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[TECHY] Vinyl to mp3 or Vinyl to CD options

Started by 23 Daves, September 18, 2011, 08:47:35 PM

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23 Daves

Just had a bit of a nasty shock - my Philips CD Recorder has finally decided to go all whacky on me after nine years of loyal service.  It really does seem to have a case of Alzheimer's - it claims tracks are stored on to to CD then either forgets they're there or hasn't burned them in the first place, thinks about updating CDs for minutes on end, etc... it's a dead 'un, alright.  I've tried different CDs, tried switching it off and on again, but it twitters away like a trapped bird. 

Given that all I really use it for is recording vinyl on to CD so that I can then either upload records to my blog or move them on to mp3 for personal listening, I'm wondering what I need to spend (or indeed do) to get the same kind of results.  I already have the record player hooked up to a Camdbridge Audio amplifier, so technically speaking there is potentially a way I could hook this straight to a Mac or PC, I guess - but I've never tried to do so.

Alternatively, are those rather weak looking turntables you can buy which hook straight up to PCs any good?  The styli on them alone look like the kind of things you'd get with low-range Saisho music centres back in the nineties so I've always been very suspicious, but I'm happy to be told I'm wrong.

All advice would be welcome.  I've been really pleased with the sound I've been getting out of my current set-up, but my current set-up is almost a decade old and irreplaceable now, unless I get lucky on ebay. 

Consignia

I wouldn't recommend those MP3 turntable dealies, I'm no audiophile but the output is predictably weak.

I've not done it myself, but I think a good idea would to be get a decent sound card for your PC, and plug your line out from your amp to the sound card. You might have to record them uncompressed as PCM such as wav files and convert to MP3 later, but that might be better if you are an audio buff.

I accept the terms of the


23 Daves

Quote from: Consignia on September 18, 2011, 08:53:13 PM
I wouldn't recommend those MP3 turntable dealies, I'm no audiophile but the output is predictably weak.

I've not done it myself, but I think a good idea would to be get a decent sound card for your PC, and plug your line out from your amp to the sound card. You might have to record them uncompressed as PCM such as wav files and convert to MP3 later, but that might be better if you are an audio buff.

Cheers Consignia.  I have Audacity running on my Mac, plus a standard line-in socket (small headphone jack sized) - I'm guessing I could technically buy a set of wires from Maplin which will do the job of recording straight from the amp?  The only possible downside might be a significant loss of quality (and this Mac is living on borrowed time as well, so I'm not mad keen on investing on a new sound card for it when I suspect it may very well die in about six months). 

Quote from: I accept the terms of the on September 18, 2011, 08:55:06 PM
http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=debutphusb&cat=turntables&lang=en

ADC on that is probably far better than the one on your soundcard.

Point taken.  I'd definitely consider something like this but... money!  I don't have much of it to flash around at the moment.  I see Amazon are selling these for £209 which isn't a terrible score, but it would involve a fair few lonely nights in over the next month or so if I went down the route.

Thinking about it, though. 

dr_christian_troy

I know it potentially counteracts Consignia's advice, but I've been using an Ion Vinyl Player with a USB connector and haven't had a problem. It has all the crackly bits transferred, but I guess that's a personal preference. Plus they are mostly removable in Audacity, so it's not too shabby.

I accept the terms of the

Quote from: 23 Daves on September 18, 2011, 09:10:31 PMPoint taken.  I'd definitely consider something like this but... money!  I don't have much of it to flash around at the moment.  I see Amazon are selling these for £209 which isn't a terrible score, but it would involve a fair few lonely nights in over the next month or so if I went down the route.

Thinking about it, though.
I mean, if you have a good turntable already then you probably just need to buy a good ADC. Head-fi might have some recommendations.

I found this on a quick search: http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/UFO202.aspx

Consignia

I'm not saying you can't get a decent one, I accept the terms of the's suggestion looks like it'll probably be a very good solution, but it's expensive. My experience with a couple of the cheaper ones (<£100) is that they loose quite a bit of fidelity and that a sound card of a similar price can yield much better results. With that you can use your existing kit as well, which I'm sure has been tuned to your own liking[nb]I'm probably showing my ignorance here, I really am not an audiophile[/nb].

Of course, if you are happy with the results, then it's up to the job. This sort of thing can be personal, I just wouldn't recommend them on the output I've heard, and I've had a good experience recording things with my reasonably good soundcard.

