Did you enjoy things more before the internet?

[Z/Sb]

Reason I ask:
It just seems to me that I enjoyed Chris Morris a lot more before I discovered Cook'd & Bomb'd. That's not a knock at C&B at all - the site is one of the best fansites on the planet and certainly the best CM site which will ever exist. It's more a knock at rabid fans in general and I say this about everyone from Chris Morris to Suede, Bowie to Morrissey, Simpsons to South Park, Gary Numan to Beck, etc.
When I first got the net in 2000, I was looking forward to the sites about my heroes but I soon began to get turned off by things I was previously interested in due to overzealous fansites and fans in general. The first to do this was the message board (and the moderators) on the official Suede site. But I soon noticed the same bullshit applied to all the sites on the net. I just got so tired of rabid fans endlessly praising and not being able to take any criticism. I also got tired of the egos.

I read some message on Verbwhores recently which was very accusing of Neil and, especially, TJ. It seemed people were wondering why they don't get involved so much in the forums anymore. Well, I personally think that there comes a time when you get so fucking bored of the same conversations being regurgitated again & again that the people who run these fansites just want to call it a day. Especially, as well, when the people the sites are dedicated to seem to be going downhill. Example: Chris Morris, the Simpsons, Vic & Bob, Morrissey, the list is endless. I guess thats why so many people come and go on forums such as these.

I've had some bust ups on C&B in the past but I always said it was a great site and that opinion will never change. If anything, the site has become far better because people seem to be more truthful with their opinions than, say, pre-2002. But there are other sites out there which are so opinionated and one-sided that it just puts me right off.

[wheatgod]

... there comes a time when you get so fucking bored of the same conversations being regurgitated again & again that the people who run these fansites just want to call it a day. Especially, as well, when the people the sites are dedicated to seem to be going downhill. Example: Chris Morris.

the boards are hardly based purely upon chris morris, tho, so his "decline" can hardly be blamed. i think there is more of a case for there being a lack of sufficient new people, and what new people there dont make one's mind fizz with excitement.
im hardly poster #1 (who is?), my opinion tho. im so tired.....

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[mayer]

an interesting thread idea, the internet overloads you with information, news, mp3s, etc. etc. with consequent ups and downs from that

you don't have the same excitement of grasping a single you only heard once on the radio when you've had the mp3 for 6 weeks. the NME has fallen apart for a bunch of reasons, in part NME dot com.

i can get more Pop now, and hear and get into things i wouldn't've done otherwise, but does that mean i value it less in some ways? possibly. i definitely think of it differently now.


but on the other hand i've never considered myself a comedy "fan" in any way shape or form. i saw the odd thing on telly and laughed. if anything CaB has made me into a more avid comedy type. i can honestly say that i never got excited about comedy before i stumbled across this place looking for BJ mp3s.... i enjoy comedy more because of the internet in general and CaB in particular.

Especially, as well, when the people the sites are dedicated to seem to be going downhill. Example: Chris Morris, the Simpsons, Vic & Bob, Morrissey

heh.... Moz has only gone uphill in the last 7 years.... and his worst album was his second.... (the cunts at morrissey-solo dot com you're probably referring to are a buch of wankers though)

[Rev]

The internet hurts enjoyment of new things more than appreciation of stuff that you already know* but I voted 'yes' because I think I know what you mean.  I've seen quite a few films after having read a wagon-load of online reviews, positive and negative, and the cinema-going experience did end up feeling a little like painting-by-numbers:  'oh, yeah, that's the plot hole...  that's the funny reference that'll go over the audience's heads...  that's the effects sequence by which it will be remembered'.  We only have ourselves, and our itchy clicking fingers, to blame though.




*Kneeing things to a slight angle, it's my 100,000th reference to Twin Peaks on the board, based around a discussion with a friend yesterday.  The gist of it was that such a series, with a major secret at the heart of the (first stage) of it, could no longer have the same kind of international impact, because of the internet.  I think that's true.  I would have been Googling "Laura Palmer" +"killer" towards the end of the American run, and hating myself for it in the morning.

