vent about the decline of your favorite actor, director, key grip, etc.

[yokel]

Inspired by Noodle Lizard's aside about his current loathing of Johnny Depp in the Life's too short thread( much as I respect Warwick for being in the awesome Time Bandits, I wish the show was about Gervais and Too $hort:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Too_$hort, but I digress), I decided that we all could use a place to mope about how our favorites have gone by the way side. I'll start:
Damn it, Tim  Burton, what happened,eh? You used to be so damn good at capturing the dark, fun spirit of horror films from your youth and giving it an empathetic edge; whether it was the tender darkness of Edward Scissorhands or the juvenile  destructive glee of Mars Attacks. Hell, even Big Fish was an interesting turn from you, but then you had to go and get overly lazy; why must you overwork Johnny Depp so much? Doesn't he deserve some relaxation time? Surely you can spend time together in the off season.  Do you even have an off season? If you did, surely you could have taken a few more years to put together your adaption of Charlie and The chocolate factory and Sweeney Todd, making them good. Don't get me wrong, Charlie had tiny, tiny bits of brilliance; Christopher Lee as a dentist, creepy wax dolls melting in a grotesque fashion, Wonka's nonchalant quip about cannibalism, Wonka's brilliant awkward introduction in the film*, the terrifying headgear he had as a child, those were flashes of what you were once made of! Sweeney Todd too lacked the hammer horror melodrama of Sleepy Hollow and just came out all awkward. Couldn't you have gotten three better singers for the leads? And here's another thing I miss about you Tim: how you would manage to get three great performances out of actors in one movie. Think about Beetlejuice, Edward Scissorhands, or Pee Wee's Big Adventure. What do they all have in common?: three  or four great actors giving really good work;You've got Michael Keaton in Beetlejuice obviously, but you also have Catherine O Hara as the pretentious yuppie artist mother, Winona Ryder as a deadpan goth, and Glenn Shadixx as the art critic guy.  Hell, even  the lady playing the receptionist in the afterlife was great! With Edward Scissorhands, you had Depp, of course, but you also had Dianne Wiest and Alan Arkin  brilliantly  playing complete polar opposites. Burton gave everybody a part to play. Nowadays, it's basically just Johnny and Helena phoning it in while others just are there; that was the problem with Charlie and the Chocolate factory. Take a break, for christ's sake and think about where your career is going. And for chrissake's, shave your beard, you're starting to look like Wayne Coyne.
And I'm out.

[Johnny Townmouse]

Nicholas Roeg - what happened to thee?

I won't make this long, as the more I think about it, the more irritated and sad I become. Performance (1970) is one of my favourite films - it may seem a bit shambolic and self-indulgent, but I think it is an incredible feat, and a fantastic of usurping and forever changing a mainstream genre. Walkabout (1971) is a hazy, reflective piece that for me evokes Picnic at Hanging Rock, and whilst it may seem like a step back in terms of innovation, I think it works incredibly well on its own terms. Don't Look Now (1973) is another one of my favourite films that takes a well-worn genre, and picks it apart, utilising some wonderful expressionistic pieces, and letting the audience become unnerved by the lack of exposition, rather than shock tactics.

In many ways, there is little for me to be attracted to in The Man Who Fell to Earth (1976). I'm not into David Bowie at all, and the narrative itself is not that compelling. But Roeg raises it up, creating a film with odd stillness, and surreal moments that seem to come out of nowhere, free from the controlling and leading use of extra-diegetic music.

Then something goes wrong. Does Roeg get hit on the head? Is it because the 70s have ended, when Directors seemed to lose their creative juices, or the freedom to use studio money?

I don't know but  Roeg makes Bad Timing (1980). Sure, it has its appeal, and many people like to defend it. But for me it is the beginning of the end. Or the end of the beginning.