23 Daves

#7
Quote from: I accept the terms of the on September 18, 2011, 09:58:04 PM
I mean, if you have a good turntable already then you probably just need to buy a good ADC. Head-fi might have some recommendations.

I found this on a quick search: http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/UFO202.aspx

Cheers, another option to consider, I think.

Right now, I've just spent £2.99 on ebay (delivery included) on a gold-plated 3M stereo - 3.5mm mini jack, which I'm assuming I'll be able to run from my turntable's pre-amp to my Mac, using Audacity to edit any results.  If this turns out hideously awful then it won't be a total waste of money, as far from the fact it's only £3 we're talking about, I can use the leads to connect my iPod to my stereo if I want.

I'm not really an audiophile either, but - whether by fluke or otherwise - I've been incredibly happy with the richness and depth of sound my present rather messy set-up has been giving me.  It does seem insane (and expensive) to copy vinyl to special CD Recorder CDRs, then convert them to mp3s, though.  One step there could have been removed ages ago, I'd say, but once I've found a system which produces good results for me I get very reluctant to change what I do.  There's been a lovely, bassy depth to the results, but I was told by the person I bought my turntable from that this is exactly what the product is known for, so hopefully as long as I don't remove that from the equation I'll still be OK. 

Still, I'm not optimistic that the solution could be ever so simple - it never is, is it? - so I've no doubt I'll be revisiting advice on this thread in the weeks to come.  Please do keep it coming if anyone has anything to add.

mcbpete

You'll be fine .... Not sure quite how electrically noisy internal Mac soundcards are (is it a laptop or a desktop ?) as that may be your only stumbling block. I've got an external soundcard that my turntable pre-amp is connected to, but that's only because my lappy's line-in is so badly isolated from the rest of the motherboard that anything I record sounds like tiny robots having an argument in the background.

I accept the terms of the

Throwing £3 at it first to see if it's good enough is certainly a sensible idea.

23 Daves

Quote from: mcbpete on September 18, 2011, 11:22:57 PM
You'll be fine .... Not sure quite how electrically noisy internal Mac soundcards are (is it a laptop or a desktop ?) as that may be your only stumbling block. I've got an external soundcard that my turntable pre-amp is connected to, but that's only because my lappy's line-in is so badly isolated from the rest of the motherboard that anything I record sounds like tiny robots having an argument in the background.

It's a laptop.  I'm guessing that means there will be more noise issues rather than less?

I accept the terms of the

It probably means that the sound card will be at best "just about good enough" for this.

mcbpete

Quote from: 23 Daves on September 18, 2011, 11:38:08 PM
It's a laptop.  I'm guessing that means there will be more noise issues rather than less?
Yeah it'll be noisier given the close proximity of everything (again Mac laptops may have better isolation than PC ones). You may be absolutely fine though and that the noise floor isn't high enough to bother you, I thought I'd just flag it though in case you hear weird electrical chirpy noises in your recordings and wonder where they're coming from !

Quote from: 23 Daves on September 18, 2011, 09:10:31 PM
this Mac is living on borrowed time as well, so I'm not mad keen on investing on a new sound card for it when I suspect it may very well die in about six months 

How about a USB soundcard that you can easily use in a new PC or Mac?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Griffin-GC16031-Quality-Recording-Playback/dp/B000BVV2IC/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1316436274&sr=1-1

(dunno how to add CaB referral link)


23 Daves

Quote from: Steve Lampkins on September 19, 2011, 01:45:43 PM
How about a USB soundcard that you can easily use in a new PC or Mac?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Griffin-GC16031-Quality-Recording-Playback/dp/B000BVV2IC/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1316436274&sr=1-1

(dunno how to add CaB referral link)

Good idea, sir.  I'll see how we get on with the cable, and if all else fails I'll get one of these - which seems like the cheapest of all options. 

Paaaaul

I got a Tevion USB turntable the other day which I'm quite happy with - £25 at Aldi

I've uploaded two versions of one song, one is an official download of the track, and the other is one I ripped from 7" so you can compare. The vinyl is probably recorded at too high a volume, but you can get a decent idea about dynamics and sound quality.

2 x Stage Shoes

chocky909

Those cheap USB turntables can usually make a decent recording but often damage your records in the process, same as any cheap turntable and cartridge.

I got myself a Pro-Ject Debut III USB turntable and it's pretty good and I can trust it'll leave any valuable vinyl undamaged.

