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Double standards toward remakes.

Started by astrozombie, December 22, 2011, 12:41:27 PM

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astrozombie

Remakes really grind my gears. Especially remakes of foreign films which are obviously done because let's face it 90% of film-goers refuse to read subtitles. I'm not being snobby about that, that's fair enough, if you don't want to read subtitles that's completely your choice. I just think that if their not going to read the subtitles they should just go without ever seeing great movies such as "The Ring", "Let the Right One In", "Dark Water" etc.

This got me thinking then. People are quick enough to bitch about remakes but I've noticed that when a director people love put's their hand to one. For example Martin Scorsese with his 9 hour long "Infernal Affairs" remake, the Oscar award winning, "The Departed". The film is terrible. It's boring, too long, Mark Whalberg is in it. However everyone loves it. If someone like Michael Bay made that film shot-for-shot EXACTLY the same I think people would loathe it.

Now we see David Fincher remaking. Oh no I'm sorry. "RE-ADAPTING" the Swedish blockbuster "The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo" trilogy. Looks like an awful My Chemical Romance music video in my opinion. In the trailer we already know that it is going to be a dark thriller. However the original really worked as I thought I was going into a tedious thriller about journalism and was shocked out of my seat. What's the point in complaining though? David Fincher's expensive dub of "TGWTDT" has been released now and is going to do well, is already getting rave reviews, because let's face it, people are idiots.

Harpo Speaks

Quote from: astrozombie on December 22, 2011, 12:41:27 PM
David Fincher's expensive dub of "TGWTDT" has been released now and is going to do well, is already getting rave reviews, because let's face it, people are idiots.

Or perhaps it's that Fincher is a good director, and he's managed to produce a good film?

El Unicornio, mang

I love The Departed and the remake of TGWTDT is apparently better than the original, so I can't really agree. Obviously great directors like Scorsese and Fincher are going to probably make a decent remake that some other hack might not. Also, there are probably as many bad remakes (percentage wise) as bad originals. I don't care too much if it's a remake, if it's good. To me, it's actually quite interesting. For instance, I liked watching both versions of Scum by Alan Clarke. They're almost identical, but it's interesting to note the differences. See also: LA Takedown vs. Heat.

Absorb the anus burn

#3
Fincher is a solid director, so it will be interesting to see what he does with TGWTDT, but largely I'd say American studios fail when remaking European thrillers. Les Diaboliques; The Vanishing; Anything For Her... The Russell Crowe remake of this film is utterly pedestrian. Too long, cute, bogged down with clunky exposition and prolonged action sequences. The original is... Everything the remake isn't.

Johnny Textface

'Let me in' was by far the better film imo.

astrozombie

I wouldn't really say Fincher is a great director. "Shite Club" is by far the worst film I've ever seen. In fact every film he's made is just an overrated lump of shite. "Panic Room" shit, "Se7en", a film so far up it's own arse it ached; topped off with an annoying performance driven plot. But then again, I suppose a film which features Gwyneth Paltrow having her head chopped off and stuffed in a cardboard box deserves some merit. It gets 2 out of 10 for that addition. "The Curious Case of Benjamin Button" was equivelent to breaking your own back, bending over backwards and staring into your own arse for 7 hours. I've never done any of his other films I haven't been able to bring myself to it. The first year film students love him a great deal though so he ain't ALL bad.


Ah well I hope he's able to afford that golden rimmed swimming pool with all the cash he makes from these remakes.

Martin Scorsese. Okay. This man left his career behind in the 80's. In fact, the last great film he made was "The King of Comedy". Ever since then it's been kind of sad to watch.

CaledonianGonzo

Do multiple adaptations of the same source material  - as in the case of Dragon Tattoo, Let The Right One In, etc. - count as remakes?

El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: astrozombie on December 22, 2011, 01:08:07 PM
I wouldn't really say Fincher is a great director. "Shite Club" is by far the worst film I've ever seen. In fact every film he's made is just an overrated lump of shite. "Panic Room" shit, "Se7en", a film so far up it's own arse it ached; topped off with an annoying performance driven plot. But then again, I suppose a film which features Gwyneth Paltrow having her head chopped off and stuffed in a cardboard box deserves some merit. It gets 2 out of 10 for that addition. "The Curious Case of Benjamin Button" was equivelent to breaking your own back, bending over backwards and staring into your own arse for 7 hours. I've never done any of his other films I haven't been able to bring myself to it. The first year film students love him a great deal though so he ain't ALL bad.