I won't say much more but Roeg's fall from grace becomes so rapid and confusing and sad, that there is a parallel universe in which a version of me is posting on a forum about how great Roeg's career was throughout the 80s and 90s. There is this gulf, a vacuum, a space - on my DVD shelves, and in my head - where Roeg should be. For an example of how tragically awful he became, feel free to check out his TV movie for Heart of Darkness, a dreadful piece of film that looks like it was made by someone fresh off an A Level in film-making.

That ended up being quite long.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Plus Tim Burton's also pals with David Cameron...

[Jemble Fred]

Don't get me wrong, Charlie had tiny, tiny bits of brilliance; Christopher Lee as a dentist... Wonka's brilliant awkward introduction in the film*, the terrifying headgear he had as a child, those were flashes of what you were once made of!

You just highlighted all the reasons why that film is a fucking disgrace to the name. Besides all that, it was pretty good.

Now, his masturbatory Alice, on the other hand...

[Johnny Townmouse]

I'm a huge fan of Gene Wilder's Willy Wonka, but I agree with yokel that the expository back-story scenes really work for me. I think they look great, and give the film an extra layer of the sinister. I actually thought the resolution of Wonka and his father really improved the source material.

[holyzombiejesus]

The quality of Lukas Moodysson's films took a real nosedive after Together. I know a lot of people on here have mentioned their admiration for Lilya 4-ever but I found it manipulative, shlocky, schmaltzy nonsense. Then came the ridiculously desperate A Hole In My Heart, followed by the unfathomable Container. I have to admit to not seeing Mammoth yet.

Hal Hartley seemed to take a massive tumble from being the darling of the Sundance crowd to direct to video no-mark around the time of Henry Fool/ Book Of Life.

[Small Man Big Horse]

The quality of Lukas Moodysson's films took a real nosedive after Together. I know a lot of people on here have mentioned their admiration for Lilya 4-ever but I found it manipulative, shlocky, schmaltzy nonsense. Then came the ridiculously desperate A Hole In My Heart, followed by the unfathomable Container. I have to admit to not seeing Mammoth yet.

Hal Hartley seemed to take a massive tumble from being the darling of the Sundance crowd to direct to video no-mark around the time of Henry Fool/ Book Of Life.

I did appreciate Lilya 4-Ever, but apart from that I agree with you completely. There was such warmth and spirit to his first few films, which is sadly lacking from his most recent output (though like you I haven't seen Mammoth either). And yeah, I used to love Hal Hartley too, Simple Men and Amateur especially, yet his later work seems mostly humourless, and uninvolving as well.

I'd nominate Johnny Cusack. I loved his teen comedies, and his initial move in to more serious affairs like The Grifters convinced me he had a glittering career ahead of him. And I had no problem with the odd Hollywood film if it meant he could also do things like Grosse Pointe Blank and Max, but over the last eight years or so he's made a right load of old shite.

[yokel]

Plus Tim Burton's also pals with David Cameron...

How the hell does that happen? Papers say Helena's a friend of Nick Clegg, but that's just weird. Least it was late in the year and not in January 2010 when Cameron was harping about immigrants and the like.

In many ways, there is little for me to be attracted to in The Man Who Fell to Earth (1976). I'm not into David Bowie at all, and the narrative itself is not that compelling. But Roeg raises it up, creating a film with odd stillness, and surreal moments that seem to come out of nowhere, free from the controlling and leading use of extra-diegetic music

Really? I've always wanted to see the Man who fell to Earth because of my love for Bowie. Walkabout was really excellent though and I still need to see  Don't look now.

[Noodle Lizard]

I'm going to be honest with you all: Christopher Nolan.

