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GAME/Gamestation in trouble?

Started by Subtle Mocking, February 29, 2012, 12:12:32 PM

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Subtle Mocking

GAME and Gamestation have revealed that SSX will be the last EA title that they will stock in the coming months, and have cancelled lots of pre-orders for games such as Mass Effect 3, FIFA Street 3, Tiger Woods 13 and Sims 3 Showtime, as revealed in an internal memo: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-29-revealed-games-memo-to-staff-on-mass-effect-3-cancellation

Also, Mario Party 9 has just been cancelled for both stores.. This all comes after they revealed that they would be closing a number of GAME/station stores over the next year (including a fair few near me).

This could be pretty huge for the future of the company if EA are no longer stocked, considering how much the FIFA games and whatnot usually make them within a year. EA are now directing people to online outlets such as (the excellent) Shopto for ME3 pre-orders. What's your opinion on all this? Do we need GAME/station stores on the high street, now we have the likes of Amazon and most supermarkets?

NoSleep

One of the big pulls for me was the secondhand games on sale in shops like Game, and the ability to check the state of the disk before you purchase. As CEX have expanded to more and more town centres meant that I was more likely to look there first, before going to the Game shops (there's two Game shops in the nearest large town centre to me - one in the mall and one a few yards away, outside the mall; you don't even have to turn a corner). In the same strip as I find the two Game shops, there is CEX, as well as HMV. Then, just across the square are two smaller games outlets. All this within a 2 minute walk of one another.

If I were running a chain like Game I would have been looking at shedding the expensive rent of all those high street outlets yonks ago and started selling online. Game don't seem to have taken the games you mention off their website, so I would imagine there will be more than a number of their shops disappearing from high streets. I suppose it could mean that they have made no decision as to which shops are for the chop, so they've let the sword of Damocles hang over ALL the staff at their various outlets instead of letting anyone know their upcoming fortune.

Subtle Mocking

That sounds an awful lot like Manchester city centre. Two HMVs, two (maybe three) GAME stores, two Gamestation stores and two CeX stores, all within about 2 miles of each other. Ridiculous.

Anyway, they've thankfully stated that they're offering full refunds and a £5 store credit for all pre-orders, but it's still a kick in the teeth. There's not an awful lot you can do about the rent on high streets, considering that it's still extortionate on high streets that are half empty, Stockport being an example.

mcbpete

I was wondering if GAME were in trouble too - I've noticed that a lot of the stores have reduced/removed the PC section entirely from their shelves over the last couple of months, and in general the stock levels on-shelf seem to be heavily reduced.

The Masked Unit

I haven't really been keeping track of it but there's been talk on NeoGAF for a good month or so regarding rumours that they're being refused credit by publishers/distributors. Interestingly the local GAME was re-branded as a Gamestation recently. I wonder was the rationale behind that was.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

The ransacking of the high street by land barons needs a good look at by the government. Many of these stores would be able to trade and make money if the rent properly reflected the value of the high street.


We should look at these land barons as a good thing in the short/medium term- as they squeeze their ever dwindling high street chain stores out of existence, and as more companies trade online, the high street rents will have to drop, and it ought to return to being a more local, communal and independent place. That is the natural logic of what is going on.

It would be superb, the re-emergence of small businesses and a competitive market, while the big names duke it out online.

Ignatius_S

I can't remember off the top of my head, but there was a game recently where Game said it would have it at launch, but then admitted it wouldn't.

Quote from: Subtle Mocking on February 29, 2012, 12:12:32 PM... What's your opinion on all this? Do we need GAME/station stores on the high street, now we have the likes of Amazon and most supermarkets?

Last month, it was reported that Game had struck a deal with its suppliers. A major reason why the suppliers went for this is because they're worried about having to rely on supermarkets – basically, they know that they will get a lot less money.

Personally, I do want games shops... and record shops... and book shops... etc. on the high street. These days, the best service I get tends to be when I buy a game, book or record – and quite often, staff will want to get into conversation, not to try and flog me something, but out of a shared passion. Although I can get things cheaper online, sometime I'll make a point of going to a bricks and mortar store because I'm getting more than a product.

