Academy Awards 2012

[SavageHedgehog]

Platoon, Schindler's List, Unforgiven, Silence of the Lambs and LOTR (not a big fan myself, but can't deny it's brilliance) are the only truly great films I can see in the list of best pictures since 1982 (contrast this with the 1970s where almost every winner was incredible). There are some really terrible decisions: Amadeus, Dances With Wolves beating Goodfellas, Forrest Gump beating Pulp Fiction and Shawshank, The English Patient beating Fargo and Shine, Titanic beating LA Confidential, Shakespeare in Love beating The Thin Red Line, American Beauty beating The Insider, Crash beating...everything else it was up against.

Amadeus, really? I thought that was one of the Best Picture winners it was OK to like? I think I could certainly argue for it being considerably better than Return of the King up there. Ah, well.

Never seen Shawshank losing to Forrest Gump as a big deal, I think they're ultimately two sides of the same coin. Losing to Pulp Fiction on the other hand.

Don't care for Lambs at all, but at least it was an unusual choice for the Academy.

[Famous Mortimer]

It's a bit like expecting Merzbow to win something at the Smash Hits Poll Winners Party

I love you, phantom_power.

[danyulx]

Moreover, your apparent dismissal of things simply because they are successful at the box-office or critically lauded means you are potentially missing out on some genuinely good films.

I may have come across this way, but this is nonsense. I've never dismissed a film just because it was successful or critically lauded. I've only ever dismissed films because I think they're shit - and if they're critically lauded and box-office success to boot, which makes it worse, then so be it.

I'm not missing out on anything. I watch a wide, wide-range of films, much wider than most people I know. The ones listed - and I could have gone on and on - were just a few I consider brilliant, that happened to be released over the last thirty years.

My statement that "I demand to get my arse kicked by a film" was a bit over-the-top, yeah. I meant, simply, i.e. I should've phrased it this way less dramatically to begin with, that If I'm going to spend two hours of my day watching a film I hope to be proper affected by it on some kind of deep level – there are many levels - rather than suffer through vacuousness and inanity for ninety minutes (which I can just by walking outside, thanks) that a board of soulless cretins[nb]EDIT: I am referring here to a board of mythical executive producers, sat around in a massive Gilliam-esque drawing room, smoking cigars and counting their monies, wearing suits. Bastards. And not indeed to this internet messaging board. God bless you all.[/nb] think constitutes as "entertainment". I could just as well have my "arse kicked" by watching some heart-felt, beautiful pastoral romance, or by having a good old belly laugh, as I could watching 'Salo' or something.

I couldn't give a toss about "mainstream" or "independent" cinema. I like what I like. There are plenty of financially successful, critically lauded films I love, such as most of The Coen Brothers' cannon (though it just happens one of my very least favourite of theirs, 'No Country for Old Men' just happened to win The Oscar). I thought 'Inglourious Basterds' not long ago was a brilliant film (I would have definitely put that in my list if it came to me, at the time), one of the best of the year - wasn't that produced by the infamous Weinstein Brothers? I don't know or care.

I finally got around to seeing 'The Rum Diary' last night. Great film, I thought. Much better than anyone had me to believe.. Give that the fucking Oscar. Now officially Bruce Robinson's second best film.

You must realise that your tastes are pretty niche and off-centre , so why would a popular film competition like the Oscars tally with your view on films? It isn't about being right or wrong, they just aren't voted for with you in mind.

Of course I realise all this, I'm not a total solipsist, though sometimes wish I was. What do you want me do, type "in my humble opinion" after every sentence? The Oscars are wrong and shit and I am right: in my opinion. In the same way many wide-spread, accepted things in this world are wrong and me knowing they're wrong I'm right, in my opinion. Such as the hardcore, despicable abuse of animals by the human race, with no end in sight. Good analogy, I know.

The Oscars are about Hollywood feeling good about itself, and are voted for by Academy members who are Hollywood insiders.

You've just summed up better than I could why the Oscars are shit and why what is nominated and wins means absolutely nothing.

The fact that winning an Oscar is generally considered the most incredible thing that can happen to a film or filmmaker is what disturbs me. I know for sure if I ever got nominated for or won an Oscar  - God help us all - I'd unquestionably "do a Brando", in protest. Or better yet, "pull off a Matt and Trey" (see: the recent South Park 'Making Of' documentary, glorious).

[packageholiday]

Senna was a really entertaining film to watch but as a documentary it kinda felt like a few people rimming the fuck out of him for their own purposes. It was a bit gaggy at points.

It's definitely hagiographic, although I'm not sure what you mean about 'for their own purposes'.

What makes it such a great documentary is the unusual way it's made, certainly for a sports film. The choice to use exclusively contemporaneous footage and employ no narrator makes it seem like you're watching a storyline develop, as opposed to reflecting on things that happened in the past.

(Sorry for the late reply; I realise the thread has moved on.)

