Gangster films

[yokel]

So I just rewatched Goodfellas on cable a week ago which means all the cursing was rather humorously replaced with more mild words which took the edge off a bit, but it was still enjoyable nonetheless ( liked when they had to go to Joe Pesci's mother's house and it turns out she made a painting of the man they murdered- I just love that mixture of mundane and dark, dark violence) I also dvred Godfather 1 and 2 that I intend to watch sometime this weekend although I started watching Godfather 1 last night and I just love how the requests to the mafia are just so mundane like when the one guy can't get a part in a movie and what not. I surely would have thought the mafia would have gone after the boys who raped that one man's daughter as described in his opening monologue.
But anyway, what are your favorite ones and which do you really want to see? Here's mine:
Bullhead
the original Scarface with James Cagney
Animal Kingdom
Anyone seen these? Are they any good? Cos I'm excited about seein em.

[Waking Life]

They do go after the guys mentioned in the monologue, it's just not shown on camera.  The book is more pulpy and action orientated if I recall.

Animal Kingdom is definitely worth a watch, although I've not seen the other two.  Always meant to watch the 'orginal' Scarface though, need to hunt it down.

My favourite is Once Upon A Time In America.  Set aside a full evening for it.

[lipsink]

James Cagney isn't in the original Scarface, is he? You're thinking of Public Enemy maybe or White Heat. Anyway, here's some of more I'd recommend:

King Of New York
Donnie Brasco
Ichi the Killer
Thief
Mean Streets
Sonatine
Miller's Crossing
Dead Man's Shoes
Gomorrah
Killing Of A Chinese Bookie
Gozu
Sexy Beast
In Bruges

Also, I hear Little Caesar is worth checking out.

[yokel]

James Cagney isn't in the original Scarface, is he? You're thinking of Public Enemy maybe or White Heat. Anyway, here's some of more I'd recommend:

King Of New York
Donnie Brasco
Ichi the Killer
Thief
Mean Streets
Sonatine
Miller's Crossing
Dead Man's Shoes
Gomorrah
Killing Of A Chinese Bookie
Gozu
Sexy Beast
In Bruges

Also, I hear Little Caesar is worth checking out.

hmm.. interesting sorta diverse list there;some of those strike me as more noir films than gangster although I bet those genres sorta overlap from time to time Thanks for the Cagney info too.

[madhair60]

Bugsy Malone.

*Kisses knuckles, holds fist in the air*

Whereever you are, TBC.

[kidsick5000]

Layer Cake is easily the best of the lock, stock era of Brit gangster film.
And that list really needs a Long Good Friday on it

[WesterlyWinds]

Already mentioned by lipsink, but Miller's Crossing is possibly my favourite gangster film of all time. There are some absolutely brilliant scenes in it and Gabriel Byrne is really good as Tom Reagan. Couldn't recommend it enough.

[phantom_power]

Bugsy Malone.

*Kisses knuckles, holds fist in the air*

Whereever you are, TBC.

I genuinely. unironically love that film, certainly the music.

i think calling Dead Man's Shoes a gangster film is pushing it, even Sexy Beast and In Bruges might be a stretch.

Layer Cake is a very good film. Rock'n'Rolla is pretty good in places as well, though a bit Ritchie-by-numbers.

My favourite is probably Goodfellas though, practically a perfect film as far as I am concerned, though I also love The Godfather, Donnie Brasco and King Of New York

[EOLAN]

Paul Muni plays the lead role in the original Scarface.
Think it got in just before the Hays Commission so plenty of stuff got through that otherwise wouldn't have for a film of its time - particularly all the incest. However, there are some scenes added focusing on the police hunt in an attempt to vilify the character. Director Howard Hawks hated the script for these so much he counld't be arsed filming them - they really jump out as belonging in another film.

For those historians; DW Griffiths (pre Birth of a Nation) short Musketeers of Pig Alley is considered the first gangster film.
Many of the main charcters mannerisms appear to have influenced Cagney.

