Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 28, 2024, 11:29:20 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy

Started by CaledonianGonzo, September 18, 2011, 07:49:38 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

CaledonianGonzo

A winner.  I haven't seen the TV version for years, so I was relatively unburdened of any sense of expectation as to how certain roles should be played, Smiley aside (perhaps).  It's just this confident, classy piece of work, and a huge leap on from Let The Right One In for director Tomas Alfredson.  The sense of time and place is stylish but at the same time authentically bleak and shabby.

Maybe the only criticism is that the cast is slightly too top heavy - you couldn't throw a rock at the screen without hitting a Bafta winner.  Luckily even the (relatively) minor players like Kathy Burke bring their A game, so it's not exactly problematic.  Oh - and Toby Jones' Scottish accent wasn't bad, either.

Recommended.

Oh - and a big man-phwoar for Tom 'Thomas' Hardy.

the midnight watch baboon

Having to wait until next Sunday to see this, but I already have selected the ideal pic'n'mix (top heavy with fizzy orange cables), the clothes I'm going to wear (top heavy shirt!), the grim expression I'll sport throughout and the hard, cold looks I'll flash fellow viewers with as we file out into the streetlit Yorkshire night after[nb]the credits roll[/nb]wards.

CaledonianGonzo

Tried an experimental end credits 'sit through' yesterday, but didn't quite make it to the end.  The pub was calling.

the midnight watch baboon

Yeah I generally can't be bothered either! Not that I imagine T,T,S,S has a hilarious string of bloopers/closed eyes of  presumed dead, evil spies reopening to set up a killer sequel....

Genuinely can't wait to go, despite never having seen the TV original and the only le Carre I've read being The Spy Who Came In From the Cold. So is good that I don't even know whodunnit in spy terms.

CaledonianGonzo

Quote from: the midnight watch baboon on September 18, 2011, 08:22:45 AM
So is good that I don't even know whodunnit in spy terms.

Spoiler alert
The butler did it
[close]

the midnight watch baboon


Shoulders?-Stomach!

Quote
Maybe the only criticism is that the cast is slightly too top heavy - you couldn't throw a rock at the screen without hitting a Bafta winner.

This is one of my big apprehensions about it, as it can have a distracting effect and ruin the immersion of the piece.

When I read the novel I felt Peter Guillam and Jim Prideaux were the most interesting characters, though I fear that the film will focus mostly on Haydon and Smiley (Firth and Oldman). In fact I'm quite intrigued as to how they the film portrays Prideaux.

Tamarind Massacre

The main problem with the film is the same as many films based on books:  There is too much material, so they either have to cut a lot (so being unfaithful to the letter of the original) or have to rush through it (so being unfaithful to the spirit of the original).  TTSS the movie has not abridged very much, so it ends up feeling rushed (I wonder if someone not already familiar with the story would be able to follow).

The other problem is that in the book, most of the story is told through people relating past events to Smiley.  This allows many subtle effects, not least the question of whether what is being told is trustworthy.  Like many le Carre books, not much actually happens; the story is about how the truth of past events and the lives of the characters is gradually revealed, and the climax of the story is reached when that truth has been fully established.  What makes le Carre novels entertaining (if repetitive in structure) is that this process is handled so well.  And it works particularly well in the novels with Smiley as the protagonist, where the books have a slow, methodical atmosphere that aligns with the character of Smiley.

That doesn't translate to film at all easily.  In this film, we are shown what happened in flashback.  This directness loses a lot of the subtlety that makes le Carre special.

So I think this film is a good effort, and I enjoyed it, but I think it is trying to achieve the impossible.

(In contrast, he BBC radio adaptation worked well.  They had a lot more time, and much of it consists of the voice actors reading out the conversations from the book.  I saw the BBC TV adaptation as a kid, but don't remember enough about it to comment; I'm now interested to see it.)

A couple of other quibbles about the film:

- The portrayal of the circus as a kind of open-plan office is nothing at all like the impression I got from the books. 

- How is Esterhase supposed to be pronounced?  In the BBC radio version, it is like "Esterhahzy". In this film, it varies, but it often almost sounds like "Esterhouse".  le Carre was an executive producer on the film; does that mean they would have asked him?  Googling turns up a forum where someone suggests that the former pronunciation is correct in Hungarian, but Esterhase might have Anglicised it.

On the subject of the all-star cast: It didn't bother me that much, except for the scenes with Kathy Burke, which I spent just listening to her doing a posh accent.

Absorb the anus burn

^^^ I think the above post is pretty fair.

I've read the book and love the TV series with some of my favourite actors - Anthony Bate, Bernard Hepton, Ian Richardson, Joss Ackland, Thorley Walters, Beryl Reid, George Sewell - the list goes on and on.... (Watch it, admire it, love it, then move onto The Sandbaggers & Bird Of Prey.)

The film is enjoyable, but has pacing issues and some poor casting. Benedict Cumberbund (sic) looked too worried, mostly about his bowlhead. Tom Hardy was good, but his mouth looks like my sphincter in the bathroom mirror. The bloke who played Toby Esterhase looked right with dome, bow tie and prop pipe, but lacked the subtleties and cruelty of Bernard Hepton's portrayal.