I know he's doing better than ever in almost every sense (critically, financially and reputation-wise), but I think the quality of his work has plummeted over the years.  I think his brother must have had a lot more to do with the great storytelling of Memento and The Prestige, as when he works alone he suffers from bad pacing, bad characters and shameless exposition.  I didn't hate the Batman films, although especially with The Dark Knight I think it was only saved by one or two great performances, but they're not a patch on Memento or even Insomnia, for that matter.  As for Inception, a lot of it may as well have just been replaced by a static shot of Christopher Nolan explaining his ideas to the audience, and I think it's easily one of the most overrated films of the decade so far.  I genuinely can't comprehend why everyone thought it was so breath-taking and clever.  But at least he's pulled his brother back in to help write the next Batman film, so there may be hope.

While I'm at it, here's another one: Christian Bale.

Similarly to Johnny Depp, he was one of my favourite actors of the last couple of decades.  I thought he was extremely diverse and his dedication to the roles were unmatched at the time.  Both he and Depp had the ability to make otherwise tedious films watchable.  But he's really given up hasn't he?  Once he really hit it big with Batman, he's been pretty fucking dull, and it came to a head with Public Enemies - both disappointing actors giving disappointing performances in a disappointing film together!  Even in his Oscar-winning performance in The Fighter it seemed like he was going through the motions, to me.  I'm trying to forget Terminator Salvation for my own sanity.

Another one:  Colin Farrell

This is an odd one because he started off pretty badly: Phone Booth, Daredevil, SWAT (but with the notable exception of the hugely underrated Intermission), and then after the colossal failures that were Miami Vice and Alexander, he seemed to get his act together a bit.  I always liked him and thought he was a decent enough actor who just made bad choices, and he seemed fairly genuine in interviews, so I was very happy when he turned up in the excellent In Bruges, as well as Triage and Ondine, and thought he was set to reinvent himself after a bad start and become someone seriously worth taking note of.  But, sadly, it didn't last.  Recent credits include Horrible Bosses and the Fright Night remake, as well as the doomed upcoming Total Recall remake, and I doubt it will get any better from there on in.  Oh well.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Farrell first drew attention in Tigerland, for which he was highly praised, as I recall. It obviously didn't register with many people though, as everyone that I've ever shown In Bruges to have a hard time believing that he could possibly be any good, let alone as brilliant as he was. I think I said at the time that it's a more impressive performance than the honey roast ham that is Daniel Day Lewis' in There Will Be Blood.

Bale should do something funny, like American Psycho, again. Maybe work with the Coen Brothers. Even without the Terminator rant, he just seems so humourless these days. Harsh Times is the last truly great performance of his that I can think of and, not coincidentally it mixed a little light in with the darkness.

Speaking of humourless, what happened to Harrison Ford?

[yokel]

I'm going to be honest with you all: Christopher Nolan.

I know he's doing better than ever in almost every sense (critically, financially and reputation-wise), but I think the quality of his work has plummeted over the years.  I think his brother must have had a lot more to do with the great storytelling of Memento and The Prestige, as when he works alone he suffers from bad pacing, bad characters and shameless exposition.  I didn't hate the Batman films, although especially with The Dark Knight I think it was only saved by one or two great performances, but they're not a patch on Memento or even Insomnia, for that matter.  As for Inception, a lot of it may as well have just been replaced by a static shot of Christopher Nolan explaining his ideas to the audience, and I think it's easily one of the most overrated films of the decade so far.  I genuinely can't comprehend why everyone thought it was so breath-taking and clever.  But at least he's pulled his brother back in to help write the next Batman film, so there may be hope.

While I'm at it, here's another one: Christian Bale.

Similarly to Johnny Depp, he was one of my favourite actors of the last couple of decades.  I thought he was extremely diverse and his dedication to the roles were unmatched at the time.  Both he and Depp had the ability to make otherwise tedious films watchable.  But he's really given up hasn't he?  Once he really hit it big with Batman, he's been pretty fucking dull, and it came to a head with Public Enemies - both disappointing actors giving disappointing performances in a disappointing film together!  Even in his Oscar-winning performance in The Fighter it seemed like he was going through the motions, to me.  I'm trying to forget Terminator Salvation for my own sanity.