Paaaaul

Quote from: chocky909 on September 19, 2011, 07:50:05 PM
Those cheap USB turntables can usually make a decent recording but often damage your records in the process, same as any cheap turntable and cartridge.

I got myself a Pro-Ject Debut III USB turntable and it's pretty good and I can trust it'll leave any valuable vinyl undamaged.

Yep - that's a point, but I don't intend to play anything on it more than once. It's just to digitise stuff I've got that I can't get on CD.

I accept the terms of the

You probably want to do it with a turntable that at least vaguely moves the needle the way the record wants it to, though.


23 Daves

Quote from: Paaaaul on September 19, 2011, 07:38:21 PM
I got a Tevion USB turntable the other day which I'm quite happy with - £25 at Aldi

I've uploaded two versions of one song, one is an official download of the track, and the other is one I ripped from 7" so you can compare. The vinyl is probably recorded at too high a volume, but you can get a decent idea about dynamics and sound quality.

2 x Stage Shoes

Thanks - this is something to think about.  I will say that the vinyl rip you've done there sounds of a lower quality than the ones I'm used to, particularly in terms of bass reproduction.  Whether it's of such a significantly lower quality that I'd reject the idea out of hand is another question, especially when things can be tweaked on Audacity.

Quote from: I accept the terms of the on September 19, 2011, 09:08:11 PM
You probably want to do it with a turntable that at least vaguely moves the needle the way the record wants it to, though.

Now now, there's no need to fight about this.  This is a valid point, though.  I will occasionally be ripping sixties vinyl that's scarce and the groove walls may already be delicate due to the aging process[nb]At least, this is what I've been told before now by people in the know about cheap styli.  I have to admit I'm not actually sure how much of a risk it poses.[/nb] - so even if it's a one play only job, it might still reduce the sound quality ever so slightly. 

momatt

Uuuurrgh, forget USB turntables.  Cheap nasty rubbish.

I just connect my usual turntable through a preamp and record it using Garageband.  That makes it very easy to edit it and do a little EQing if needed.

Marty McFly

This is the best piece of software I've ever used for 'restoring' vinyl transfers..

http://www.clickrepair.net/clicks_crackle.html

Highly, highly recommended. That and Sound Studio for the Mac are all I need to use.

rudi

Where do you all find the time?? The sheer enormity of the task is the major sticking point in me getting started on it...

mcbpete

Well not starting it ain't gonna get it done any quicker !

23 Daves

Quote from: rudi on September 21, 2011, 12:16:57 AM
Where do you all find the time?? The sheer enormity of the task is the major sticking point in me getting started on it...

It's not that bad!  And for particularly scratched up records I sometimes just give up entirely.  No amount of software can completely cover up the noise on a record that's graded as GOOD or VG-, not without wiping half the music in the process as well.

rudi

Quote from: mcbpete on September 21, 2011, 11:42:57 AM
Well not starting it ain't gonna get it done any quicker !

I know, I know. I hate myself. :-(

And now I've just bought a house where the music room will be on the second floor so am looking at moving however many fecking thousand little bastards. I said never again last time; this time I mean it...

Quote from: rudi on September 21, 2011, 12:16:57 AM
Where do you all find the time??

The annoying thing is making sure you get the format right. I bought my last CD probably 6-7 years ago, then ripped them all to MP3. At the time, it was common to just use a fixed bit rate, but not too high to save space. Of course I have plenty of space, and would have preferred to have ripped higher than 180 or whatever it was.

Now I would do it in a variable bit rate, v0 or something (still not quite got the space or desire for lossless FLACs). I still have the CDs in wallets, and I didn't actually have so many, but I can't be bothered to rerip. Sometimes I'll replace an album with a downloaded version that uses better compression though.


Not much help for rare vinyl - though what.cd has plenty of vinyl rips, and I understand they have quite high standards.

mcbpete

God I did that with my CD collection, not once but three times -  First at 160kbps, then a couple of years later at 192kbps (for back in the Oink days), and finally at v0 a year after when I found out that'd mean much better quality files at only slightly bigger file size.

I bet I do it again when FLACs (or equivalent lossless) become the accepted norm for portable media players (my phone plays them now but I can't even fit 1/4 of my music collection on my 32gb card at v0, plus I can't notice the difference in sound quality between v0 mp3s and FLACs)

I accept the terms of the

I backed up all my vinyl to FLAC and then stored the data on 152,023 cassette tapes. The loading noise is terrible, but it's worth it to preserve everything for another three years.