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Lars Von Trier

Started by anonymous_lurker, February 02, 2012, 03:46:42 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

chris87

Those interpretations make sense, but I still think film would have been better if cut earlier. Perhaps that is the point, though, and what Trier puts in first place of value is the film as pisstake rather than drama. It didn't make me laugh though, just think 'that is really shit'; it looked like it could have been a sincere but extremely hamfisted attempt to segue into magic realism, even if that wasn't what was going on.

Dark Sky

Quote from: falafel on February 04, 2012, 11:04:50 AM
In a way it's taking the piss out of the audience; the Dogme tropes are a layer of artifice that, as you say, disguise the flagrant melodrama of the plot. In essence all we have to do to buy into a hackneyed and manipulative plot is to convince ourselves that it is a new experience; which is done here largely through the contrivedly unadorned atmosphere of the piece.

The irony I suppose is that he actually rejuvenates the emotional impact of melodrama for the cynics and skeptics - until you get it and start to feel a bit guilty for falling for it, which if you're lucky won't be until after it has finished.

I'm going to have to watch it again ironically and see if it stands up.  Interesting stuff, falafel, thankee

Junglist

I'm aware it isn't von Trier, but those wishing to dabble in the Dogme idea really need to see Festen.

Jerzy Bondov

Quote from: Junglist on February 04, 2012, 05:31:15 PM
I'm aware it isn't von Trier, but those wishing to dabble in the Dogme idea really need to see Festen.
I love Festen a lot but thinking about it causes me great anguish because I was convinced for a long time that it was by von Trier and went around saying so like a big old fucking idiot. The first half of Melancholia is, I thought, very Festen-like. So awkward that you're longing for the apocalypse before long. Fantastic.

Dark Sky

I got Festen out the library but it was all fuzzy, except if you had it on fast forward, when it looked fine.  So I watched it on fast forward and just read the subtitles as they flashed on-screen really quickly.

Oddly, I have no clue what that film was about.

holyzombiejesus

One of the things that I really enjoy about LVT's films is the thought of him cackling away at some of his more audacious pieces. I love the end credits to Dogville.

Eis Nein

Aye, they were fantastic. It's a great song, which helps. Of course, dim bulbs like Ebert naturally take the film to be anti-American despite its universality, unable to descry the blank canvas.

danyulx

Quote from: Dark Sky on February 04, 2012, 08:36:54 AM
I'm not really convinced by that...  A pisstake of what, exactly?

About 90% of films ever made before its release, in 'Dancer in the Dark's case. Maybe I'm giving Von Trier too much "satirical" credit but I don't think I am.

danyulx

Quote from: Dark Sky on February 04, 2012, 08:36:54 AM
And the thing is, you don't really notice how ridiculous the plot is on your first couple of viewings, because you're so caught up in the realism and the emotion of it.

To me that was the 'point' of this film - not that it needed a "point", nor did I need to read this much into either. Coming up the most daft "Hollywood" plot imaginable then infusing it with as much authentic realism and authentic emotion as possible, enough to get anyone crying. Enough for most viewers - me included - to not even realise what a load of bollocks the film actually is, if you think about it, during the first few viewings, like you say.

Rainer Werner Fassbinder was a master of this too. He had his period of doing a right one-upmanship on Hollywood melodrama as well (just like Von Trier, after first spending his early filmmaking career making some of the most cold, stoical, anti-melodramatic films there are). And making some great films in the process too.

Just to update, I got round to watching Dogville the other night and I was suitably floored by it. Brilliant film. Early on I was unsure if I'd be able to see past the stage-scenery and chalk outlined houses and what not but I needn't have worried. In fact I found the production values a nice (intentional?) touch of humour to an otherwise bleak story. Think I'll splash out on Breaking The Waves too before I get cracking on Kingdom.

Also, Manderlay. Yay or nay? The synopsis reads as a bit of a retread of Dogville.

danyulx

Glad you loved as well. Not many do! That film seems to get an awful lot of bile thrown at it, in fact. I think it's a flat-out masterpiece myself. One of the best films of that decade, if not the best.

'Manderlay' is very good. Well worth a watch. It's effectively a direct sequel, albeit with a completely different cast playing the same characters. It's only a "retread" stylistically really.

Has was originally meant to make a Trilogy - all filmed in the same minimal style - all taking on America - of which those were the first two parts. But he never or has yet to get around to making the third part yet, 'Wasington' [sic].

vrailaine

Dogville has 8/10 from 60,000 ratings on the IMDb, considering how offputting the length and set would almost certainly be to a large number of people, a lot of people must really like it.

danyulx

8? I'm amazed. Everyone I've ever mentioned that film to - who've seen it, or claim to have seen it - have lept at me screaming "I fucking hate that film!"

I concluded this was the general consensus.

buntyman

I rented Dogville from Lovefilm the other day after the praise on here and I was impressed with it too. I wasn't sure what I was meant to take away from it at the end
Spoiler alert
but I think it's less of a downer to interpret it as surprising developments within the context of the fictitious characters on show rather than it being a metaphor for the capabilities of small minded people within small communities of limited wealth. Is that what was being said with the end credits?
[close]

phantom_power

Quote from: vrailaine on February 15, 2012, 08:43:26 PM
Dogville has 8/10 from 60,000 ratings on the IMDb, considering how offputting the length and set would almost certainly be to a large number of people, a lot of people must really like it.

I would have thought the length and 'arty' nature of the film would act as a firewall against people who might not get it so it is more likely to get a good score

vrailaine

Quote from: phantom_power on February 17, 2012, 08:22:57 AM
I would have thought the length and 'arty' nature of the film would act as a firewall against people who might not get it so it is more likely to get a good score
that would seriously reduce it's chances of getting 60,000 votes though.

WesterlyWinds

Just finished watching Dogville, and I thought it was excellent. It almost lost me once or twice as at times it seemed to plod along, but by the end I was thoroughly engrossed. The ending did leave me feeling confused, however. Not in what happened but how I reacted to it.
Spoiler alert
It was an odd sense of enjoyment and horror, I think. I'm not sure I was supposed to enjoy watching Vera cry so much, especially within the context. She hadn't even been the worst of a bad bunch, but for some reason she had really pissed me off.
[close]

Going to watch The Kingdom next as it sounds the most intriguing of the rest of his work I have (very briefly) researched.

wasp_f15ting

I'll have to watch Dogma again, when I watched it a few years ago I hated it..

I liked Antichrist, and Melancholia however his introspection into the human mind, or at least that of females is done in a way which I find is overdone, for example in Antichrist Gainsbourg's character goes off on one, after the "event" but her psyche and the acts she commits are just a bit unbelievable at points.. the same with Dunst's character and her boffing that kid on the Golf Course.. I am not sure why he goes out of his ways to make his female leads utterly unintelligible (maybe that is the point?) 

Custard

I love the Von Trier films I've seen (Antichrist, Dogville), and off the back of this thread I've ordered Dancer In The Dark and Manderlay. Though the wallyface I bought Dancer from on Amazon marketplace has sent the disc only, without the case. So I hate him

Just wanted to share that

Gonna see how I get on with them two, then possibly get The Idiots next. Sounds right up my street. With no case, probably

Bad Ambassador

The Idiots is just LVT showing off. Get Melancholia instead.

Custard

I have seen Melancholia actually, sorry, completely forgot!

Make that three of his films, then!

phantom_power

Quote from: vrailaine on February 17, 2012, 02:15:04 PM
that would seriously reduce it's chances of getting 60,000 votes though.

But again the people watching it are more likely to be passionate about the film and want to register their love for it