Another one:  Colin Farrell

This is an odd one because he started off pretty badly: Phone Booth, Daredevil, SWAT (but with the notable exception of the hugely underrated Intermission), and then after the colossal failures that were Miami Vice and Alexander, he seemed to get his act together a bit.  I always liked him and thought he was a decent enough actor who just made bad choices, and he seemed fairly genuine in interviews, so I was very happy when he turned up in the excellent In Bruges, as well as Triage and Ondine, and thought he was set to reinvent himself after a bad start and become someone seriously worth taking note of.  But, sadly, it didn't last.  Recent credits include Horrible Bosses and the Fright Night remake, as well as the doomed upcoming Total Recall remake, and I doubt it will get any better from there on in.  Oh well.

I really liked The Dark Knight and couldn't care less about Inception, even when the trailer came out, it just didn't sound interesting to me and the line between reality and fantasy had already been better explored in Gilliam's Brazil and even Calvin and Hobbes.
Also, I quibble with your quibble of Depp calling Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, a flop because technically it was pretty much panned when it came out.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Edward Norton looked like he could be the "new De Niro" after American History X, Primal Fear and Fight Club, but since then it's been a steady stream of mediocre. And speaking of De Niro, I think Casino was his last truly great performance.

[Noodle Lizard]

Also, I quibble with your quibble of Depp calling Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, a flop because technically it was pretty much panned when it came out.

Well, since when have the critics' opinions mattered to an outlaw with a hat collection?

Regardless of how much it may have been critically panned, it's easily one of his best performances (far exceeding Bill Murray's portrayal of Thompson) and is incredibly faithful to the source material, and is now (quite rightly) a cult classic.  If he considers that to be more of a failure than "Pirates Of The Caribbean 4: Jack Sparrow's Morning Wood", then I think I'm quite justified in my quibble!

[Noodle Lizard]

Edward Norton looked like he could be the "new De Niro" after American History X, Primal Fear and Fight Club, but since then it's been a steady stream of mediocre. And speaking of De Niro, I think Casino was his last truly great performance.

Absolutely (on both counts).  I was thinking about Edward Norton earlier, what on earth happened?  The 25th Hour is another fantastic performance from him:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-O382Xi7U4

[El Unicornio, mang]

Yep, forgot to mention 25th Hour, very good performance. I thought he was good in The Score too, although most people didn't seem to like the film much.

[Famous Mortimer]

I disagree about Christopher Nolan, but this debate's been had here before (the "Inception" thread goes into a bit of detail). I think he's probably about as good a director as is working at the moment.

[Noodle Lizard]

I disagree about Christopher Nolan, but this debate's been had here before (the "Inception" thread goes into a bit of detail). I think he's probably about as good a director as is working at the moment.

Yeah, I agree.  Which makes it all the more clear to me that there really aren't many great directors still working.

[garbed_attic]

Thora Birch

I remember, when I was about 14, Ghost World had come out on vhs and as I stood in a Blockbusters gazing up at the cover, I was momentarily transfixed by Thora Birch on the cover. Scarlett Johansson's Rebecca just looks confused, but Enid looks confident and stocky; her pale face inscrutable. Watching the film I was transfixed and it must have been one of the primary reasons I discovered comics, after a few years of having my attentions shift to literature and away from the Beano, Tintin and Asterix. As a character, Enid is relatable yet otherworldly, which I think is something that Thora brings to her roles. She has a matter-of-fact approach to acting, which feels unembellished and affectless, but also her flat voice and pale face, make her seem distanced and slightly ironic. This means that the sequences in which she shows emotion (when Enid listens to a record she loved as a child and cries) they stand out all the more. There's a weird ambiguity in the way she acts, as if she's always keeping somethign from the screen. In The Hole it means you're genuinely kept from knowing whether she's a victim or a villain, or some combination of the both. In American Beauty she starts the film seeming hard-nosed and you're brought to the realisation that she's just a high-schooler, without any murderous intents.

