I wander'd lonely as iCloud

[HappyTree]

I wander'd lonely as iCloud
That floats somewhere in cyberspace
Where I can, if I am allowed,
Retrieve it from most any place;
Twixt iPhone, iPad and iMac
I can send out, and then get back.

At first it seems a good idea -
Remote access to all my stuff!
Convenience rules supreme, I hear,
And that, for some, is good enough.
But what if my dear ISP
Is cut off by the "powers that be" ?

Can't I just keep my MP3s
In cupboards no-one can delete,
Or hard disks backed up locally
That re-install without defeat?
I can't agree with iCloud's goal
Of giving Apple such control.

[Famous Mortimer]

If you're one of the people who just has a few legally bought tracks, then you'll probably be fine. Everyone else should stay well away from this. Use the similar service from Ubuntu, if you're desperate.

[HappyTree]

I have probably about 80% of my music bought on CD and ripped into iTunes. The rest is stuff friends shared with me like a shedload of classical compilations whose provenance I am unaware of. So yes there is that concern.

But mainly I just genuinely don't see the point of trusting some invisible server in Apple-land with all my data. The entire iPod. All my contacts, notes, phone numbers, everything. They want everything! It is completely insane. And if someone somewhere decides I am not good enough they can instantly block my access to my OWN stuff. This is one of the most pointless ideas I've ever come across. For the consumer. For corporate control it is however a Godsend. I guess it's a way to sort out the smart people from the stupidly trusting.

[I accept the terms of the]

We just shouldn't encourage cloud services that have access to your data before it's been encrypted. If you ever upload anything that doesn't look like useless random bytes to a service you should expect something to go wrong.

[Ignatius_S]

I have probably about 80% of my music bought on CD and ripped into iTunes. The rest is stuff friends shared with me like a shedload of classical compilations whose provenance I am unaware of. So yes there is that concern....

Have you actually read about the service?  iCloud is only linked to songs that you've bought from the iTunes Store – so if you've bought a track on device, you can download it from another. If you don't want to use the feature, you can turn it off but whether it's switched off or not, iCloud has no link to other music on any of your devices.

The subscription-based iTunes Match is different, but that's yet to launch over here and... you don't have to use it.

[glitch]

I have probably about 80% of my music bought on CD and ripped into iTunes. The rest is stuff friends shared with me like a shedload of classical compilations whose provenance I am unaware of. So yes there is that concern.

But mainly I just genuinely don't see the point of trusting some invisible server in Apple-land with all my data. The entire iPod. All my contacts, notes, phone numbers, everything. They want everything! It is completely insane. And if someone somewhere decides I am not good enough they can instantly block my access to my OWN stuff. This is one of the most pointless ideas I've ever come across. For the consumer. For corporate control it is however a Godsend. I guess it's a way to sort out the smart people from the stupidly trusting.

Maybe, just maybe, you should make your own backups as well as/instead of relying on iCloud.

[HappyTree]

Have you actually read about the service?  iCloud is only linked to songs that you've bought from the iTunes Store

At no point did the Apple service say this, in fact I'm sure it said it was going to back everything up if I agreed to it. Just like the backups it does on my own computer, but this time hosted by Apple.

And on looking at the iPod Touch user guide to check, the very first thing it says about iCloud is:

iCloud is a free service you subscribe to that stores your content—mail, contacts, calendars, reminders, bookmarks, notes, photos, and documents

So it would seem that your statement is inaccurate.

[Noodle Lizard]

I don't get all the fuss about this kind of stuff.  Believe it or not, Apple really don't care if you have a Phone Sex Hotline in your contacts.

[phantom_power]

No he is right. In terms of music, videos and such it will only store what you buy from iTunes. I think it will only store photos you have taken from the device as well, though I think you can modify that in your photostream. All contacts and stuff are also backed up on the cloud

[Ignatius_S]

At no point did the Apple service say this, in fact I'm sure it said it was going to back everything up if I agreed to it. Just like the backups it does on my own computer, but this time hosted by Apple....

I appreciate that you're sure of what it said, but it doesn't  say that – if you use iCloud as a back-up system, not everything is actually backed up but I'll go back in a second to discuss music.

It's best to think as iCloud not as a single 'thing', but as a range of synchronisation and back-up services – because that's what it is. You don't have to use it full stop, but if you do, you can select what you do use. For example, if someone uses a range of devices like a laptop, desktop and phone, they may not want to use iCloud to back-up, but they may want to sync data, so the most up-to-date information is automatically accessible by each device. There's a range of options about what to sync – e.g. calendar, contacts, Safari bookmarks.