[mayer]

We only have ourselves, and our itchy clicking fingers, to blame though.

agreed... r.e. TP, thank fuck my mate sat me in front of the VHS of them four years back, before Ch4 started giving away everything all over the shop. the tarts.

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[TJ]

Significantly, I think that the best example of this was BES. It really did seem as though most online Morris fans couldn't actually be bothered waiting a couple of days to see it, and instead fell on every last scrap of leaked information like a pack of starving hyenas (and despite the flak that Neil has taken for his attempts to throw people off the scent and stop the glory-hunting spoilermania, he wasn't the villain of the piece and it's about time people admitted that). I think it probably clouded everyone's judgement, for and against. Maybe people wouldn't have been so quick to label it 'fackin' genius' if they'd had the build-up of expectation and then seen it in the cold light of day as a very patchy and lacklustre effort...

[Bilko]

'The internet is the biggest waste of time since masturbation', that's what Norman Mailer said, which is interesting because both things belong to each other.

Not answering the question asked I would say that I have more to enjoy since the getting on the net.  One simple example is the CM Radio shows, something I never had the opportunity to enjoy more since I never had them on before I got on the net.  

So the question of enjoying something more before I got onto the net doesn't arise in most cases.

Most of the stuff I've got of the net, Music, comedy (from this site) is stuff I would never have bought or been able to buy anywhere.

[Pinball]

On the point of the Net, I think it's absolutely, without question, the best thing to happen technologically in the last 10 years, particularly on the home entertainment front. When I was collecting laserdiscs back in the 1990s, I clearly remember the amazing shift that occurred in 1995/6, when I went from requesting catalogues from the US by letter or fax, to browsing a website (initially not really a website as it was linked with Compuserve fora). Add to that the monumental growth in information availability that has occurred, and P2P of course, and it truly is incredible. What was there before the Net for this sort of entertainment information? Newsletters, magazines and the like, and poor quality cassette copies. Truly a shadow in comparison.

[Crazy Penis]

The net is remarkable. It gives everyone the opportunity to learn about anything, hear views from people you wouldn't normally ever meet and have a great amount of fun in the comfort of your own home. People can always find answers for any question they've been longing to find an answer for, very easily. But I can understand how some people may see it in a bad light because it's like the 'too much money' scenario. The idea of having it all loses it's appeal when you've got it.

[Almost Yearly]

What was there before the Net for this sort of entertainment information? Newsletters, magazines and the like, and poor quality cassette copies. Truly a shadow in comparison.

Yes but wasn't there something delicious and fun and exclusive feeling about poor quality cassette copies? Like not every twat and his sister can get what you've got? Wasn't the feeling when you got your hands on the latest issue of some weirdo fanzine printed in someone's toilet and could cuddle up with a cuppa to pore through its tasty pages far better than being sent a link to the online version on an automatic email?

Maybe people wouldn't have been so quick to label it 'fackin' genius' if they'd had the build-up of expectation and then seen it in the cold light of day as a very patchy and lacklustre effort...

So they'd have enjoyed it less, which supports the motion, and an interesting motion it is too. I voted Yes & No, but I think I'm closer to Yes really. As are we all, it seems, so far. Hmmm. More information = less fun? Not the cheeriest postulate with which to enter the Information Age is it. For instance, Teej, hasn't the fun you get out of nurturing your ever-expanding encyclopaedic knowledge of stuff been devalued somewhat by any old tosser being able to Google it up in seconds?

I'm just old I s'pose.

[mwude]

This very topic was brought to my mind over the weekend when I was putting all the Blue Jam episodes on a disc for someone in return for all the On The Hours.  A couple of things came up because of it -

a) I've have never had any contact with this person before the internet.

b) The blue jam episodes all have very small gaps at about the half hour mark.  A quick head-scratch later & I realised that the original person who recorded them was stopping and turning over a tape.  I kind of miss that - having to make an effort to stay up & be prepared with a c60 or a c90 to catch your favourite show.  Now you can just click on 'listen again', or d/l in a couple of days time from slsk and the like.  It's much, much easier and also much, much, much lazier.