Those three films are of different qualities, but Thora Birch is a really interesting presence in all of them and I had assumed that she would go on to reach the levels of success of her co-star Scarlett Johansson, but not so! Possibly due to the fact that she seems to be a slightly difficult, prickly sort of fellow (or due to having a bad agent or a dad who causes trouble for her career) she's mostly starred in grim-looking horror films since and has not been in very much over the last few years. She's an interesting actor and awkward and quietly confrontational in a way I suspect it is not deemed useful for actresses to be. I hope things pick up for her (she has a law degree, so I guess she could become a lawyer or legal clerk if things don't work out!)

[Noodle Lizard]

Thora Birch

Another one I was thinking about the other day.

But she hasn't really declined artistically, nor has she ever given a bad performance as far as I know, she just sort of ... disappeared.  It's quite common with actors who achieved fame in their teens or childhood, she probably wants to do other things now.

[yokel]

Well, since when have the critics' opinions mattered to an outlaw with a hat collection?

Regardless of how much it may have been critically panned, it's easily one of his best performances (far exceeding Bill Murray's portrayal of Thompson) and is incredibly faithful to the source material, and is now (quite rightly) a cult classic.  If he considers that to be more of a failure than "Pirates Of The Caribbean 4: Jack Sparrow's Morning Wood", then I think I'm quite justified in my quibble!

Oh I agree it's a great performance, but I don't think Depp meant flop in the manner that you think he meant it, I think he was referring to how it was considered a flop by critics and the like.  I bet he's fond of it what with Hunter being a friend and all.
As for Thora Birch, you're forgetting her sad, but great role in The Ice Storm, a very underrated, sad movie with good performances by all. I especially like Kevin Kline's character getting all neurotic about his golf swing when in bed with his wife.

[confettiinmyhair]

Farrell first drew attention in Tigerland, for which he was highly praised, as I recall. It obviously didn't register with many people though, as everyone that I've ever shown In Bruges to have a hard time believing that he could possibly be any good, let alone as brilliant as he was. I think I said at the time that it's a more impressive performance than the honey roast ham that is Daniel Day Lewis' in There Will Be Blood.

Surely Tigerland must be judged in comparison to Hart's War, another war film Farrell co-starred in with Bruce Willis. Farrell actually falls into a trap of a talented actor, accepting every script that comes his way. I dread to think who represents or advises him. I've seen him stink out a number of films - S.W.A.T., Ask The Dust, The New World (feat. Christian Bale), Daredevil and Pride and Glory. Yet, as pointed out, he's also been superb in a several films obviously including In Bruges.

I have a confession. I enjoyed Miami Vice.

[garbed_attic]

As for Thora Birch, you're forgetting her sad, but great role in The Ice Storm, a very underrated, sad movie with good performances by all. I especially like Kevin Kline's character getting all neurotic about his golf swing when in bed with his wife.

Great film, but that's Christina Ricci, I think - they were both child actors though and look pretty similar so an easy mistake! I think Thora's got the greater degree of sass though!

[yokel]

Great film, but that's Christina Ricci, I think - they were both child actors though and look pretty similar so an easy mistake! I think Thora's got the greater degree of sass though!

Doh! I shoulda known! I think it's the hair length that confused me. oops. heh.

[Phil_A]

And speaking of De Niro, I think Casino was his last truly great performance.

I suspect De Niro, like Harrison Ford, knows his best years are behind him, and is now just coasting along, taking it easy until he can retire. Although if I were him I would've called it a day after his appearance in Stardust, blimey that was embarrasing.

[Noodle Lizard]

I suspect De Niro, like Harrison Ford, knows his best years are behind him, and is now just coasting along, taking it easy until he can retire. Although if I were him I would've called it a day after his appearance in Stardust, blimey that was embarrasing.