WriteRoom is an application that I use a lot for notes and I use it on different devices – users are able to link it to a Dropbox account to enable files to be automatically synced and I've done this. So, as long as I have an Internet connection, I'm able to access the latest notes no matter what device I was last working on – I could do this manually, but it's less of a faff doing it this way. As well as WriteRoom, I also use this for other apps. iCloud works very similar to this, but the synchronisation is built-in, rather than having to install a third-party app. You might think this kind of synchronisation to be pointless, but not all users do.

...So it would seem that your statement is inaccurate.

Nope, as that bit you quoted had nothing about music, it doesn't do anything of the sort. Just to repeat what I stated in that post, iCloud is only linked to music that you've purchased from the iTunes Store. That's not opinion, but fact.

I think it would have been better if you had gone to Apple's page about iCloud and iTunes:

iCloud can automatically download new music purchases to all your devices over Wi-Fi — or over 3G if you choose. Which means you can buy a song from iTunes on your iPad at home, and find it waiting for you on your iPhone during your morning commute. All without having to sync.

iCloud doesn't 'back-up' these purchases, but it allows you to download your purchases purchases on any device linked to your iTunes account. No music will be backed up on your iCloud storage.

However, if you want to access music that hasn't been bought with iTunes, you would need to use iTunes Match, which is the subscription-based service I mentioned and which hasn't been launched outside America.

If you want the benefits of iTunes in the Cloud for music you haven't purchased from iTunes, iTunes Match is the perfect solution.

It's built right into the iTunes app on your Mac or PC and the Music app on your iOS devices. And it lets you store your entire collection, including music you've imported from CDs or purchased somewhere other than iTunes. For just $24.99 a year.

Here's how it works: iTunes determines which songs in your collection are available in the iTunes Store. Any music with a match is automatically added to iCloud. Since there are more than 20 million songs in the iTunes Store, most of your music is probably already in iCloud. All you have to upload is what iTunes can't match. Which is much faster than starting from scratch. Once your music is in iCloud, you can stream and store it on any of your devices. Even better, all the music iTunes matches plays back from iCloud at 256-Kbps AAC DRM-free quality — even if your original copy was of lower quality.

Here's what MacWorld said:

iCloud Backup doesn't backup music or videos you've ripped from optical discs. For music, you can use iTunes Match, which costs $25 per year.

It also says:

So what exactly does iCloud Backup take care of? According to Apple, your device's settings; app data; the Home screen and how your apps are organized; photos and videos in the Camera Roll; iMessage, SMS, and MMS messages; and ringtones will all be uploaded.

To save space—and reduce upload times—your purchases won't be stored; instead, Backup will make a record of all the purchased iOS apps, books, music, and TV shows on your device. If you need to restore from a backup, that information is used to restore your purchases from the iTunes store. (Depending on your country, licensing restrictions may prevent some purchases from being restored.)

There are lots of user-friendly articles about iCloud and MacRumors is also a good resource for information - I would take a look. It might be that it's all nothing will be of use to you, but I think it would help create a clearer picture of what iCloud is and what it isn't.

[Ignatius_S]

No he is right. In terms of music, videos and such it will only store what you buy from iTunes. I think it will only store photos you have taken from the device as well, though I think you can modify that in your photostream. All contacts and stuff are also backed up on the cloud

That's right about the photos – they'll be stored in iCloud (up to 1,000 images and for 30 days) and the idea is, they'll be automatically uploaded to iPhoto or Aperture when next launched. However, you can save images to the camera roll to keep a permanent copy on an iDevice and/or to edit it.

[HappyTree]

iCloud is only linked to music that you've purchased from the iTunes Store. That's not opinion, but fact.

Ok, well if you say so. I only went by what Apple told me in its own documents and messages when I installed the new iOS. I went by the most primary source of information I could find, whereas you quote from secondary sources. Maybe they need to make it clear that when they ask if I want to back up my whole iPod they don't really mean it. Who knows better, Apple information or other commentators? I have no idea.

[HappyTree]

All contacts and stuff are also backed up on the cloud

Ok so you say they are backed up. Yer man above says not. Apple says yes. Some say no. You can appreciate, then, why this is a little unclear. Doesn't give me much confidence in their ability to handle any of my data if they can't even tell me what iCloud does.

[Ignatius_S]

Ok, well if you say so. I only went by what Apple told me in its own documents and messages when I installed the new iOS. I went by the most primary source of information I could find, whereas you quote from secondary sources. Maybe they need to make it clear that when they ask if I want to back up my whole iPod they don't really mean it. Who knows better, Apple information or other commentators? I have no idea.

