Bond 23

[Neomod]

Interesting that Albert Finney is also apparently in this. I've grumbled on other forums about how he's forgotten by twelve-year-old audiences, perhaps because he doesn't do geek stuff: contemporary critics and interviews show that, in the 60's, he was the actor viewed as spearheading a new working-class presence, but today it all gets reduced to Connery and Sir Maurice Bleedin' Micklewhite.

Mendes should have gone the whole hog and cast Tom Courtenay, Rita Tushingham and Murray Melvin as well.

[Jake Thingray]

Don't forget Dudley Sutton! (I'd actually go and see it if it had those sorts of people in it.)

Bad Ambassador -- I mention "the good old days" because knowing and writing about such matters is my job.

[The Roofdog]

If you think that Albert Finney has been forgotten by contemporary audiences then maybe you should get another job. But you don't really think that do you, it was just the only way you could think of to get in another tedious sci-fi dig.

[SavageHedgehog]

In fairness the general response to his casting that I've seen online suggests that a certain portion of the audience only seem to know him from the Bourne film, and in particular know him for pronouncing "Jason" in a "funny accent".

[CaledonianGonzo]

I think most people would agree that Finney's Danny Boy scene in Miller's Crossing is about as popular a slice of modern(ish) geek-bait as you can think of.

[Bad Ambassador]

Bad Ambassador -- I mention "the good old days" because knowing and writing about such matters is my job.

Is that why you shoehorn the subject into every subject you discuss?

[Mister Six]

Well - I suspect you might be disappointed, as with that cast and Mendes' stated intention that he wants to win an Oscar for it, it's looking far more likely to be relatively understated in the vein of Casino Royale, as opposed to surfing on CGI tidal waves, etc.

That'll do me. I loved that Casino Royale was pretty much an old-school, gritty spy flick but with some stunning stunts every 10 minutes (including the opening parkour sequence, which was by far the best action scene in any Bond film thus far). QoS, on the other hand, was just a shitty, plotless Roger Moore flick but without any of the campness or tongue-in-cheek fun that made those films bearable. The plot was so lacking that they clearly just tacked on the subplot about Olga Kurylenko's revenge mission to give it any kind of emotional heft at all.

EDIT: Actually, the opera bit was good.

[biggytitbo]

The plot was so lacking that they clearly just tacked on the subplot about Olga Kurylenko's revenge mission to give it any kind of emotional heft at all.

Surely the entire film is about revenge? Olga is intended to be a mirror image of Bond's own thirst for reprisal and is thus integral to the plot. Their relationship is one of the best, well probably the only, really strong emotional relationship Bond ever has with the Bond girl.

[Mister Six]

Surely the entire film is about revenge? Olga is intended to be a mirror image of Bond's own thirst for reprisal and is thus integral to the plot. Their relationship is one of the best, well probably the only, really strong emotional relationship Bond ever has with the Bond girl.

She's integral to the theme, but not the plot. You could take her out without really changing anything. I'm pretty sure they looked at the finished script, realised that Bond doesn't actually have any kind of character arc and, realising that rewriting all his scenes would bugger up the entire film, stuck her in to give some sense of development and progress in the film. Bond's actual development in the film is more implied by hers than really present in the script.

[CaledonianGonzo]

I don't know, really - Bond certainly has more of a character arc in QoS than in any of the preceding 21 movies.  It's got a fair number of what could be termed - for better or worse - character scenes.  You see him pissed, mopey and sentimental for the first time since the end of OHMSS and there's a definite narrative throughline that concludes with the Russian scenes that postscript the main movie.

I'd agree that Olga's not really essential to the plot, but again you're on shaky ground if you want to argue the case that the Bond girl really is any of the previous movies,  Casino Royale, From Russia With Love and (maybe) The Spy Who Loved Me aside.  Ummm...and maybe For Your Eyes Only.


^{I'm almost embarrassed I know so much about these movies}

[Jake Thingray]

In fairness the general response to his casting that I've seen online suggests that a certain portion of the audience only seem to know him from the Bourne film, and in particular know him for pronouncing "Jason" in a "funny accent".

That's disappointing, but not surprising. Roofdog and Ambassador -- I have an article in today's Independent, and had one in the Times the day before yesterday, so despite your whingeing and sneering tags, preferring the film and television of previous decades to today's 'franchise' sci-fi fantasy gubbins is doing me okay.

[Saucer51]

I've always loved the escapist absurdity of the Bond movies but most of them for me are beyond proper critical review as they've been there since childhood. The first one I saw as an adult has to be Goldeneye and it felt like a really sleek and polished film, although the subsequent Brosnan ones were let downs. Then Casino Royale brought about a nice change again and I supposed I'm biased in that I love Daniel Craig as the latest incarnation but not quite blinkered enough to admit that I dislike Quantum of Solace. I once tinkered around with writing a Bond screenplay. Yes it stank to high heaven but a more talented and imaginative writer could probably have great fun with that recognisable formula - megalomania, world in jeopardy, exotic climes, 2 or 3 female conquests only 1 survives, gadgets, out of the ordinary henchmen. I wasn't a fan of the otherwise talented Sebastian Faulk's Devil May Care. Set in the 1960's, it felt like he was trying too hard to recapture the golden age of the Bond franchise, it felt like an episode of The Avengers to me. But then I loved the schlocky nonsense of a View To A Kill whilst the critics crazily pan it. Maybe the French setting did it for me.
But this latest film looks interesting. I'm hoping the new Moneypenny will be slinky and quick-witted and will Javier Bardem be the villain? Minus the Chigurgh hair please.
Bond films are wise enough to change with the times. Remember that scene in Goldeneye:
Brosnan Bond to Sean Bean: "Buy me a pint"
Sean Connery's Bond would never have said that in the 1960's. But how could a secret agent continue to look rugged if he asked another man to buy him a Martini?