Ah well I hope he's able to afford that golden rimmed swimming pool with all the cash he makes from these remakes.

Martin Scorsese. Okay. This man left his career behind in the 80's. In fact, the last great film he made was "The King of Comedy". Ever since then it's been kind of sad to watch.

There is so much wrong opinion in this post that I'm assuming you are now just trolling.

astrozombie

Quote from: CaledonianGonzo on December 22, 2011, 01:09:08 PM
Do multiple adaptations of the same source material  - as in the case of Dragon Tattoo, Let The Right One In, etc. - count as remakes?

Seems odd how these multiple adaptations only getting chucked into production by American studios after they have been adapted into very successful/profitable films in Europe.

astrozombie

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on December 22, 2011, 01:11:46 PM
There is so much wrong opinion in this post that I'm assuming you are now just trolling.

How is my opinion wrong?

David Fincher is shit!


Absorb the anus burn

Fincher is shit in your opinion, and has made a few so-so films, I'd agree... Often he's better than the material he chooses to work with. My favourite of his films is 'The Game'..... Which most people say is shit.

astrozombie

I just think it's kind of sad that everything needs to be Americanized these days. It really gets me down. "The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo" is a great thriller both the books and films (original) are great and work really well being set in Sweden. Same with "Let the Right One In", that was a FANTASTIC film (again the book was great aswell) and that too really worked well being set in Sweden. The country it was intended to be set in.

I know this sounds like a boring argument. But I've always gotten a warm feeling when watching most foreign films. It's great that you get to take a peek into a story set in a country you've never been too and follow characters from that place. Nice to see how people in different countries act, move, converse etc. Just a nice addition really.

But then whomp! American fat cat producers just look at that and think "YEAH SET IT IN AMERICA, GET THAT GUY ALL THE FIRST YEAR FILM STUDENTS LOVE. FINCHER HIS NAME IS! YEAH GET HIM! MAKE HIM MAKE IT LOOK LIKE A MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE MUSIC VIDEO TOO! AND WHERE THE FUCK IS MY COKE!"

I can't wait for piracy to completely destroy the American film industry.

Just realised Steven Zallian (Awakenings, Schindlers List) has wrote the screenplay for this. If I ever needed more evidence to back up the fact that Finchers remakes are going to suck cock. There it is.

BlodwynPig

Mark Kemode had a chapter on this in his recent book - pretty much echoing AstroZombie - the first paragraph anyway (in fact AZ seems to have read that chapter?).

astrozombie

Quote from: BlodwynPig on December 22, 2011, 01:34:17 PM
Mark Kemode had a chapter on this in his recent book - pretty much echoing AstroZombie - the first paragraph anyway (in fact AZ seems to have read that chapter?).

I haven't read that book. I do like Mark Kermode though. I guess that just makes us both in the right then.

El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: astrozombie on December 22, 2011, 01:32:17 PM


Just realised Steven Zallian (Awakenings, Schindlers List) has wrote the screenplay for this. If I ever needed more evidence to back up the fact that Finchers remakes are going to suck cock. There it is.

Again, you're mentioning films which most people/critics agree are very good. If you're going to have a solid argument you're going to have to at least mention some genuinely shit films.

BlodwynPig

Quote from: astrozombie on December 22, 2011, 01:38:00 PM
I haven't read that book. I do like Mark Kermode though. I guess that just makes us both in the right then.

I tend to agree with you, but please proceed with caution.

astrozombie

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on December 22, 2011, 01:40:20 PM
Again, you're mentioning films which most people/critics agree are very good. If you're going to have a solid argument you're going to have to at least mention some genuinely shit films.

These are ALL genuinely shit films. Not my fault critics are retarded.

Famous Mortimer

I respectfully disagree – Fincher is a brilliant director and is probably the best mainstream director working at the moment. I rewatched "Zodiac" recently on blu-ray (and all the special features afterwards, an absolute treat) and came away with even more respect for the man. I think I went on about it at length in an "underappreciated movies" thread, if you're desperate to read my opinion on it.

I think his version of TGWTDT stands a fairly good chance of being better than the original, and I've got no problem with people remaking stuff in a foreign language for English-speaking audiences – I notice there was very little fuss when Branagh remade the Wallander stories, for a closely related example.

