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This Is England '88

Started by The Masked Unit, December 13, 2011, 09:32:45 PM

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The Masked Unit

Starts tonight on 4. Surprised there's no mention of it on here. I couldn't bring myself to watch the last episode of '86 after the rape in ep 2 left me feeling depressed for days, so not sure if I can be arsed to put myself through it.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

It's much, much better than the tonal car-crash of the previous series; much more in tune with the seemingly effortless mix of comedy and drama in most of Meadows' previous work, rather than that catastrophic mix of sub-Shameless[nb]Yes, sub-Shameless.[/nb] pantomime comedy and "LOOK! A HARROWING RAPE!" sledgehammer melodrama.

And Joe Gilgun is just a naturally funny, likeable performer, isn't he? His performance as Woody is lovely. I actually feel affection for these characters again, rather than being aggressively forced to as in This Is England '86. It seems that Meadows has learned from his mistakes, as this actually feels like a necessary and sympathetic sequel to the original film, rather than whatever in God's gusset the last series was supposed to be.

djtrees

Quote from: The Masked Unit on December 13, 2011, 09:32:45 PM
Starts tonight on 4. Surprised there's no mention of it on here. I couldn't bring myself to watch the last episode of '86 after the rape in ep 2 left me feeling depressed for days, so not sure if I can be arsed to put myself through it.
No way that is exactly how I felt. I really wanted to watch it but it just ended up depressing me. I found the mix of characters and the actors playing them really good in the film and the first episode of the other series. When they where getting ready for the wedding and all that jazz.I might give this one a go as long as there is no secret paedophilia in the second episode.*


*Prays for secret paedophilia

Dead kate moss

Gave it a chance, got bored, guessed it was just going to get bleaker and involve suicide or murder and blood and I couldn't spot enough anachronisms to play that game. Although if its set in '88, why use 'What Difference Does It Make?' as the theme, which came out a couple of years earlier... and did people say 'Crimbo' instead of Christmas back then? Anyway, watching something about books now, but this is getting dull too.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Dead kate moss on December 13, 2011, 11:05:07 PM
Although if its set in '88, why use 'What Difference Does It Make?' as the theme, which came out a couple of years earlier...

Because it came out a couple of years earlier, and people would still be listening to it?

Quote from: Dead kate moss on December 13, 2011, 11:05:07 PM
and did people say 'Crimbo' instead of Christmas back then? Anyway, watching something about books now, but this is getting dull too.

That bothered me slightly too, so we're obviously as pedantic as each other. But I've got a vague feeling that "Chrimbo" may have originated in the late 80s, as "Uni" did with the emergence - and by God, did it emerge - of Neighbours.

Anyway, I'm very impressed by the acting of Turgoose, Gilgun and McClure in this.

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on December 13, 2011, 11:23:47 PM

That bothered me slightly too, so we're obviously as pedantic as each other. But I've got a vague feeling that "Chrimbo" may have originated in the late 80s, as "Uni" did with the emergence - and by God, did it emerge - of Neighbours.


I'm pretty sure Glasgow Uni has been referred to locally as 'the Yooni' for many decades.  First I've heard of these Antipodeans introducing it.  Always one step ahead linguistically, ya bawbags!

Karaoke in 1988 though?  I did wonder about that - wasn't it the 1990s before this menace from the east arrived?

Enjoyed the programme, though.  Joe Gilgun excellent.  Have a feeling of uneasiness about the future episodes though - how much more can they put tortured souls Lol and Woody through?


thepuffpastryhangman

When Woody said, as he chatted to his boss, after his boss had just offered him his job "Can you believe this shit?" (maybe it was "that shit"?) I did comment 'folks didn't say that in 1988'.

Brundle-Fly

I had no idea this was on. Christ, there has been little or no promo at all. This Is England '86 was trailed like mad last year and there were big posters for it on hoardings and on the London Underground.  Very odd.

j_u_d_a_s

I did enjoy that it wasn't as sub-Shameless as the previous series but there's still too many holes to be ignored for me.

Spoiler alert
Point 1. Lol as a depressed single mum, excellent, I can buy into that. What I can't buy into is her getting het up over Woody having a new girlfriend after she cheated on him with his mate and is raising his kid. I can't understand why we're meant to be onside with her, beside that she was raped by her dad repeatedly.

point 2. Shaun potentially cheating on Smell. Are we really going down this route again? People shagging around seems to be what Channel 4 considers DRAMA! Skins, Fresh Meat and This is England all seem to hang on people shagging people they shouldn't. It's getting DULL now.

Point 3. Lol being haunted by the ghost of her dad. Wha? Just a bit too much to take suddenly. A shift from gritty realism to the supernatural is a bit too far.
[close]

Meadows clearly has affection for these characters but I honestly don't think he knows how to handle a TV series. Or naturalistic drama.