As regards "when you get so fucking bored of the same conversations being regurgitated again & again " - well it is inevitable that a site with 1,000s of posters old & new will go over the same ground.  How long has this forum been going now - 4 years?  5 years?  But we still keep coming back like the dolts we are.  Even people who give it "I'm going & never coming back!  This place is a waste of time & I hate you all!" seem to trickle back.

And without a site like this I'd have never known about Morris' GLR stuff, let alone been able to listen to it.  The over-hyping spouted by rabid fans is a more than acceptable trade-off for this in my view.

[5 Knuckle Shuffle]

I remember my computer going all fucky for a while and not being able to afford to get it fixed. I hated every single minute for the first hour or so. Then, I got off my backside and actually did some *real* and *legal* interacting with other likewise human beings and it was great.
Mind you, when I got back home it was crap having to revert to my wank bank instead of camsathome.com. It did mean I could use my right hand though.

Cripes, this is the second thread that I have resorted to sexual connotations. The other one I decided to press the back button (That is not another sexual connotation.)

[Pinball]

What was there before the Net for this sort of entertainment information? Newsletters, magazines and the like, and poor quality cassette copies. Truly a shadow in comparison.

Yes but wasn't there something delicious and fun and exclusive feeling about poor quality cassette copies? Like not every twat and his sister can get what you've got? Wasn't the feeling when you got your hands on the latest issue of some weirdo fanzine printed in someone's toilet and could cuddle up with a cuppa to pore through its tasty pages far better than being sent a link to the online version on an automatic email?

I get where you're coming from, AM. The elitist savouring their precious rare collection of goodies, like a veritable Charles Saatchi of comedy tapes ;-)

But I really do prefer what we have now vs. what we had then. As a kleptomaniac, I have had to discipline myself, but even then it's fairly easy with DVDRs. Indeed, shortly we'll hopefully have BluRay 50GB DVDRs - then the comedy shit will truly hit the download fan (terrible analogy)!! I find large external hard drives meet most of my needs, and funnily enough on a cost-per-MB basis, they're comparable to DVDRs incredibly. I backed up one of these HDs at the weekend onto 37 DVDRs. Holy crap. LaCie are now doing 500GB drives so we're getting into terabyte territory.

I think as long as you filter the information and efficiently catalogue it, it is possible to avoid information overload. The main problem I find is actually having time to listen to/watch the stuff. The other issue is ability to download. I find now that I'm d/l so much that there's never enough bandwidth, and am now switching to copying and requesting DVDR copies. So, ironically, having left the cassette-copying era we're now returning to it, sorta, albeit on a more biblical scale datawise. But I have to say I love it!

It's a bit like how many people prefer manual cars to automatic. My view is to go for the automatic with cruise control and aircon every time. If the technology exists, use it! ;-)

[Timmay]

It's a bit like how many people prefer manual cars to automatic. My view is to go for the automatic with cruise control and aircon every time. If the technology exists, use it! ;-)

If the oil exists, let's use it! ;o)

Your automatic with aircon and cruise control won't be much use when the oil runs out.

Ooh, I've come over all Pinny.

EDIT: Punctuation bollocks.

[Pinball]

hehe - ok it wasn't the best analogy ;-)

I sort of meant let's use the best available technology, which is probably not best epitomized by gas guzzlers. But you know what I mean, eh, eh?

[TJ]

So they'd have enjoyed it less, which supports the motion, and an interesting motion it is too. I voted Yes & No, but I think I'm closer to Yes really. As are we all, it seems, so far. Hmmm. More information = less fun? Not the cheeriest postulate with which to enter the Information Age is it. For instance, Teej, hasn't the fun you get out of nurturing your ever-expanding encyclopaedic knowledge of stuff been devalued somewhat by any old tosser being able to Google it up in seconds?

