What is your musical Holy Grail?

[elderford]

I am interested in what musical gems verbwhores would most like to get their ears on.

It need not necessarily exist, ie. an unrecorded concert, but it would be nice if it actually occurred.

My own is that in 1980 Ian 'Laughing Boy' Curtis of Joy Division was given a mini-tape recorder to jot down melody lines and fragments of lyrics.

After his unfortunate night in with the kitchen drying rack, when the tape recorder was retrieved it had no cassette in it, none have ever been found.

So, my ultimate musical Holy Grail would be to hear those tapes, which probably consist of Curtis reciting shopping lists, but there you go.

...oh and I suppose a video of the 1997 Fall performance in New York when Mark E Smith attacked the rest of the band on stage would be good for a giggle.

[TJ]

In this order...

The studio cuts of various latterday Syd Barrett-era Pink Floyd tracks for which tape boxes exist but no tapes; some of these songs haven't even been *heard* outside Abbey Road in 1967

The Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah Band's "Brain Opera" in full (I would also add the '45 minutes of screaming' that Stanshall claimed he an Innes had recorded when asked for a contract-fulfilling final album, but I have some doubts that it ever actually existed)

The original take of The Monkees' 'Take A Giant Step', featuring a different arrangement and Davy on lead vocals

Nick Drake's two known BBC Radio sessions

McGough and McGear's 'Mahler's Toy Symphony', recorded with Paul McCartney, Jimi Hendrix, Donovan and just about every other hip musician in London at the time playing toy instruments, but unreleased due to some kind of copyright/publishing dispute

Blur's versions of 'Video Killed The Radio Star' and 'For Old Time's Sake' - Damon reputedly erased the master copies of each to prevent bootlegs leaking out


Can we also mention films etc that are vaguely holy grail-like?

[elderford]

Talking of toy instruments:

Kevin Ayers: Joy of a Toy album, was originally presented to Harvest as a full demo version of the entire album recorded using toy instruments, sadly lost.

...as an aside an Ayers song has resurfaced recently with Syd Barrett on it, just playing guitar I believe, Ayers has recently commented that Syd was a little out of sorts during the recording process.

While I'm at it:

Velvet Underground: Sister Ray live including Cale.
there was one, Cale had it, lent it to Reed who later claimed to have accidentally recorded over it.

[TJ]

Kevin Ayers: Joy of a Toy album, was originally presented to Harvest as a full demo version of the entire album recorded using toy instruments, sadly lost.

Wonder if anyone has ever asked Harvest label head Malcolm Jones' relatives? By all accounts, he was a bit of a tape hoarder.

...as an aside an Ayers song has resurfaced recently with Syd Barrett on it, just playing guitar I believe, Ayers has recently commented that Syd was a little out of sorts during the recording process.

That would be 'A Religious Experience' (an early version of 'Singing A Song In The Morning') - people have always gone on about how 'out to lunch' and generally tuneless, formless and mistimed his guitar playing on that is, but it sounds alright to me.

Velvet Underground: Sister Ray live including Cale.
there was one, Cale had it, lent it to Reed who later claimed to have accidentally recorded over it.

*explodes*

[Neville Chamberlain]

A new Cardiacs album would be nice. Or Monsoon Bassoon.

Having said that, a real Holy Grail would be an album by the extremely short-lived Panixphere, a band that comprised members of Cardiacs and Levitation and were, apparently, phenomenally, mind-bendingly brilliant. Some recordings do allegedly exist, but they seem to be near-impossible to get hold of...

[Jemble Fred]

I'd like to hear whatever Paul McCartney's got hidden under a loose stone in his patio, waiting for release five years after he dies. Probably including a few recordings from Lennon's flat in the late seventies. He's got a few things up his sleeve, we'll just have to wait for him to die before we can roll them up and steal them from his lifeless corpse.

Sorry, I didn't intend that to become so unsavoury.

[The Culture Bunker]

...oh and I suppose a video of the 1997 Fall performance in New York when Mark E Smith attacked the rest of the band on stage would be good for a giggle.

Though I'm not a huge Fall fan, I remember reading about a time where Smith had sacked the keyboard player hours before a gig. On stage, he told the crowd that they had no keyboard player but that:

"He... (the bassist, Marc Riley) is going to sing all the keyboard parts."

Riley wasn't sure if this was a joke, so spent the whole gig making various sounds into a mic. Not sure if this is true or not, but I'd love to hear a tape of it.

Having just interviewed the fellow, I'm on a huge Paul Simpson trip at the moment, so my current musical holy grails would be a copy of the Teardrop Explodes "Sleeping Gas" single. Or any of the Wild Swans studio albums or the stuff he did with Ian Broudie as Care.

