Gangster films

[Ignatius_S]

I have to second Ignatius_S' recommendation of Gangster No 1. I saw it last week and it's absolutely marvellous. I'm surprised it isn't more highly regarded; it seems to have been overshadowed by Sexy Beast in the early 2000s British gangster pantheon....

Super to hear you liked it so much – Bettany gives a virtuoso performance as you say. I think one of my friend thought the way you did about the 'idealised memory', which I think is just a lovely idea.

Speaking of Sexy Beast, McDowell was offered that film – basically, the writers of Gangster No.1 fell out with the producers of the film adaptation and so penned SB. I remember McDowell being interviewed on the Big Breakfast (he was on fine, fun form) and asked if it was true that he had been lined up for SB – he said he had, but said he thought doing two gangster movies in rapid succession was one too many; at the time, it sounded very plausible but thought he was choosing his words very carefully. From what I've been managed to glean was although the writers were keen for him to do Sexy Beast, due to the bad blood, he could only be in one film so chose Gangster No. 1.

[shiftwork2]

Speaking of Sexy Beast, McDowell was offered that film

That's interesting.  Ray Winstone makes such easy work of comfy-flabby Gal Dove that I can't see McDowell in it at all.  Unless you mean he was offered another role.

[Nuclear Optimism]

Presumably Gandhi.

[Doomy Dwyer]

It's not really a full on gangster film as such, but 'Nil By Mouth' offers a pretty accurate glimpse of low end toe raggery. I remember reading an interview with Gary Oldman who was bemoaning the fact that there were no British Gangster films that were equivalent to 'Mean Streets' in terms of focus on street level gangsterism. Presumably this state of affairs pissed him off so much that he made one himself. It focuses on the day to day mundanity of 'the life', the headache of scratching around to keep ahead and the casual brutality. And the nasty combination of charisma and fucking terrifying violence that a lot of these arseholes carry around with them. It's a truly horrible film. It stays with you. As well as brilliant performances by Ray Winstone and lovely Kathy Burke, Jamie Foreman is amazing in this.

[yokel]

Ah christ, sorry y'all, for abandoning you. So we lost our tv for a day or two and thus, my dvring of Godfather 2 got erased. :( But I did recently borrow Puzo's novel from my cousins and intend to give 'er a read soon. Right now, I'm on a tiny horror movie kick (watched a bit of THEM today, good fun yet not as exciting as Godzilla), but I still intend to get my damn mitts on Animal kingdom and  Bullhead.

[Mini]

The new film Wild Bill is very good. Not really a gangster film, but kinda

[Custard]

^ Yup, wanna see that

Watched Gangster No.1 this morning, due to this thread, and really enjoyed it. Like the sort of film Guy Ritchie tries to make, but far more solid and entertaining. Supoib cast, too

Gonna watch King Of New York shortly, as I've not seen that in years

[El Unicornio, mang]

Just bumping this to say that The Godfather Saga, which is The Godfather edited into chronological order and featuring 75 minutes of new footage (included as deleted scenes on the DVD) was shown on TV for the first time a few weeks ago, on AMC in the US. The exciting thing about this is that it's the first time the cut scenes have been available in HD and 16:9, rather than the 4:3, low quality images on the DVDs. It's already been added to some private trackers, and fan edits are underway (to replace scenes edited for language/violence on the TV screening with the blu-ray versions), hopefully it will be available on regular torrent sites soon.

[yorkshirecynic]

The Godfather Saga, how long is that?

[El Unicornio, mang]

There are a few different versions, but the one they showed the other week was 434 minutes, so 7hrs 14 mins. It's only the first two films though, so you could add the third film if you wanted, bringing the total to almost exactly 10 hours.