On occasions that I've earwigged punters talking to staff in game shops, I've been often pleasantly surprised by how good the standard of service is – I've lost count when someone (particularly older and knowing nothing or next to nothing about what they're buying) has been given good advice and in some cases steered away from something that's more expensive, but wasn't the right product. I'm sure there are horror stories, but my own experiences and the ones of others that I've observed have been good.

Sometimes I might want to get something last minute – e.g. I'm going away or need to get a present – and being able to pop into town is obviously incredibly handy.

Ignatius_S

Quote from: mcbpete on February 29, 2012, 01:10:31 PM
I was wondering if GAME were in trouble too - I've noticed that a lot of the stores have reduced/removed the PC section entirely from their shelves over the last couple of months, and in general the stock levels on-shelf seem to be heavily reduced.

I've noticed that about the stock - in the case of PC games, I think it's more that there's been a direction towards carrying a lot less of that kind of stock, but with other stuff (the Nintendo handheld is great example) is a sign of trouble.

Thursday

Oh well at least the closing down sale might be good.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Quote from: Thursday on February 29, 2012, 01:26:57 PM
Oh well at least the closing down sale might be good.

Pff, this is what people hope for, but in the 2008 banking crash all the stores that went down had absolutely pathetic last minute sales. For instance, Borders in Leeds was discounting comedy series on DVD from £20 to £16. CDs from £13 to £8. You really can't win with these places. All their valuable assets were moved on to their core stores or just seized as they went into administration.


Thursday

Yeah I know, and I do recall that about Borders and Woolworths closing down sales, that anything you might want was already snapped up by someone impatient when it was 20% off rather than waiting until the dying days when things would be 70/80/90%

Neil

I hate their pestering employees, their over-priced pre-owned sales, their launch day release prices of £43, and their refusal to give back pre-order money as cash, instead offering in-store credit.

They got way, way too greedy, and I'll dance and piss on the cunts graves. Simultaneously.

(As mentioned in the SSX thread, earlier in the week I saw Skate 3 for 18 quid pre-owned. Add another 800 ms points for online features. HMV next door had it for 20, new.)

Get the preorder bonus content shipped out to supermarkets/online retailers, and I won't miss these twots one bit.

brat-sampson

Last time I used a retail games store was when gamestation had a genuinely great deal on Skyrim for £19.99 (PC, this was back in late November). Weirdly I got home to discover my PC's DVD drive had been buggered for god-knows how long but managed to use the in-box code to activate it on Steam anyway. For every other occasion it's either Steam or Amazon. These companies have basically spent the last few years leaching money through the pre-owned market* thus fleecing consumers and publishers/developers alike and I won't miss them at all.

*(if you want a guaranteed return value on your purchase, get an eBay account and you'll probably get more than they would offer)

Dark Sky

I don't know if it's the shops getting greedy, or people expecting stuff to be dirt cheap because of mega-online stores bullying their way with publishers to get the best deal possible.  I think it's feeding into the growing idea that there is some kind of consumer right to get stuff as cheap as possible.

Take your new/second hand pricing there, Neil...  Putting aside issues of money spent on used games not going to the creators (which is also true of various games bought new, of course), there is this mindset that a second hand product should be priced at a far lesser price than the same item new.   But why?  With video games surely it really makes next to no difference if someone else has played that copy before you; if the shop is selling it, they should guarantee that it works, is exactly the same as a new copy, and operates in exactly the same way without any virtual biscuit crumbs and digital pizza boxes strewn all around the game world.  By keeping the used price at £18, with only a 10% reduction, it establishes that the contents of that game is worth that amount.  If you want to spend an extra £2 to get the opportunity to piggle off a cellophane wrapper from a brand new copy, you can do.  But the game itself is still worth a specific amount, however many times that disc has been used by other people.

The trouble is that people don't seem to place much value on non-tangible media.  I did a tiny bit of research on attitudes towards digital vs physical media for an MA, and it was obvious that most people expect a digital book to cost the consumer at least 50% less than a physical book, even though the price difference in producing an electronic copy is only a fraction different from that of producing a paperback.  So you get mega-online stores like Amazon bullying publishers into setting ebooks at low, low prices, whilst the rest of the market is trying to keep ebook prices high, to try and reassign value to the written word, whatever its means of distribution.