[boki]

A new Cardiacs album would be nice. Or Monsoon Bassoon.

Having said that, a real Holy Grail would be an album by the extremely short-lived Panixphere, a band that comprised members of Cardiacs and Levitation and were, apparently, phenomenally, mind-bendingly brilliant. Some recordings do allegedly exist, but they seem to be near-impossible to get hold of...

There's three live tracks here for your mentalling-about-the-place pleasure.  They only ever did a handful of gigs, didn't they?  I think Bic keeps himself very busy as a session player these days, so I dunno how likely it is that it'll happen again - hope so, though, cos it was just before my time (or should that be pond-life?).

[SnapperOrgans]

The best musical experience of my life was De La Soul followed by Parliament at the essential festival. I was watching De La Soul do 'me myself and I' with parliament actually playing the sample in the background for god's sake. If a recording exists of that concert I would chew through walls made out of my family members to get at it.

[Neville Chamberlain]

Thanks for that, Boki. I'll give them a listen as soon as my colleagues have buggered off.

[Pilf]

I've got a nearly complete live bootleg of one of one of the few Panixphere gigs, which is absolutely amazing. A few Cardiacs tracks thrown in thrash metal pronk style, and a request from Jon to do Supper's Ready.

Haven't got the technology to convert it/upload it to MP3 or anything but would be willing to do swapsies or copies.

[Neville Chamberlain]

...and a request from Jon to do Supper's Ready.

What's that?

[Pilf]

It's an old classic Genesis 20minute+ prog epic. Rather sadly, I do wish they'd done it.

[Jemble Fred]

I've got a nearly complete live bootleg of one of one of the few Panixphere gigs, which is absolutely amazing. A few Cardiacs tracks thrown in thrash metal pronk style, and a request from Jon to do Supper's Ready.

That's far better than the 'typical unbelievably obscure muso style gobbledegook' examples I invent to illustrate the kind of nonsense you read in Stereo Excursions. Nearly choked. Does that really mean something to you, Pilf old boy?

[Almost Yearly]

I can only see one word there you might legitimately have problems with. Pronk is the accepted term for prog / punk crossover.


I say, that To Go Off And Things is a bit .. isn't it.

[Jemble Fred]

It's not words, it's the whole paragraph. And I feel the need to add that I'm genuinely amused by it, I'm definitely not having a go – it's tricky to make this stuff up, so it's such a joy to see the real thing. Great stuff.

[Pilf]

It's not words, it's the whole paragraph. And I feel the need to add that I'm genuinely amused by it, I'm definitely not having a go – it's tricky to make this stuff up, so it's such a joy to see the real thing. Great stuff.

I'm genuinely chuffed at that, I am geeky muso king ;) I'm sure there are people worse than me here. You're not the first to say that though either, sadly. It was the use of 'thrash metal pronk' and assumption that everyone knew what Supper's Ready was wasn't it?

Anyway, to get back on track, I think my holy grail would be a copy of the Cardiac Arrest single, or the Nick Drake BBC sessions that TJ mentioned above.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Lee Mavers' post-La's recordings. Apparently he's recorded a load of new stuff, although only a few people have actually heard them. Those who have say that the songs are unbelievable, and that one song in particular 'The Human Race', is even better than 'There She Goes'
Sadly, with Mavers seemingly content to live off the royalties of 'There She Goes', going to watch his beloved Everton whilst recording music purely for himself (kind of like Barrett is now with his writing/painting), the chances of ever hearing the new songs is growing slimmer by the day.

[Mrs. E]

Having said that, a real Holy Grail would be an album by the extremely short-lived Panixphere, a band that comprised members of Cardiacs and Levitation and were, apparently, phenomenally, mind-bendingly brilliant. Some recordings do allegedly exist, but they seem to be near-impossible to get hold of...

Jim,  have PM'ed you about Panixphere

[mayer]

a live bootleg of The Streets at Reading a couple of years back.... it was his second ever gig (after Leeds), and i wasn't expecting much live.... but it was one of the best gigs i've ever heard.

i've seen him live twice since, and it was nice.... but not nearly as fantastic. if anyone knows if there's a boot of it about (i'm sure there must be a mixing desk copy about somewhere) i would do any manner of unpleasant things that they ask of me to get a copy.

[A Passing Turk Slipper]

Lee Mavers' post-La's recordings. Apparently he's recorded a load of new stuff, although only a few people have actually heard them. Those who have say that the songs are unbelievable, and that one song in particular 'The Human Race', is even better than 'There She Goes'
Sadly, with Mavers seemingly content to live off the royalties of 'There She Goes', going to watch his beloved Everton whilst recording music purely for himself (kind of like Barrett is now with his writing/painting), the chances of ever hearing the new songs is growing slimmer by the day.