Rev

I saw a trailer for it a few days ago, and was expecting it to end with the traditionally mysterious 'coming soon' rather than 'Tuesday'.  Either they've flung it out or they're expecting the big push last time to have done the work for it, which would be misjudged, as I wasn't really expecting this to be a returning series.

Anyway, this is already a lot better than the last series, and if that was an experiment that was necessary in order to get to this stage, then fair enough.  The only problem I had was that the last run was so weak that I've not really retained anything that happened in it apart from RAPE.  I had to work back from the mixed-race kid to figure out why Milky was being treated as an arsehole.

Terminology:

Chrimbo:  I was a child of the mid-seventies, and it was always used when I was growing up.
Uni:  This one was probably always there, but you don't start saying it until going to university becomes an imminent possibility. 
Can you believe this shit:  Oh yeah, that's a fuck up.


Rev

No need for the spoiler tags!  I don't see any of these things as holes, really:

1.  She wasn't that wound up over that, was she?  There's the normal twinge about your ex hooking up with someone new, but I didn't see it as a major thing for her.

2.  Smell's his first girlfriend.  The first girl he kissed, even.  Would you believe that they stayed together forever?

3.  Eh?  It's a device, there's nothing supernatural going on.

So, yeah, what?


I really liked the first series when it originally aired, but, tellingly, I never felt the urge to revisit it on 4od or get the DVD (which is not unlike my reaction to the film, which blew me away on first watch, but seems to get 'less good' with each subsequent rewatch).

I thought the first episode of '88 was alright. Woody is easily the most engaging character and the scenes at his parents' house were wonderfully played. The actress playing his new girlfriend did a brilliant job of playing someone 'annoyingly nice' without over-doing it. The scene with his boss made me laugh as well.

I personally think the show could do with trimming the cast a bit, the scene in the pub with 'the gang' seemed to be shoe-horned in so that everyone got a line. If Gadget, Harvey, Banjo and Kelly had all disappeared between the two series, I wouldn't have missed them. I thought one of the best characters from the first series was Flip, the leader of the scooter gang. Maybe they should give him an off-screen face-turn (like they did with Harvey in between the film and '86) and make him part of the gang. I'd like to see more of him after I saw this very good short film with Perry Fitzpatrick (and some other TIE alumni) in it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-8J8A2tHrA

I still get annoyed with the fact that Banjo is a big lovable doofus in the tv show, whereas in the film, he's a right nasty bastard- Combo's prison mate who wields a machete and who's with him all the way with the racist shit and who holds Shaun down when Combo goes apeshit on Milky. Seeing him arm in arm with Sandhu at a karaoke night just seems a bit of a stretch.

Did Meggy die in the last series? I seem to remember a scene with him in a hospital but I can't remember if he died.

Vicky McClure is an excellent actress but her storyline seems a bit too trope-y,
Spoiler alert
especially the 'haunted by ghost dad' stuff and the 'bathroom mirror sudden appearance' which actually made me wince.
[close]
I wouldn't mind seeing more scenes with Trev, who's character in the first series didn't seem to be much more than 'Rape Victim #1'.

Another gripe is that, in my opinion, Andrew Shim just isn't a very good actor (He was great in 'Romeo Brass' but just seems totally wooden in all of the This Is Englands). It sticks out like a saw thumb.

I liked it enough to stick with it and I hope Stephen Graham gets a bit more screen time this time round but I'd really like Meadows to move on and start working on some new films.

Aploplectic

Quote from: j_u_d_a_s on December 14, 2011, 01:52:44 AM
Spoiler alert
Point 3. Lol being haunted by the ghost of her dad. Wha? Just a bit too much to take suddenly. A shift from gritty realism to the supernatural is a bit too far.
[close]

What a strange complaint - I'm quite sure that we weren't supposed to be thinking "oooh, a ghost!"

I really liked this.  I also liked '86, but I did think that the comedy elements in that series didn't blend very well with the more serious stuff.  Based on the first episode, they appear to have solved that problem this time and I thought that it moved pretty seemlessly between the different characters/situations.

There were some really good performances as well.  Lol remained sympathetic while being unpleasant at the hospital appointment, which was interesting.  The actor playing Woody was great too, managing to show the character's unhappiness while remaining a joker on the outside.  The opening scene with Shaun and Smell was really funny - I think that Thomas Turgoose has got the whiney teenager bang on.

Looking forward to episode 2.

Gulftastic

Thomas Turgoose reminds me of a young Keith Chegwin.

thepuffpastryhangman

Can we confine spoilers to the tags please?

lazyhour

I'm a bit in love with Smell.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

That scene with Lol and the Irish nurse was just perfectly judged, both in terms of (minimal) writing and performance. It was so powerful and moving, even the completely unnecessary and over-stretched "BOO-HOO! THIS IS SAD!" musical montage which followed didn't spoil it. Meadows is at his best when he pares things back and lets the tragedy and humour speak for themselves.

mcbpete

Though unfortunately it did highlight quite how disastrous Thomas Turgoose's acting abilities are in comparison during that final scene when
Spoiler alert
Smell discovers Shaun in bed with Faye
[close]
. I hadn't seen acting quite that hammy in a long time....