I think it's certainly taken away some of the excitement - as much as I enjoy 'new' GLR shows turning up, I do wonder if most people who've downloaded them from these boards will ever know the excitement I felt in the mid-1990s when I finally managed to track down a one-sided C90 of GLR clips after months of pestering everyone I knew who had had anything to do with London ever, and in all honesty watched the letterbox waiting for it to arrive through the post (hey, I was a student at the time!).

It's swings and roundabouts, though, as I think in some ways sites such as SOTCAA (or even something like Toonhound, I'd argue) can only gain if their architects are fed up with the fact that 'rarities' are easily available but nobody ever makes any substantial comment about them.

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[Pinball]

The Internet and its related technologies enable a fuller, richer representation of artistic endeavour and consequently fandom, and as such I stand by the contention that I enjoy things much more post- than pre-Internet.

Music is a classic example. Personally I prefer the complete album output of a band to a best of CD. Moreover, I have heard things (e.g. Japanese and Russian music) that otherwise would not have been possible. Did I appreciate things more pre-Internet? How could I if I hadn't heard them??

As for my own comedic interests and fandom, I would go so far as to say I didn't know the subject at all adequately until the Web came along.

[mwude]

But this post/poll is about fansites and other sites making you enjoy things you liked less due to rabid fanaticism, over-hype, etc

But why are you letting others' opinions affect your own?  Plenty of people like things so much they will reject any form of criticism about it, or enjoy things 'for the wrong reasons' (I love the arrogance of that phrase, instantly implying you know what the 'right reasons' are - hehe!).  The internet merely allows them to broadcast their hype over a greater distance than they could in the pub or a fanzine.

Does a fawning, sycophantic review of an album / a tv show piss you off so much that it alters your own view of it?  Or have I mis-interpreted what you've said?

Rabid fanaticism is irritating & mis-guided, but surely better than cooler-than-thou, aloof indifference?

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[weekender]

Hmm, just been thinking about this, and the answer is 'Yes and no', but perhaps for different reasons people have outlined so far.

My 'yes' reasons far are largely the same that people have outlined already - the gradual osmosis of information/media from the people who had previously only been able to share on a limited basis is obviously superb - I've got loads of stuff I never even thought I'd own - a recent example being an EP I bought on EBay for £3 that I'd have paid up to £20 for had I seen it in a record shop.  I don't want to dwell on that though, I'd like to outline my main 'no' reason.

The reason is that I have been made aware of stuff that I was probably happy living in ignorance about.  Through the various websites that I visit - this one included - I've been made more aware of the horrendous things that happen.  I was always sort-of-consciously aware of them, but they weren't 'in my face' as much, and I never really considered them a threat.  However, given the 'freedom of information' that the internet seems to encourage, I've seen a lot more things that, with hindsight, I might have been better off not seeing.

The immediate examples I can think of are:

a) someone being hit by a train and being splatted towards a fence
b) the Nick Berg execution
c) tubgirl
d) goatse
e) all sorts of films like 'Irreversible', 'Cannibal Holocaust' etc
f) really dodgy porn stuff, like scat porn and that
g) Echelon type stuff

Now, whilst I think that I'm a mature adult (don't mock), these things still kind of sicken me to an extent.  I'd like to think that I'm mature and intelligent enough to be able to see these things and make my own mind up about how shocking, detrimental, challenging etc they are.  But still, 'these things' worry me to a certain extent, I do get paranoid about who monitors my ISP connection now, who's really in control of things.  Maybe I've still got a conscience somewhere, I don't know.

My point is that until the internet came along, I was content not knowing much  about them, although I knew they existed.

Having gained that much information though, sometimes I wonder if I was better off not knowing about them, and would have been better off living in ignorance.

I'm glad that I do know about them, don't get me wrong, in some ways I feel grateful for accumulating such knowledge.  But I also wonder if I'd have been better off mentally not knowing, and just 'playing my role' and doing things like just listening to music in a park somewhere.