I was going to say the same thing. We must have been reading the same article or something because I read about that Human Race song fairly recently somewhere. Wasn't there a news item a while ago about Mavers being seen with Powers at a few gigs together, and that there was a possibility of a La's reform?

[Lu tze]

Terry Reid: The River, Friends.
Anybody have?

[El Unicornio, mang]

Lee Mavers' post-La's recordings. Apparently he's recorded a load of new stuff, although only a few people have actually heard them. Those who have say that the songs are unbelievable, and that one song in particular 'The Human Race', is even better than 'There She Goes'
Sadly, with Mavers seemingly content to live off the royalties of 'There She Goes', going to watch his beloved Everton whilst recording music purely for himself (kind of like Barrett is now with his writing/painting), the chances of ever hearing the new songs is growing slimmer by the day.

I was going to say the same thing. We must have been reading the same article or something because I read about that Human Race song fairly recently somewhere. Wasn't there a news item a while ago about Mavers being seen with Powers at a few gigs together, and that there was a possibility of a La's reform?

Apparently so, yes. It even got reported on the news page of Billboard.com. It all seems a bit speculative though, Mavers and Power were seen at gigs together but there's no evidence to suggest they're recording. If they do get back together, hopefully it won't be like last time, back in '95 when Mavers reformed The La's to support the likes of Paul Weller and Dodgy, with the result being no new recordings and a handful of shambolic live shows.

It's a shame because Mavers really is a fantastic musical talent, but he's his own worst enemy. The only reason the first (and only) La's album got released was because Go! Discs got sick of Mavers' eccentric demands and perfectionism, and had to put out the songs against his will. If it hadn't been for that, all we'd have is a load of live bootlegs and a couple of singles.

I admire the fact that Mavers is a perfectionist, wants to get it sounding just right, the problem is that he doesn't seem to know where to draw the line. You're never going to get a song to sound exactly like it is in your head, and the more you re-record and remix, the more the song becomes abstract, just a collection of instruments put together, and the more you hate hearing it, which makes you want to keep adding to it, and the cycle goes round and round and you never get anything.

I know exactly how he feels, you don't want to 'waste' a good song, you want it as good as it can be, but the way a musician hears their own music is very different to how an audience hears it. The general audience isn't bothered whether the hi-hat is a tad too trebly, or whether the guitars sound a bit too clean. Mavers strives for total perfection, and that's impossible to achieve. There's loads of songs I think sound perfect, but ask the people who recorded them what they think and they'll likely say 'well, that vocal bit could have been a bit different' or 'those drums are a bit too quiet'

[Z/Sb]

deleted

[Hornet]

A DVD or video of Bootsy Collins' 1977 concert at the (then) Hammersmith Odeon.

Had to put up with Ray Parker Jnr's "Raydio" as support and then 3 minutes into Bootsy's set,  my wife (as then was) screamed that her handbag had been nicked.

Two questions, why the fuck did she bring a handbag to a gig and secondly why did she drag me off to report it to the police at Hammersmith nick?  Like they were really interested.

I fucking loved Bootsy (and I still have the funk).  Missing that gig was like having red hot needles shoved in my eyes.

Bollocks, fucking cunting shit....

[TJ]

Apparently so, yes. It even got reported on the news page of Billboard.com. It all seems a bit speculative though, Mavers and Power were seen at gigs together but there's no evidence to suggest they're recording.

I have no firm knowledge one way or the other on what Mavers and Power are up to (or not), but I can confirm that absolutely *no-one* involved with music around here (ie Liverpool) had been talking about anything resembling rumours of a reformation, and the place is normally abuzz with chatter if anyone from the La's camp is so much as seen leaving WH Smiths. Yes, the news that they'd both been present at one (note, one) gig got around fast, but it wasn't any more than that and nothing more significant was mentioned until the press got hold of it. For that reason, I'm yet to be convinced that this isn't someone putting two and eight together and ending up with nine hundred and forty six...

[morgs]

Call me a sad old prog head (which I am not with one exception) but I would love to hear proper recordings of what Marillion were doing when they were still Silmarillion and Fish hadn't yet joined...

[Goldentony]

the la's wont reform, all the sixties dust has been cleaned off their instruments

[The Region Legion]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned the master tapes that Hendrix left in that taxi cab...

If they actually exist at all, I had heard something about that..

[A Passing Turk Slipper]

What are they then Devlin? I haven't heard of them. Any links to information about them, I like little stories like this.