Absolutely.  And while it pains me to see him cropping up in films alongside 50 Cent, I don't really blame him because he doesn't really pretend that he's doing it for any other reason.  The reason I have a problem with Johnny Depp fucking up like this is that he's still pretending that he's just this misunderstood and unloved arthouse guy who just loves movie magic and that he believes these are the best films of his career.

And I don't think he's "earned" it as much as De Niro, he never quite had his Raging Bull.

[Nobody Soup]

I thought bale was really good in the fighter but anyway. also, with Depp, well, I would probably still go gay for him even just for that story about turning up at that kids school as jack sparrow, that was adorable, but I can definitely see where people are coming from.

I'm just not digging the new wise cracking, mr confident, making Tony Stark my career defining role, Robert Downey Jnr. I used to think he was great, I liked Chaplin enough to declare him one of my favourite actors and he was always playing quite cool supporting parts. Iron man was forgiveable, Sherlock less so and then appearing in every single film for the next 3 years as one or the other is just too much.

I suppose I should feel good for him because he's not a druggy and he's now an A-lister but maaaan.

[SavageHedgehog]

I agree with you there; not sure I could reel off a list of absolute favourite Downey performances, but Chaplin is certainly a belter and he definitely had a certain something. I liked him in Tropic Thunder but his other comeback performances have left me cold. The Iron Man stuff I supposed I kind of get, despite not enjoying it much personally, but his Holmes just seemed like smug Roger Moore/Pierce Brosnan-style foppery with an added "will this do?" wink but no charm. Even given my completely lack of interest in awards, I really can't see why he was given any for that one. When even Jude Law is more entertaining in the same film, I'm really not impressed.

[Noodle Lizard]

I agree with you there; not sure I could reel off a list of absolute favourite Downey performances, but Chaplin is certainly a belter and he definitely had a certain something. I liked him in Tropic Thunder but his other comeback performances have left me cold. The Iron Man stuff I supposed I kind of get, despite not enjoying it much personally, but his Holmes just seemed like smug Roger Moore/Pierce Brosnan-style foppery with an added "will this do?" wink but no charm. Even given my completely lack of interest in awards, I really can't see why he was given any for that one. When even Jude Law is more entertaining in the same film, I'm really not impressed.

He was good in Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang too.  But yeah, like most reformed drug addicts/alcoholics, he's become mediocre.

[Johnny Townmouse]

I thought his comment that Gervais' gentle ribbing of some celebrities at the Golden Globes were "hugely mean-spirited with mildly sinister undertones" made him look like a total cunt. I find his affected naturalistic style of acting to be completely irritating.

[Cohaagen]

Jim Cameron favourite Michael Biehn was one of the notable faces of 80s/early 90s movies, mostly science-fiction or action, but has done little of note lately. I gather that this is at least partly due to him enjoying and pursuing things other than acting, but there's no question that he fell out of casting favour despite having strong roles in two of the greatest 1980s sci-fi hits, The Terminator and Aliens. He was also great as Johnny Ringo in Tombstone - that very well-written saloon scene with Val Kilmer as Doc Holliday is performed brilliantly by both of them.

There used to be a video of Biehn on YouTube where he gave his take on the Christian Bale "trash your fuckin' lights" recording. The uploader had simply spotted him in the street talking to someone on his phone, yet Biehn took about ten minutes out to speak sensibly and eloquently on that stupid affair despite being more or less buttonholed by a tactless, street-level pap. While it's amusing to hear about the bastards and ego monsters in Hollywood, there is an equal and converse satisfaction in discovering genuine nice guys.

Also, it goes without saying that Bill Paxton is wasted on TV rubbish like Big Love. I don't really care about the obvious and mostly dull convolutions caused by the practising of polygamy in 21st century America. He really needs to be flying around space, complaining constantly and chickening out of firefights, or playing awful but ultimately loveable assholes back here on planet Earth.