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: mcbpete on December 14, 2011, 11:54:33 PM
Though unfortunately it did highlight quite how disastrous Thomas Turgoose's acting abilities are in comparison during that final scene when
Spoiler alert
Smell discovers Shaun in bed with Faye
[close]
. I hadn't seen acting quite that hammy in a long time....

I didn't think it was hammy at all. On the contrary, I though his distress was utterly convincing.

babyshambler

The Frenchy background music before the play was the music that Adam Buxton used for his 'blahblahblahblah waffles..blah blah pancakes!' jingle. I assume Meadows is using it for its royalty free-ness =)

A +1 for enjoying this more than '86. The scenes with the
Spoiler alert
nurse and Combo
[close]
were so well played and tense. Lovely stuff. Woody is such a tragic character as well, and so well performed.

Gulftastic

Vicky McLure really is one hell of an actress. She was amazing in her scenes with the Nurse and Combo.

BritishHobo

This is weird to say, but that last scene with Shaun and Smell was immensely fucking satisfying.
Spoiler alert
After five episodes of Shaun just being a grumpy teen, and Smell basically being a robotic waxwork figure, it was great to see the two of them just show some fucking emotion for once. Rosamund Hanson is fantastic, and that scene was all the better for her being strangely emotionless up to this point.
[close]
Anyway, I'm enjoying this far more than '86. I know others have said this all already, but the series was at two complete opposite ends of the spectrum. The comedy was incredibly silly (some shit about a housewife bedding one of the gang, and having a kid that looks like Meggy), and the drama very painfully forced. This series seems to at least be meeting somewhere in the middle.

Anyway, fuck the gang, they're all pointless. I'm actually finding Lol more sympathetic this series, after her being such an unapologetic bitch but ooh she has a dark past so it's not really her fault, and Joe Gilgun is fantastic as ever. Enjoying watching their's and Shaun's storylines, not overly fussed about randomly seeing the rest of the characters doing karaoke.

Plus it'll never not annoy me that Combo's violent nationalist mate who stood by whilst he assaulted Milky, is just part of the gang now. Of all the ways to include that character in the series, that must be the worst.

thepuffpastryhangman

He's easily led. Just wants t'be one o' lads

rjd2

Quote from: thepuffpastryhangman on December 14, 2011, 09:13:45 PM
Can we confine spoilers to the tags please?

Aye, no idea why so many spoiler tags after airing on C4. Surely if you have not seen the show you wouldn't be so naïve to enter the thread? 

thepuffpastryhangman

It was an attempt at a joke on the post above.

Quote from: Gulftastic on December 14, 2011, 05:11:26 PM
Thomas Turgoose reminds me of a young Keith Chegwin.

The idea was that the most permanent image people have of Chegwin is him with his cock out in Naked Jungle. And that the spoiler was that later in the series we'd see Turgoose's tackle too. I'm hopeless with the crude stuff. Sorry.

Subtle Mocking

Back to unrelenting bleakness then.

BritishHobo

Joe Gilgun is absolutely incredible in this. Guy really should get more roles.
I'm even liking Lol, which I didn't think possible after the last series. At this point, I'm pretty sad that this is the last episode for '88.

Bemused about the prominence of
Spoiler alert
Lol's dad. Understandable seeing how the memory of him haunts her, but why so often repeated, and why such an extended scene of him sitting alone in a church, after Lol leaves, as if he's an actual living breathing character?
[close]

Yeah, Gilgun was phenomenal in that final episode. Some of the best acting I've seen in a long time. I might have to start watching Misfits now, just to see more of him.

This series has definitely been an improvement on the first. I don't know if it's because all 3 episodes were shown on consecutive nights but it felt a bit too brief for me. It would have been nice to see a bit more of Shaun and Smell's storyline given a bit more coverage.

BritishHobo

Agreed on Shaun and Smell. I don't think either of them were even in it aside from the opening and closing sequences. Was definitely Gilgun's episode, while '86 belonged to Lol. Shaun only really seems to be in these shows because he was the main character in the film, rather than them having anything interesting to do with his character.

Bit confused as to why the episode ended with Woody
Spoiler alert
apologizing to everybody who fucked him over,
[close]
but whatever. Phenomenal acting, incredibly gripping stuff. I look forward to '90.

Gulftastic

Joe Gilgun's acting when he was told about Lol's suicide was amazing. Just a gut reaction, mixing grief, shock and anger.

I also liked that his new girlfriend was so understanding, even with him trying to persuade her not to be. And a pretty realisitic fight too. Especially the bit where you thought it was over, but Woody went back for more. So typical.