Gary Oldman was undeniably good - slightly better than Alec 'Extra Cold' Guiness for me... But still not the best Smiley. That goes to one of Britain's greatest living actors, Bernard Hepton again, who played George on BBC Radio 4.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

I've never seen any other version before this and, I must confess, I did indeed feel a little confused at points. However, I'm not sure if I was genuinely lost, or if I just assumed that the plot was more complex than it actually was. The main source of confusion was the extensive use of flashbacks.
Spoiler alert
I thought that the scenes with Prideaux at the school were flashbacks and wondered what the significance of them was, until George turned up in his new glasses.
[close]

Excellently made film anyway. Oldman was fantastic, suggesting so much without seeming to do anything. He seemed to be channelling Alec Guinness, but perhaps that's just how the character should be played.

dr beat

Good interview with Gary Oldman on Friday's Kermode and Mayo show. 

Is it just me, or has anyone else taken to referring to it as Tim Brooke-Taylor, Soldier Spy?

Icehaven

Quote from: CaledonianGonzo on September 18, 2011, 07:49:38 AM
Oh - and a big man-phwoar for Tom 'Thomas' Hardy.

Big grand massive phwoar for Thomas Edward Hardy here too. I thought the atmosphere was particularly good, vaguely reminiscent of Gomorrah, claustrophobic and unsettling, and Gary Oldman was good as expected. When we emerged we had a market research questionairre thrust at us asking why we'd been to see it, what we liked/didn't like etc. Never had that at a film before. Anyway should my answers be considered the directors cut might have a lot more Tom.

CaledonianGonzo

Tom 'John Thomas' Hardy, more like. Eh, lads?

Tiny Poster

Kiss me Hardy, with your lovely lips

Talulah, really!

After seeing the trailer for this in a screening of Harry Potter[nb]That's your actual target marketing synergy right there![/nb] my niece wants me to take her to that film about "A mole who's the head of a circus," frankly I think she's going to be disappointed.



PS Do love the "Inception" style trailer.

http://youtu.be/-TvdqRvCwGg

CaledonianGonzo

Funny last night to see people debating their hypothetical Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy shag order.

Poor, unlucky, unloved Toby Jones.

Tiny Poster

I haven't read the novel or seen/heard any other adaptations, but I enjoyed this. Especially how it doesn't spoonfeed or Americanise anything, it's all cold hard British period detail with bugger all exposition.

mycroft

Saw this last night and absolutely loved it, although there were a few thickie walk-outs and a confused running commentary on everything coming from a nearby bunch of twats (there was a constant iPhone light in my peripheral vision from their direction, too - hasn't the law sanctioning the summary execution of these people been passed yet?).

Icehaven

Quote from: CaledonianGonzo on September 19, 2011, 09:08:34 AM
Funny last night to see people debating their hypothetical Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy shag order.

Hardy
Firth
Oldman
Strong
Cumberbatch
Hinds
(you're right about) Jones.

CaledonianGonzo

That seems to tally up with the votes on Twitter. 

Maybe Jones's voicing of Dobby has made him seem like too much of a big, flash Hollywood star and therefore unattainable.

Icehaven

Quote from: CaledonianGonzo on September 19, 2011, 08:52:29 PM
That seems to tally up with the votes on Twitter. 

Maybe Jones's voicing of Dobby has made him seem like too much of a big, flash Hollywood star and therefore unattainable.

Well we try and dare to dream but it's best not to be too unrealistic.

Beagle 2

I loved it also, the only criticisms being the ones already mentioned - that is was distracting to have so many famouses, and it really needed to be another half hour longer at least to space out the clutter a bit.

My girlfriend has a thing for Mark Strong. I can't ever see him as anyone but old dimwit Tosker I'm afraid, which does kind of reduce the gravitas he brings to a role.

Absorb the anus burn

Quote from: CaledonianGonzo on September 19, 2011, 08:52:29 PM
That seems to tally up with the votes on Twitter. 

Maybe Jones's voicing of Dobby has made him seem like too much of a big, flash Hollywood star and therefore unattainable.

Maybe it's because he looks like an illegal backstreet abortion that miraculously survived................ Good actor though.

MissInformed

I didn't love it. I thought for all the great individual performances, there were a few vignettes of goodness but overall, it was without. Lacking something and I'm not sure what. My boyfriend fell asleep, I had to wake him up when he started snoring - yet he said he felt like he hadn't missed much.

He also said he felt like he was watching some scenes on shuffle and that's a pretty accurate description.

3/10 and would have been less if this hadn't featured Colin Firth, Mark Strong and that one with the very sexy mouth.

phantom_power

Does the abundance of known faces help keep track of the characters at all? It sounds like quite a complex film and well-known faces are often useful to knowing which character is which in the early running

CaledonianGonzo

Mmmmm....yes, in a sense it probably will help you keep a tab on who's who - more so than a cast of identikit lookalikeys would, at any rate.

Harpo Speaks

Quote from: MissInformed on September 21, 2011, 02:06:27 AM
3/10 and would have been less

Bah, Friends With Benefits is really a whole 6 points out 10 better than TTSS?

Anyway, I thought I was really good - fantastic atmosphere to the whole film, the story goes for understatement and subtlety rather than exposition and bombast, great performances and some beautiful cinematography.

I suspect there's a huge backlash on the way for it though, I don't think the level of reviews it has been getting can sustain.

MissInformed

Quote from: Harpo Speaks on September 21, 2011, 12:44:06 PMBah, Friends With Benefits is really a whole 6 points out 10 better than TTSS?

Anyway, I thought I was really good - fantastic atmosphere to the whole film, the story goes for understatement and subtlety rather than exposition and bombast, great performances and some beautiful cinematography.

I suspect there's a huge backlash on the way for it though, I don't think the level of reviews it has been getting can sustain.

Yeah...in my opinion, on a scale of how much I enjoyed each film, those are fair scores. Only in my opinion like, which I know counts for nothing.

But...beautiful cinematography? Really? I found it grey, dull and dank.

Tiny Poster