It seems to be a growing trend, thanks to certain Internet shops, that a sense of value is being lost as consumers have come to expect continuous bargains, and blame struggling high street stores for selling goods at full price ('full price' now being a term often spoken with disgust!).  And I'm as guilty of that as anyone, taking to browse Waterstone's, then ordering stuff I've seen on Amazon for  less than the RRP.  Because of changing consumer attitudes, all these big chain stores will vanish.  Cheapie online and casual supermarket sales will win out. 

But you'll find that tiny indie stores will survive, making money via a dedicated number of customers who value the shop and the stock, and are happy to pay full price for items, whether new or second hand.  Bless them.

buntyman

I have to agree with Neil, I wouldn't want a conversation with any of the employees of GAME if they were the last people left on Earth. Their prices are extortionate, the selection is abysmal and their bothersome staff, from my experience, seem to have an attitude of superiority when ringing up your purchase. I can understand why you get working in independent music shops like this but I don't think you can have a particularly 'cool' taste in games and, if you could, you wouldn't be able to buy them in a place like GAME. I don't know why anyone shops there though other than for having some strange liking for the physical cash for product exchange and wandering about carrying a plastic bag. I don't want to be recognised by any girl I like in the street carrying a GAME carrier bag.

Ignatius_S

Quote from: brat-sampson on February 29, 2012, 04:04:57 PM...These companies have basically spent the last few years leaching money through the pre-owned market* thus fleecing consumers and publishers/developers alike and I won't miss them at all...

Second-hand sales is where the bulk of the money was being made - so that probably says a lot for the business model.

Were people really being fleeced? It's not as if there weren't alternatives - selling on eBay or going to CeX was hardly a secret.

In the last year, I was buying something in Game when the server mentioned that they had a second-hand copy if I was interested - saved me ten pounds one time and £15, the second. As I usually buy games new, I didn't feel too bad.

I suppose it's a moot point about the second-hand market we're heading towards increasingly towards digital-only distribution and paid-for DLC becoming the norm. With the latter, EA is bringing out some for Mass Effect 3 on the day of release but is throwing that in with the Collector's Edition as a sop.

buntyman

Quote from: Dark Sky on February 29, 2012, 04:23:55 PM

Take your new/second hand pricing there, Neil...  Putting aside issues of money spent on used games not going to the creators (which is also true of various games bought new, of course), there is this mindset that a second hand product should be priced at a far lesser price than the same item new.   But why?  With video games surely it really makes next to no difference if someone else has played that copy before you

Not so much these days, a lot of new release games these days include single use codes for accessing areas of content that you would have to buy separately if you bought it second hand. As Neil was saying, the game should be priced at least slightly less that the cost of the the game new when combined with the price of this additional content.

Dark Sky

Quote from: buntyman on February 29, 2012, 04:24:46 PM
I don't want to be recognised by any girl I like in the street carrying a GAME carrier bag.

Why, because video games are nerdy, or because she'll think, "what's he doing going to GAME?  Doesn't he know you could get whatever he's purchased there far cheaper online?!  Idiot."

Dark Sky

Quote from: buntyman on February 29, 2012, 04:29:08 PM
Not so much these days, a lot of new release games these days include single use codes for accessing areas of content that you would have to buy separately if you bought it second hand. As Neil was saying, the game should be priced at least slightly less that the cost of the the game new when combined with the price of this additional content.

Ah, well fair enough - I wasn't realising that.  That's a different kettle of fish altogether, isn't it.  If you're getting a lesser product than someone else because you bought second hand, then I agree - you should pay less (and be warned about it!)  Of course those once-unlocked things are deliberately put into play by publishers trying to weaken the second hand games market; a market which is the only reason why shops like GAME have survived this long.

I've been fooled in the past by purchasing second hand Valve games for PC, which all have to be registered through Steam, of course.  Once the Steam code is unlocked, the physical disc is effectively a coaster.

buntyman

Quote from: Dark Sky on February 29, 2012, 04:29:33 PM
Why, because video games are nerdy, or because she'll think, "what's he doing going to GAME?  Doesn't he know you could get whatever he's purchased there far cheaper online?!  Idiot."

Both! I'm not a proud gamer, often when I'm playing one, I know there's something more worthwhile I could be doing.