[Harpo Speaks]

I may have come across this way, but this is nonsense. I've never dismissed a film just because it was successful or critically lauded. I've only ever dismissed films because I think they're shit - and if they're critically lauded and box-office success to boot, which makes it worse, then so be it.

I'm not missing out on anything. I watch a wide, wide-range of films, much wider than most people I know. The ones listed - and I could have gone on and on - were just a few I consider brilliant, that happened to be released over the last thirty years.

That is fair enough. As another illustration of our differing tastes, NCFOM was actually one of the few films in the post-82 list that stood out to me as being one I love. (See also - A Serious Man, one of the 2009 nominees.)

I'm with you on IB though, a film that has risen in my estimation after every single viewing.

[phantom_power]

Of course I realise all this, I'm not a total solipsist, though sometimes wish I was. What do you want me do, type "in my humble opinion" after every sentence? The Oscars are wrong and shit and I am right: in my opinion. In the same way many wide-spread, accepted things in this world are wrong and me knowing they're wrong I'm right, in my opinion. Such as the hardcore, despicable abuse of animals by the human race, with no end in sight. Good analogy, I know.

Of course I don't expect you to put "in my opinion" after everything but in this case your assertion was "the oscars are shit" when I think what is really the case is "the oscars are voted for on criteria that I don't really care about". For you the oscars are about as important as a Channel 4 100 Best Mediocre Films programme, which is fair enough but I don't see why it is worth bothering about in that case.

[CaledonianGonzo]

I finally watched The Secrets In Their Eyes the other night, and I probably wouldn't have got around to it at all if it hadn't won the Best Foreign Film Oscar a couple of years ago.

Ergo, the Academy Awards still have their uses.

(It's no masterpiece, but I did enjoy it a lot).

[danyulx]

Of course I don't expect you to put "in my opinion" after everything but in this case your assertion was "the oscars are shit" when I think what is really the case is "the oscars are voted for on criteria that I don't really care about".

Use the word shit how you like, yourself. But that's one of my many definitions. Many things voted for on a criteria that I don't really care about fall into this shit. See: the latest government, and every other government.

If I had to sum up The Academy Awards it would be "the appraisal of mediocrity". Which is certainly shit.

I'm not saying it should be banned or anything though, just dismissed as shit. Or I should dismiss it as shit, at least.

I don't see why it is worth bothering about in that case.

Well I'm not really bothering about it. I'm merely pointing I think it's shit on some internet forum, as a topic happened get started - that no film that I consider brilliant has won an Oscar over the last thirty years. You won't find me blockading the red carpet picketing the event, believe me.

I'm only annoyed because - like I've said - winning an Oscar seems to be considered greatest accolade that can happen to film, by everyone. As opposed to the nonsense that means nothing it actually is. "Oscar nominated!" So what.

One more example: 'Grizzly Man' - one of the best documentaries of the last decade or so - wasn't even nominated for the best documentary Oscar that year of release. Why? Because Werner Herzog is too good for The Academy Awards, that's why.

[Harpo Speaks]

One more example: 'Grizzly Man' - one of the best documentaries of the last decade or so - wasn't even nominated for the best documentary Oscar that year of release. Why? Because Werner Herzog is too good for The Academy Awards, that's why.

I haven't seen Grizzly Man, but wasn't there some sort of fuck-up where they mistakenly disqualified it on the basis of it being entirely made up of archival footage?

[danyulx]

Mistakenly, yeah, which about sums their voting system up. At least a third of the film was newly-recorded footage. And all the archive footage - none of which previously seen - was ripped a new arsehole with Herzog's (hilarious) voiceover anyway.

Even if it was exclusively made up of archive footage, so what? It's a still a documentary. All documentary footage is technically archive footage.

'Bowling for Columbine' was one of the worst documentaries I've seen in my life.

[Bad Ambassador]

Grizzly Man was disqualified because Herzog pre-scripted some of his interviewees responses. He does this a lot in the name of "ecstatic truth". It's just his way.

[Harpo Speaks]

Looking into this while wondering about the eligibility of Senna, I found this:

http://realscreen.com/2011/10/12/is-senna-eligible-for-the-best-doc-oscar/

According to filmmaker James Moll, a member of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences' Documentary Branch Executive Committee (and a former best doc feature Oscar-winner himself, for 1998 effort The Last Days) there is no reason why an entirely archive-based documentary would not qualify anyway.

"There is no Academy rule that would disqualify a documentary simply because it is constructed entirely from archival footage," Moll told realscreen.

The confusion seems to have stemmed in part from the belief that Werner Herzog's 2005 classic Grizzly Man – which famously did not even make the 15-long doc feature Oscar shortlist, let alone the last five nominees – was snubbed because it was made entirely from archival, or 'found footage' (see here, here or here for example).