[CaledonianGonzo]

I haven't seen it yet, but if you have Freeview Film4 have started showing A Prophet, so just a heads up as it's meant to be pretty Gangsta!

[Obel]

Revolver




HAH. Not really.

[Jerzy Bondov]

I like The Roaring Twenties with Cagney and Bogart. It's Cagney's last Warner Bros gangster film and he goes out with a bang. Bogie is great too, a really nasty piece of work. Cagney's character comes back from World War I to find that America has no use for him - all the promises made to him have evaporated in the meantime. It's got that edge of tragedy that the best gangster films have, and a final scene that's hard to beat.

I also thought American Gangster was the first decent Ridley Scott film in a very long time, though not a classic by any means.

[Neomod]

yokel said:

So I just rewatched Goodfellas on cable a week ago which means all the cursing was rather humorously replaced with more mild words which took the edge off a bit, but it was still enjoyable nonetheless

Reminds me of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmRTUNh1vPo

I watched A Prophet for the first time last week, an excellent film. Still haven't got round to watching La Haine and City of God which are waiting on my hard disk but I've heard good things about them.

Me and 'In Bruges' just didn't get on at all. I think I'm on my own there though. Weird as I love Martin McDonagh's stage stuff. I might watch it again.

Don't think anyone has mentioned Villain yet which has a great central performance from Richard Burton. I wonder how well the thinly veiled portrayal of Ronnie Kray went down with Kray who was still alive at the time.

edit: in, on, out, out

[CaledonianGonzo]

I'm another of the In Bruges apostates.  I'll probably watch it again to see if it clicks second time around, but first time through I found it contrived, unamusing and derivative.

Edit:  Also speaking of films I've not got round to watching yet, I have Mesrine here waiting to be watched.

[Serge]

Watch 'Mesrine'! It's fantastic. I liked it so much I started a thread about it. Though talking of films I haven't got around to watching, I picked up 'Public Enemies' for £3 at Christmas and still haven't seen it.

Can't add any further recommendations that haven't already been mentioned, but I will single out 'Donnie Brasco' as being one of the very best, for a very non-glamorous view of gangster life. And 'The Long Good Friday' is the best British gangster movie for me[nb]With 'Get Carter' not far behind.[/nb] - and it has one of the greatest endings of all time.

I've always thought that 'Goodfellas' was pretty much perfect as a film - I've mentioned before that it has a certain rhythm to it that the later and lesser (though still pretty good) 'Casino' lacks.

I suppose 'The Limey' counts? That definitely has to be seen if you haven't already.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Cheers Serge - I'll no doubt get around to Mesrine shortly (or, at least once I've watched Season 3 of Breaking Bad).

Speaking of British gangster movies - and I'll admit that purists may disagree and that it maybe falls slightly outside the narrow remit of the genre - there's always the mighty Performance.

[Ignatius_S]

Some nice suggestions – a few more off the top of my head:

The Glass Key – the Alan Ladd/Veronica Lake version is the most famous (I haven't seen the George Raft one, so I really, really need to track that). Arguably, it's more of a film noir but I'm throwing it in because of the massive influence of Miller's Crossing – some see the latter as effectively being a remake. The central character in The Glass Key is the indispensible right-hand man (with a gambling habit) to a corrupt political boss, with links to graft and organised crime, and who runs the town – and whose power is threatened with an upcoming mob war.

Sorry, this is a bit of a tangent... There are claims that The Glass Key was an influence on Yojimbo (which then became A Fistful of Dollars) and I believe Kurosawa admitted this – certainly elements of that story are reminiscent of The Glass Key and another Hammett tale, Red Harvest. In the 1942 film, there's a scene where Ladd's character has been badly beaten up and the two thugs who did it are relaxing playing cards – in Yojimbo there's a scene where hero Sanjuro, has been beaten up, when he comes to his actions are very similar Ladd's in The Glass Key, whilst Sanjuro's attackers are playing... cards.