A quote from Apple's website would be a primary source, not a secondary one. That aside, from the information that was offered during the upgrade installation,, I (correctly) understood what the service was.  Also, for those who can be bothered reading the T&C before clicking that they agree in order to install, it states:

Automatic backup is available for devices, and occurs periodically, when the device is screenlocked, connected to a power source, and connected to the Internet via a Wi-Fi network. iCloud will store your last three backups. Backup is limited to device settings, device characteristics, Camera Roll, messages (iMessage, SMS, and MMS), ringtones, app data, location settings (such as location-based reminders that you have set up), and Home screen and app organization. Content purchased from the iTunes Store, App Store, or iBookstore is not backed up, but may be eligible for download from those services, subject to account requirements, availability, and the applicable terms and conditions. Media obtained from other sources (such as ripped music or home videos) are not backed up, but can be synced to your computer by using iTunes. Your iCloud email, contacts, calendars, bookmarks, and documents are stored in, and can be accessed from, iCloud.

However, it can be very handy doing a little bit of research before you install something – for example, there are often teething bugs that it's good to be aware about – if nothing else, it helps understand exactly what you're installing. That's not to say companies can't or shouldn't make their information clearer, but it's just common sense.

Ok so you say they are backed up. Yer man above says not. Apple says yes. Some say no. You can appreciate, then, why this is a little unclear. Doesn't give me much confidence in their ability to handle any of my data if they can't even tell me what iCloud does.

Read the MacWorld articles.

[HappyTree]

So Apple say yes and no depending on precisely where you look. That's excellent. Why would I trust what MacWorld says when the iPod user guide contradicts it? Is there a user guide to tell me which Apple source has accurate information?

[Ignatius_S]

So Apple say yes and no depending on precisely where you look. That's excellent. Why would I trust what MacWorld says when the iPod user guide contradicts it? Is there a user guide to tell me which Apple source has accurate information?

I haven't seen any contradictory information from Apple (and I'm not how what you mean 'yes and no') – that doesn't mean there isn't. If you can supply the link to something which you feel is contradictory, I'll be happy to look at it.

I suggested looking MacWorld as it's run a few articles about iCloud, which provide a decent overview that I feel is both accurate and accessible. I can't comment on the iPod user guide you mention, but if you could link or quote the bits you feel contradict it, again, I'll be happy to look. The MacWorld articles jives with Apple information, including support documents, articles by other publications and various forums discussions.

Not quite sure about your final question, but Apple's online support section has up to date information. Additionally, there are support forums you could try.

*edit* Had a quick look at the iPod Touch user guide for iOS 5 and couldn't see anything that contradicts those MacWorld quotes. It also says "Music that isn't purchased in iTunes isn't backed up in iCloud. Use iTunes to back up and restore that content. See "Syncing with iTunes" on page 17."

[HappyTree]

See above for my original direct quote from the iPod user guide PDF which explicitly states "iCloud is a free service you subscribe to that stores your content—mail, contacts, calendars, reminders, bookmarks, notes, photos, and documents"

I got there by clicking on "iPod user guides" under Help in iTunes. A web page from apple comes up and I chose the iPod Touch PDF. I then searched under "iCloud" and clicked on the highlighted word that took me to page 16 where the above definition is taken from.

How much more authentic can I make my customer enquiry when I want to know about iCloud? I went straight to the most primary source possible, the actual official user guide for my device.

After reading this I was under the impression that my question had been answered. It does store all this personal data that I don't want to give Apple in some vague, ephemeral "cloud" the access to which can be cut off at a moment's notice or even by an errant child messing with my router. Too fragile for me. Hence my initial pastiche.

However, now on having my initial information from Apple challenged, I looked more deeply at the specific "backing up" rubric on page 137 of the user guide:

iCloud backs up your:

   
• Purchased music, TV shows, apps, and books
• Photos in your Camera Roll album
• iPod touch settings and app data
• Home screen and app organization
• Messages

Note: Purchased music isn't backed up in all areas and TV shows are not available in all areas

I see several problems with this information, again from the official Apple official. "Purchased" is ambiguous. All my music is purchased, I bought it on CD. Why would I assume it means "purchased through iTunes" ?

Secondly, I do not have a "Camera Roll" album anywhere in my iPod. I have no idea what it is talking about. Does it mean "Saved Photos" ? Or is this the "roll" of pictures in my primary photo album as defined under iTunes? I suspect they have used the term for the iPhone photo album and not bothered to change it. The iPhone has its own camera, my iPod 3 does not.