Yet Moll says this is an urban legend. "These articles are not correct," he explains. "Grizzly Man was eligible, and was submitted for the 2005 qualifying year and was considered by Academy voters along with all other films submitted that year."

[Harpo Speaks]

An article from the LA Times about the demographics of the Academy voters:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/movies/academy/la-et-unmasking-oscar-academy-project-html,0,7473284.htmlstory

[biggytitbo]

The day the academy awards are worth watching is the day Woody Allen turns up.

[dr_christian_troy]

The day the academy awards are worth watching is the day Woody Allen turns up.

Unless there's another significant New York-related incident, it's not likely...

[Bad Ambassador]

The day the academy awards are worth watching is the day Woody Allen turns up.

2002, when they gave Best Picture to A Beautiful Mind.

[The Roofdog]

Titanic vs LA Confidential feels like a tipping point to me. Before 1998 I can find something to like about 99% of Best Picture winners, after Titanic the sluice gates really opened. So much money had been pumped into Titanic that even though it wasn't doing badly before the Oscars it wasn't going to justify the expense unless the Academy stepped in. They had the choice to recognise one of the more interesting, well-crafted American films of the decade or prevent the gravy train from de-railing and they've been making the same shitty decision ever since.

[El Unicornio, mang]

I think the 70s was the last truly great Oscar decade. Looking at the ten films that won, pretty much all of them are bona fide classics of cinema. Although I would have voted for Taxi Driver ahead of Rocky. Notable that Annie Hall beat Star Wars. Not that I'm saying Star Wars is without merit, but I can't imagine something like that happening these days.

[Blinder Data]

Notable that Annie Hall beat Star Wars. Not that I'm saying Star Wars is without merit, but I can't imagine something like that happening these days.

Two years ago The Hurt Locker beat Avatar in Best Picture and Director categories though. Please be aware I'm not saying The Hurt Locker is as good as Annie Hall - I haven't seen Bigelow's film. The issue is I don't think the Oscars have ever respected science/fantasy films much (apart from LOTR:ROTK, of course). It's nearly always history/war/serious dramas.

The notion that Annie Hall would win today does seem a bit odd however - but then Woody Allen was one of a kind.

[rjd2]

http://www.oscars.org/awards/academyawards/oscarlegacy/2000-present/2008/winners.html


That was the last year I cared about The Oscars, so many genuine 4 star films nominated. Sadly I recall the show bombing in the ratings because the films were not mainstream enough.

[El Unicornio, mang]

That was a very good year for (Hollywood) films. Although I would have picked La Vie En Rose or Gone Baby Gone ahead of Juno and I'd have given Casey Affleck the Oscar ahead of Javier Bardem. Loved No Country..., but didn't think his performance was particularly amazing, he was pretty much just playing a real-life Terminator, it seemed like.

[Eclectic Boogaloo]

Although i hate to be one of "those" forum folk - who lurks and only pops out to ask a favour... I need to ask a favour.

I don't have Sky TV and last year was sent a link (via CaB) to how you can watch the Oscars online... If anyone would be jolly sporting about sending me a PM with info - unless that will get anyone into trouble - then I could watch the awards tonight and then fill my Facebook and twitter pages up with bile and righteous indignation about who wins and who didn't wins...

Other than that, I enjoy everything everyone writes here.

x

[El Unicornio, mang]

The ABC live stream is usually my go-to place. If you do a google search it should be the first one up. I'm kind of tempted to skip it tonight so I can watch a commercial-free HD rip of it tomorrow off a torrent site, but I know I won't be able to result looking up the results...

[Eclectic Boogaloo]

The ABC live stream is usually my go-to place. If you do a google search it should be the first one up. I'm kind of tempted to skip it tonight so I can watch a commercial-free HD rip of it tomorrow off a torrent site, but I know I won't be able to result looking up the results...

So, because I'm in the UK, will the ABC live stream work outside of the US of A?

In the past, I've waiting the next day, but I've fallen into the habit (well, 2 years) of doing a live commentary of the awards on my facebook page for those who care to read it (usually no one).

i don't have too many pleasures in life left (goes to grief pit, lights a black candle)

[El Unicornio, mang]

So, because I'm in the UK, will the ABC live stream work outside of the US of A?

Yep. It's not an "official" stream, if you catch my drift.

[Eclectic Boogaloo]

Yep. It's not an "official" stream, if you catch my drift.

No.

;o)

[Depressed Beyond Tables]

Someone should do a live CaB radio commentary.

[Eclectic Boogaloo]

Someone should do a live CaB radio commentary.

it would be as painful to listen to as it would be to watch - but its a fascinating idea!

[phes]

One of the film podcasts (i think) used to do a live alternative Oscar commentary but I can't for the life of me work out which it was. I'd very much like to listen to that or something like it because it's a pretty uninspiring list of films that have been nominated.

[Depressed Beyond Tables]

Chatroom?

Found a link btw