Any of Bogart's early pictures where he's the second banana to the big boss - Jerzy Bondov has mentioned a good one – often getting shot by Cagney or Robinson, or appearing in a variety of B-movies . Not a particularly happy period in the actor's career, as he (with some justification) felt poorly treated. Two landmarks films I would particularly recommend are The Petrified Forest and High Sierra. (As an aside, if anyone is interested in reading a particularly good Bogart biography, try Bogart by Sperber and Lax.

The Petrified Forest – Bogart had played the role of gangster on the run, Duke Mantee in the stage play to great acclaim, and it lead him getting into films. Apparently, Bogart only got the role because the star, Leslie Howard would have refused to do the film if Bogart didn't – something he never forgot.  The film very much comes off as if's based on a play and strictly speaking isn't a 'gangster' film – but this was an important role for Bogart and his rapport with Howard is extraordinary.

High Sierra – I'm going to say very little about this, but it's absolutely brilliant. Bogart plays 'Mad Dog' Roy Earle, who's rather more complex and sympathetic than his name suggests – and it was to be the final time that he didn't get top billing (Ida Lupino did in this film and she's incredible).

City Streets – Gary Cooper plays 'The Kid', a shooting gallery showman who a gangster's daughter fall for. She and her father press him to join the mob, which he refuses until the girl takes a rap for something she didn't do. Hammett provided the story and it's understandably regarded as one of the very best.

Gun Crazy – fabulously entertaining B-picture in the lovers on the run mould, which would prove to be a huge influence on Arthur Penn's Bonnie and Clyde.

Dillinger by John Milius. Warren Oates as – unsurprisingly – fantastic in the lead... absolutely outstanding.  There's decent support - e.g. Harry Dean Stanton, Geoffrey Lewis and, believe it or not, Richard Dreyfuss.

The St. Valentine's Day Massacre by Roger Corman - actually made for one of the big studios and is very, very good indeed. Rather interesting cast – Jason Robards plays Capone and Corman actually wanted Orson Welles, but thought he would never go for it. When they met a good time later, Welles said he would have loved to have been cast in that part... what might have been!

[Blumf]

I'll give I'll Sleep When I'm Dead a shout. A revenge drama, like Get Carter, but less action. It's got a nice slow pace to it, good for a quiet late night.

Also, put me on the In Bruges detractor list. I liked Gleeson's character, interesting idea there, but the rest of it was iffy. Too much of it felt forced, trying to hit references rather than coming to them naturally. It didn't help that, for some reason, Farrell's character seemed to have severe learning difficulties. Kept on pulling me out of the story as I was wondering why anybody would hire a special needs case to be a hitman.

[Ignatius_S]

.... I also dvred Godfather 1 and 2 that I intend to watch sometime this weekend although I started watching Godfather 1 last night and I just love how the requests to the mafia are just so mundane like when the one guy can't get a part in a movie and what not. I surely would have thought the mafia would have gone after the boys who raped that one man's daughter as described in his opening monologue.....

The actor/singer who can't get that part is Johnny Fontaine and his career is on the rocks – the part in question will turn it around. In the book, there are more details – for example, there's problems with his voice so the singing career looks over.

The daughter badly beaten up, but not sexually assaulted. Her father says something like: "She fought them – she kept her honour." The father had gone to the authorities and had generally avoided the Corleone family, even though the Don's wife was godmother to the daughter, so there would have been no automatic intervention.

Something that's in the book, but not the film, is that in order not to get the baker's assistant deported, bribes to be made and the baker is to hand over $5,000 (I think) to Tom Hagen.

They do go after the guys mentioned in the monologue, it's just not shown on camera.  The book is more pulpy and action orientated if I recall....

It's certainly a potboiler – and it's really the sexual content that's increased; in that way, it's very much of its time. On the other hand, there's more detail into various aspects (e.g. how the 'families' work) – it doesn't always work, but I would say that the mob are shown in a less flattering light.

...i think calling Dead Man's Shoes a gangster film is pushing it ....

Yes, I'd be inclined that 'revenger's tragedy' is a better description – but I would give it.