[Jean-Luc Prickhard]

I've grumbled on other forums about how he's forgotten by twelve-year-old audiences

Hey, feel free to visit those forums more often. You could even stop coming here altogether, see how that feels.

And presumably you're not this big a bell-end when you write for those newspapers?

[Jake Thingray]

Another example of how open-minded and inclusive sci-fi geeks are, with anyone who's not part of their little clique.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Don't worry, Jake - James Bond geeks aren't any better.

[Bad Ambassador]

Another example of how open-minded and inclusive sci-fi geeks are, with anyone who's not part of their little clique.

It might have more to do with your incoherent arguments (12-year-olds not having heard of Albert Finney? Sacrilege!), petty martyrdom and childish, bitter whining whenever anyone raises a subject you don't like. This makes it very easy to wind you up, which is why people do it, myself included.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. You clearly have mental health problems and should talk to your GP. It will make your life a lot easier, honestly.

[Bad Ambassador]

Anyway, apparently Fiennes and Wishaw are playing characters whose names are a giveaway. Since onset pictures show Rory Kinnear back as Bill Tanner, can we assume they'll be Q and his assistant Smithers?

[Ignatius_S]

Anyway, apparently Fiennes and Wishaw are playing characters whose names are a giveaway. Since onset pictures show Rory Kinnear back as Bill Tanner, can we assume they'll be Q and his assistant Smithers?

Is that a joke?

[CaledonianGonzo]

Q and Blofeld would be the two obvious ones - or maybe Sir Miles Messervy.

[Jemble Fred]

I've been waiting to see a 21st century Blofeld for so long. But if Voldemort plays him, then Fiennes has a better sense of humour than I've ever given him credit for...

[mycroft]

When are they going to replace Dench as M, that's what I want to know.

[Ignatius_S]

Q and Blofeld would be the two obvious ones - or maybe Sir Miles Messervy.

There's been quite a bit of talk about Wishaw becoming the new Q - that one I can see.

With Fiennes though, I think it was something like March, where it had been reported he had definitely signed up to do this Bond film and that film commitments meant the Shakespeare production he was lined up to do, was to have such a short run with him in it. He's involved in a new film version of Great Expectation, so one shouldn't read too much into how much time this Bond gig is taking. I just can't see him wanting the Q part – not juicy enough for him by a long shot but because of some of the posts in this thread, I wasn't sure the suggestion was being made in earnest.

When are they going to replace Dench as M, that's what I want to know.

It's been rumoured that Finney's replacing her – however, they're roughly the same age, so I would have expected someone younger.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Why would they want to replace Dench?

For once, EON are probably aware that they're on to a good thing.

[mycroft]

Why would they want to replace Dench?

I don't dislike her in the role (she did phone it in a bit for the Brosnan films, but she was brilliant in Casino Royale), but I reckon they might want to think about a new boss for Bond at some point. Needs to be someone with the same clout at home and abroad as Dench, obviously - a character man like Bernard Lee wouldn't be as much of a draw these days - so Finney would fit the bill.

[Jemble Fred]

I adore Finney, but he wouldn't make any sense in the role, he's far, far too old to convincingly hold that post. Dench is as well, of course, but she's been doing it for 16 years now.

Fiennes could fit the bill, I suppose.

[Ignatius_S]

Why would they want to replace Dench?

For once, EON are probably aware that they're on to a good thing.

If she isn't interested in doing the franchise any more? Most of the Bond films Dench has been in have been at two year intervals, so if we use that as a rough rule of thumb, she'll be around 79 years old – at that point, there might be other work that she wants to concentrate more on

When Bernard Lee died (one of two Ms who appeared in The Third Man – sorry, but I try to throw that into every conversation about Bond), it caused some difficulties for the film that was in production. Because of that, they might be thinking it's time to start considering a younger performer.

I don't dislike her in the role (she did phone it in a bit for the Brosnan films, but she was brilliant in Casino Royale), but I reckon they might want to think about a new boss for Bond at some point. Needs to be someone with the same clout at home and abroad as Dench, obviously - a character man like Bernard Lee wouldn't be as much of a draw these days - so Finney would fit the bill.

How much clout did Dench have abroad at that time though? She hadn't even done the narration for Spaceship Earth at EPCOT at that point!

Personally, I don't think it needs to be a recognisable name – just someone with some gravitas and authority – but suspect that that's what they'll be going for.

[The Roofdog]

I think it should be Gary Oldman for confusing crossover LOLZ

[Ignatius_S]

I adore Finney, but he wouldn't make any sense in the role, he's far, far too old to convincingly hold that post. Dench is as well, of course, but she's been doing it for 16 years now...

In the model civil service, both are far too old – however, I think there's charm in the head of the secret service being in post for years because they want to serve their country. As you say, Dench has been doing the role for years, so that fits well.

Personally, I think Finney would do a great job, but would be amazed if they replaced Dench with an actor who was roughly the same age.

[Ignatius_S]

I think it should be Gary Oldman for confusing crossover LOLZ

Now, a Smiley/Bond crossover would be splendid... I can see it now, Bond pleading with Smiley, "For God's sake, Smiley... he's had enough, you'll kill him."

[mycroft]

I think it should be Gary Oldman for confusing crossover LOLZ

I was thinking John Hurt.