Bad Ambassador

There someone in this thread with a mental age of 12. If you guess correctly, you win a fabulous prize![nb]May not be fabulous or a prize.[/nb]

Zetetic

Zetetic mentions Insomnia/Insomnia

I think it's a bit odd that Nolan's remake was so highly praised, given that his work mostly detracted from the source material.

Quote from: Johnny Textface on December 22, 2011, 01:06:26 PM
'Let me in' was by far the better film imo.
Why? I think there are some odd decisions with the first film.

Funcrusher

The 'Insomnia' remake is a fucking lousy film; the original is miles better. It even manages to forget about the protagonist's insomnia for large stretches at a time, which is central to the whole fucking thing and done so much better in the original. Christopher Nolan: so crap he makes David Fincher look half decent.

CaledonianGonzo

Quote from: Zetetic on December 22, 2011, 09:41:49 PM
Why? I think there are some odd decisions with the first film.

I've yet to see Let Me In, but the cat attack in Let The Right One In is hilarious for all the wrong reasons.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Fincher is an overrated director, that's for sure. And Zodiac's own 'real story' doesn't even work as a gripping film narrative. Films aren't supposed to lose thread and go really really slow and pointless for an hour solid.

This is from someone who would usually defend fairly slow moving pieces, but most of those go somewhere.

El Unicornio, mang

I like Nolan's Insomnia a lot. Haven't seen the original, mind. I like his style though, haven't disliked any of films.

And the only bad Fincher film is Alien3, which wasn't really his fault. Benjamin Button was a bit meh too, but again the source material was lacking,

Famous Mortimer

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 22, 2011, 11:00:07 PM
Fincher is an overrated director, that's for sure. And Zodiac's own 'real story' doesn't even work as a gripping film narrative. Films aren't supposed to lose thread and go really really slow and pointless for an hour solid.

This is from someone who would usually defend fairly slow moving pieces, but most of those go somewhere.
I disagree (obviously) - and was casting round for a way to describe it, but Roger Ebert's review does it better than I ever could. http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070823/REVIEWS/708230308 - my initial response to the film was the same as yours, and I was annoyed that it didn't go anywhere. But, about 6 months ago, there were a few reviews which were all "this is the 'lost' classic of the last decade", so I decided to check it out again with a fresh set of eyes and absolutely loved it.

I also liked "Insomnia", but I'd not seen the original when I saw the remake. Obviously, it's a bit silly saying X is "better" than Y when it comes to filmmakers, but I think Nolan and Fincher are my two favourite US filmmaker guys - and as they're beloved of a certain sort of fan, they're also going to attract the same amount of criticism. No-one would spend as much time pointing out the flaws in Michael Bay movies, for example.

Still, I'd forgotten Fincher made Insomnia. I hope he doesn't become that guy who remakes foreign films. Although...OSS 117?

Johnny Textface

Quote from: Zetetic on December 22, 2011, 09:41:49 PM
Why? I think there are some odd decisions with the first film.

I've not read the source material but as a movie I just preferred the atmosphere / soundtrack / performances / pace and the handling of the more horrific elements. The 'love story' is more believable too for some reason.

Dark Sky

Quote from: Johnny Textface on December 22, 2011, 01:06:26 PM
'Let me in' was by far the better film imo.

Yeah, quite agree.  The trouble with the original film was that although it was closer to the book, it failed to tell a good story, and if you hadn't read the book it seemed confused and patchy.  Let Me In ties everything together so much better.  Although it drops the paedophilia and gender swap elements, which was a shame.  And the kids seemed a bit more natural in the Swedish film.

Quote from: CaledonianGonzo on December 22, 2011, 01:09:08 PM
Do multiple adaptations of the same source material  - as in the case of Dragon Tattoo, Let The Right One In, etc. - count as remakes?

Let Me In is definitely a remake as some shots are identical to the original film.

El Unicornio, mang

I generally just call any film a remake that has been done before. I mean, they're "remaking" it, regardless of whether it's from an old novel or a screenplay written specifically. Makes it easier than saying "new adaptation".

jutl

That Facebook movie was OK, but otherwise I'd agree that Fincher has made a load of middling to poor movies. Similarly with Nolan he seems to have succeeded on the basis that serviceable is the new brillliant in Hollywood.