Paul Muni plays the lead role in the original Scarface.
Think it got in just before the Hays Commission so plenty of stuff got through that otherwise wouldn't have for a film of its time - particularly all the incest. However, there are some scenes added focusing on the police hunt in an attempt to vilify the character. Director Howard Hawks hated the script for these so much he counld't be arsed filming them - they really jump out as belonging in another film....

According to a couple of books, including one about Howard Hughes that goes into a lot of details about production of key films, there weren't any new footage shot but the old scenes re-edited to appease the censors. When it didn't, Hawks weren't back to the new version. The Hays Office was up and running and wanted to script revisions, but Hughes told them to go ahead. I've had a quick look at Wikipedia and the account there is the same – however, to my shame, I haven't read nearly enough about Hawks and Wikipedia can't always be relied upon, so you might be right.

One thing I was going to say about Scarface is that In Some Like It Hot, when George Raft grabs the coin that gunman is flipping, shoves it into his top pocket and snarls "Where did you pick up that cheap trick?", it's a referencing Raft's coin-flipping character in Scarface. The flipper in Some Like It Hot is Edward G. Robinson's son, fact fans.

...Don't think anyone has mentioned Villain yet which has a great central performance from Richard Burton...

No but I was going to. *tips hat*

Watch 'Mesrine'! It's fantastic. I liked it so much I started a thread about it..., for a very non-glamorous view of gangster life. And 'The Long Good Friday' is the best British gangster movie for me[nb]With 'Get Carter' not far behind.[/nb] - and it has one of the greatest endings of all time....

Great picks... but as I was going to suggest those, I would say that!

I'll give I'll Sleep When I'm Dead a shout. A revenge drama, like Get Carter, but less action. It's got a nice slow pace to it, good for a quiet late night....

It does a lovely leisurely pace. I'm a big fan of all concerned and I'll watch Malcolm McDowell in anything, and I do mean anything, but was a little disappointed  – but I'm glad to see someone mention it.

Speaking of McDowell, I would have to also add Gangster No. 1.

[Phil_A]

I still haven't the seen the Sam Riley/Andrea Riseborough version, but the 1947 adaptation of Brighton Rock, with a youthful Dickie Attenborough as baby-faced psycho Pinkie Brown, is a stone-cold classic.

This unsparing, brutal look at the British criminal underbelly stars Richard Attenborough as Pinkie Brown, a pock-marked gang leader. While leading his men in a racetrack robbery, Pinkie kills a man. He convinces pretty waitress Rose (Carol Marsh) to provide him with an alibi, promising to marry her in exchange. After the wedding, the sociopathic Pinkie conducts a slow and careful campaign to drive his young wife to suicide. A moody, well-acted film with a stunning performance by the 24-year-old Attenborough, Brighton Rock is notable for bringing a new vicious realism to British crime cinema. Adapted by Terrance Rattigan and Graham Greene, from Greene's novel, the screenplay is superlative. The grim realism and sordid subject matter of the film is striking, handled by twin filmmakers Roy and John Boulting, who use mood and dark, stark photography to convey an almost palpable sense of dread.

[Neomod]

Have they released the 2 Mesrine films in one package now. I remember seeing both at the cinema and Cassel was superb.

That end sequence in The Long Good Friday is indeed superb. http://youtu.be/_9SG-zYvPjk

For some reason I had thought Roy Budd had done the score as it was similar to Who Dares Wins but apparently not.

"There's been an Eruuuuuuption!"

[Hank Venture]

I haven't seen it yet, but if you have Freeview Film4 have started showing A Prophet, so just a heads up as it's meant to be pretty Gangsta!

Yes! It is brilliant. One of my favourites in the genre.

[Neomod]

the 1947 adaptation of Brighton Rock, with a youthful Dickie Attenborough as baby-faced psycho Pinkie Brown, is a stone-cold classic.

The whole film has some of the best casting I think i've ever seen.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Have they released the 2 Mesrine films in one package now. I remember seeing both at the cinema and Cassel was superb.

It's the main reason I bought it - both films on Blu Ray for £6 or £7.

