weak, put-upon minion of the real druglord by Skyler. Given his arrogance and the knowledge that he is vital to Gus's business, combined with alcohol, it's perfectly understandable/feasible that he'd react as he did. We saw that once he'd had a shower, which sobered him up a bit (you could perhaps criticise that for being a little clichéd, even if it is a truism), he wanted to apologise for his overblown outburst.