3. "settings and app data" - what is that? What settings? Which apps? Is "contacts" an app? Will it back up this data? The original description of iCloud says yes because contacts are specifically mentioned. This further description may or may not be referring to contacts obliquely. I have no way of second-guessing what is in the minds of these Apple techs. "Contacts will be stored" is already in my mind from before, so I assume this is still the case.

4. "messages" - What messages? The iPod is not a phone. It does not do text messages. Are these messages to myself in the Notes app? Voice messages with the dictaphone app? All this is so vague.


So hopefully you can now see why this is (a) confusing and (b) contradictory when set against what you have been saying is true. You may well be right, but I am only learning this after a protracted exchange on a forum and after several exhortations to look at other sites, comments and forums to double check.

All I wanted to know as a consumer faced with a sudden upgrade question about activating iCloud backups is "What personal data does iCloud actually hold?" I presumed I would get the answer by reading the iPod user guide. Apparently not. Apparently I have to be much more dogged and thorough in my quest for information on this service. This is, in a word, bollocks, especially when it is the security of my personal data that is in question.

No way do I trust these bozos to hold any of my data. And despite your assurances to the contrary, I am still about 90% sure that if I do activate my free iCloud space all my data and contacts will indeed be stored in Apple servers. I just know it. Why do I care? Because I keep in my locked iPod information on many personal things. It would be very easy to clone my cards and ID from what is in there. Because that's what people use PDAs for, to hold the details of their lives.

As Wordsworth might have said himself, "iCloud secure, LOL"

[Steve Lampkins]

See above for my original direct quote from the iPod user guide PDF which explicitly states "iCloud is a free service you subscribe to that stores your content—mail, contacts, calendars, reminders, bookmarks, notes, photos, and documents"

You've quoted it twice now, and it's making me feel quite stupid... :(

Are we not banging on about music? Let's see... I must be missing some piece of the puzzle

• mail Searching for 'music'... searching... please hold... your search for 'music' produced 0 results.
• contacts Searching for 'music'... searching... please hold... your search for 'music' produced 0 results.
• calendars Searching for 'music'... searching... please hold... your search for 'music' produced 0 results.
• reminders Searching for 'music'... searching... please hold... your search for 'music' produced 0 results.
• bookmarks Searching for 'music'... searching... please hold... your search for 'music' produced 0 results.
• notes Searching for 'music'... searching... please hold... your search for 'music' produced 0 results.
• photos Searching for 'music'... searching... please hold... your search for 'music' produced 0 results.
• documents Searching for 'music'... searching... please hold... your search for 'music' produced 0 results.

[HappyTree]

Are we not banging on about music?

Not primarily.

mainly I just genuinely don't see the point of trusting some invisible server in Apple-land with all my data. The entire iPod. All my contacts, notes, phone numbers, everything.

The music issue was dealt with swiftly and expertly. Thank-you to all concerned :)

edit: on the messages, I now understand. With the upgrade there is a new icon I shifted away in a folder and ignored. iMessages. Thanks but no thanks, Twitter DMs are more convenient.

[buntyman]

While you're all talking about Apple storage, perhaps you could give me some advice? I have been looking at some external hard drives on Amazon as that's what my sister wants for Christmas. Do these all work on Macs or do you have to buy special ones that are compatible?

[Zetetic]

No, they're fine - so long as the Mac and the drive have got the right connectors (which they almost certainly will USB or FireWire is fine).

(However - formatting might be an issue. Not for it working with the Mac - she can reformat for one thing - but if she wants it to work with a Mac and a machine running Windows. The chances are that the drive will come FAT32-formatted that will work with both, but I advise against using FAT32 unless you're not that bothered about losing the data and don't mind the various limitations (which many people won't).)

(Also, maybe these posts should be put in the general techie thread.)

[HappyTree]

Credit where credit's due. I may despise iCloud and all it implies and iOS 5 may have caused my iPod to crash horribly and force me to restore and reinstall 3 times before it figured out how to put all my photos where they should be

but

I must say that my bluetooth headphones finally work properly. This update is the only thing that's changed recently and suddenly the connection is perfect. It used to cut out whenever I moved and the effective range was lamentably short. The big idea was to have the iPod in my shoulder bag and this wonderful futuristic wireless connection to my headphones beaming Brian May's golden tones into my lugholes as I walked down the street. In reality it stuttered and gasped and I ended up having to lodge the pod almost under my armpit and keep my head at a constant 37º angle.

Now it is pristine and stutter-free. And I am free to wave my hair about like an advert for St-st-st-stoodio line.