[Utter Shit]

I vaguely remember Snatch being given quite a hard time on here, but I think it's brilliant - a great story told with wit and intelligence. I'm not a fan of a lot of Ritchie's other stuff but Snatch and Lock, Stock are both fantastic films IMO. Also, I'd have Brick Top near the top of my favourite ever movie villains. Just a real nasty bastard.

[El Unicornio, mang]

The actor/singer who can't get that part is Johnny Fontaine and his career is on the rocks – the part in question will turn it around. In the book, there are more details – for example, there's problems with his voice so the singing career looks over.

Also, in the book (and featured in a few of the deleted scenes on the DVD), Woltz is shown to be molesting a young girl (she's the one you see with the pony in the theatrical cut. In the deleted scene you see her, clearly having been horribly ravaged, being led away by her mother who it seems has supplied her to him in exchange for a part in a movie). The Don hears about this and is obviously quite a bit more determined to make things difficult for him. (From what I recall she's younger in the book, something about him only being able to get aroused by pre-teens)

Here are the scenes in question:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx5NL1WZfdQ

[CaledonianGonzo]

Speaking of Gangster films, has ever a movie been so badly serviced in terms of home format releases as Goodfellas?  From dual-sided DVDs to rubbish picture quality, I am really surprised by how shoddily its been treated.

[El Unicornio, mang]

The special-edition Goodfellas DVD has a couple of fantastic commentaries, and a good making of documentary. The picture quality for the film has never been great, but I think it has more to do with the source/film stock not being up to scratch. The blu-ray is quite a big improvement, but I don't think it's ever going to look fantastic. It is older than people realise, also. It was made in 1989 (released in 1990).

Info and picture comparisons here

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare5/goodfellas.htm

[Ignatius_S]

Also, in the book (and featured in a few of the deleted scenes on the DVD), Woltz is shown to be molesting a young girl (she's the one you see with the pony in the theatrical cut. In the deleted scene you see her, clearly having been horribly ravaged, being led away by her mother who it seems has supplied her to him in exchange for a part in a movie). The Don hears about this and is obviously quite a bit more determined to make things difficult for him. (From what I recall she's younger in the book, something about him only being able to get aroused by pre-teens)...

Actually, I was going to mention that – but I didn't know about the deleted scenes and hadn't put two and two together about the girl in the theatrical cut (although you, I've only very recently read the book) so cheers! Believe it or not, The Godfather is one of my favourite all-time favourites but I haven't watched the deleted scenes – or have any real knowledge of them for that matter!

You're right about the book, I think she's about 12 and Hagen's absolutely disgusted by the realisation of what's happened and the general morality in showbusiness.

Speaking of Gangster films, has ever a movie been so badly serviced in terms of home format releases as Goodfellas?  From dual-sided DVDs to rubbish picture quality, I am really surprised by how shoddily its been treated.

Well, at least you can easily get it – which can't be said of all films that deserve to be!

Really good point you raised – and hitching onto that back of that, I'd be interested in hearing if people can recommend particularly good releases for gangster film... I have a need to expand my collection!

*edit* I have my first - ta!

[El Unicornio, mang]

Actually, I was going to mention that – but I didn't know about the deleted scenes and hadn't put two and two together about the girl in the theatrical cut (although you, I've only very recently read the book) so cheers! Believe it or not, The Godfather is one of my favourite all-time favourites but I haven't watched the deleted scenes – or have any real knowledge of them for that matter!

There are a ton of deleted scenes for the three films. The best ones are the ones for Godfather II, a load of interesting scenes such as Vito seeing Fanucci get his throat cut, Clemenza giving a woman some dresses in exchange for rumpy pumpy, testing out some guns, and killing the men who killed his family members. If you download the Godfather Saga (which I think was only shown on TV and released on laserdisc), it puts all the deleted scenes back into the film and cuts it all together chronologically. Doesn't work as well but interesting to see the cut scenes put back into the narrative. Makes Vito appear a lot more brutal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Godfather_Saga

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W10us4Q-cb4