Still Not George

Quote from: buntyman on February 29, 2012, 04:33:42 PM
Both! I'm not a proud gamer, often when I'm playing one, I know there's something more worthwhile I could be doing.

Such as what, exactly? Watching TV and masturbating?

As for GAME, fuck'em in the ear, they got what was coming to them.

NoSleep

Quote from: buntyman on February 29, 2012, 04:33:42 PM
Both! I'm not a proud gamer, often when I'm playing one, I know there's something more worthwhile I could be doing.

Any girl that avoids you on account of a Game bag is probably worth avoiding herself. I'd carry one everywhere if I were you.

Famous Mortimer

Quote from: Dark Sky on February 29, 2012, 04:23:55 PM
I did a tiny bit of research on attitudes towards digital vs physical media for an MA, and it was obvious that most people expect a digital book to cost the consumer at least 50% less than a physical book, even though the price difference in producing an electronic copy is only a fraction different from that of producing a paperback.  So you get mega-online stores like Amazon bullying publishers into setting ebooks at low, low prices, whilst the rest of the market is trying to keep ebook prices high, to try and reassign value to the written word, whatever its means of distribution.
What? Isn't the paper, printing, transporting, putting in shops, all quite a bit more expensive than "making" a digital copy? I just don't see how this is close to being true.

Still Not George

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on February 29, 2012, 05:14:26 PM
What? Isn't the paper, printing, transporting, putting in shops, all quite a bit more expensive than "making" a digital copy? I just don't see how this is close to being true.

Transport is a big cost, but in most creative industries virtually all the rest of the cost comes from development. Not least due to the incredible number of parasites attached to every creative industry.

Dark Sky

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on February 29, 2012, 05:14:26 PM
What? Isn't the paper, printing, transporting, putting in shops, all quite a bit more expensive than "making" a digital copy? I just don't see how this is close to being true.

Transport is a good point, but printing is only a few pence at most per copy, and shop storage costs are swallowed by the stores.  There's still cost involved in digital distribution, of course, but the majority of work which goes into a book is author/publisher costs.  There's a consensus by various groups within the ebook industry that ebooks should only be 20% less than the RRP of the physical book which seems fair enough to me, but not to many.  If you wanna get cheap ebooks, go with Amazon and its Kindle.  They bully publishers of all sizes, but the customer gets an incredible deal.

MojoJojo

Well, publishers have set up cartels mirroring the Net Book agreement (look for "This price was set by the publisher").

I dunno, I can only assume that publishing has a truly ridiculous number of parasites[nb]a natural consequence of the Net Book agreement being around for a century or so?[/nb]. If you don't count distribution and printing, I just can't see how you can come up with more than 50 people involved in producing a book. Oh, I suppose more for different languages, but I don't think that counts.

Maybe it's an Ed Reardon influence.

Anyway something which never seems to come up in ebook pricing is the secondhand market. That in in itself should be enough to cut prices significantly; anyone who is a heavy reader either buys second hand or uses the library. I'd say it's the elephant in the room, except no one seems aware of it at all. Invisible elephant then, although I'm peeved to notice this is an analogy that has already been used.

Ignatius_S

eBooks, unlike physical books, aren't exempt from VAT and that won't going to change.

A while ago, The Register ran an article about eBook pricing. It links to a piece by writer Charles Stross, which looks at how books are produced - and that's worth a read.




falafel

I read shitloads, never buy second hand, and don't belong to a library. Proving the rule?

Big Jack McBastard

GAME are the overpriced, default, games shop, every one I've been in has had a mix of gnat-like employees who won't leave you the fuck alone or couldn't-give-a-fuck bods who stare blankly at the opposite wall occasionally moving their hands sideways on the off chance there'll be a box between them. Which I could forgive if they didn't take the piss with their prices, which they do, and so I cannot.

'Ha ha' I think is the right phrase for this, they won't be missed.

Famous Mortimer

Fuck Game, because they have a sign in their window saying "we'll match any local competitors prices". Well, Gamestation had a special offer on something or other (might have been the new Saints Row) but were sold out, so I popped down to Game to take advantage. After three people had got their heads together for a few minutes, they couldn't sell it to me because Gamestation weren't competitors. Well done you guys! And a-online I will go.