Quick example of DVD deleted scene vs. AMC HD scene

[graffic]

The thing I dislike about American gangster movies like Godfather and Goodfellas is the gangsters are indistinguishable from ordinary Italian Americans, and they sound the same as any American. They wear suits, display false politeness and you are in the uncomfortable position as a viewer of having mixed feelings and feeling you should like the double crossing, wife slapping murderers compared to British gangster flicks where you know the thugs are thugs by the way they speak and behave. There is also a history of mobs paying hollywood to portray them in a glamorous light.

[thepuffpastryhangman]

It's the dynasty effect. The US gangsters have hierarchy, rules, tradition, procedures. The UK lot are usually one off family firms, there's never time establish a sense of order.

[shiftwork2]

Wiseguy Henry Hill has died.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-18422867

[Virgo76]

He did it his way...
How accurate was Goodfellas?
I somehow found Ray Liotta much cooler in the film than HH was in real life. The real Henry Hill always seemed  bit disappointing in comparison.
This is probably testament to Scorsese as let's face it...Liotta's usually awful in most things.
I also find it hard to believe HH was never involved in a murder when everyone around him seems to have been. Probably because it was his version of the story I assume.
p.s. Just watched Public Enemies. Zzzzzzzzzzz.

[Serge]

"Now I get to be buried like an ordinary schmo."

[Gulftastic]

I also find it hard to believe HH was never involved in a murder when everyone around him seems to have been. Probably because it was his version of the story I assume.

You missed the whole section about Billy Batts, then?

Although, I think you make a fair point. Even in the book 'Wiseguy', he is never the killer in any situation.

There was talk of doing a TV series about Henry Hill, and there is potential. In the book, there is more about when he was growing up and the surrounding neighbourhood, his time as a bookie, his time in the army, his stolen car ring, his loan sharking, his points shaving scheme in college basketball games, prison. The only problem it would have would be the inevitable comparisons to Scorsese's film.

[Sam]

Road to Perdition.

Taken as a whole, it's not in the class of many films in this thread. You could even call it slight.

However, it is literally one of the most beautifully shot films ever made. This is due to Conrad L Hall, a true genius of modern cinema. The poignant ending is emphasised by the dedication at the end. His last film and there's a lifetime's skill and craftsmanship in their. Just watch the scene where Paul Newman meets his end. The guy could do rain like no one else.

I also think the combination of Hall's photography with Thomas Newman's music is sublime in places. Disregarding the plot and dialogue look and sound in the film are breathtaking.

Apart from the photography and music the rest of the film is very solid and measured. Good performances all round, great in the case of Newman.

The film is totally overlooked. It's far better than American Beauty and a decent example of it's genre.

[Custard]

^ agreed. Watched it recently. Vehhhh gut

[Virgo76]

I appreciate he was there at the time of the Billy Batts killing but in the film he never actually helps kill him. It seems odd how he just stands to one side as Jimmy and Tommy do it all.
Tommy seems to be an amalgam of several real people anyway, mind you.

[Calistan]

I remember Hill or someone saying Pesci's portrayal of Tommy was spot on. He claimed the only difference was that the real Tommy was ruddy massive.

I watched The Long Good Friday after someone recommended it here. Quite good, especially Hopkins in the leading role. The music was glorious in places, despite being rather bombastic!

[Virgo76]

Hoskins?

[Calistan]

Woopsydoodle! I now want to see Anthony Hopkins play a gangster. According to IMDB he's had over 100 acting roles so it's likely he already has..

[Cohaagen]

Wiseguy Henry Hill has died.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-18422867

Mark "Chopper" Read has advanced liver cancer and isn't far off joining him by the looks of it:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/mark-chopper-read-not-sorry-or-afraid-to-die-of-cancer/story-e6frf7jo-1226339289619

[Saucer51]

I did wonder about how complicit the real Henry Hill would have been in the killings. I suppose it's important to remember that he wasn't a "made" guy, something to do with him being ruled out for not being 100% Italian (how true?). As he wasn't officially in the mob, it's quite feasible that he couldn't be compelled to do any crime. In fact, weren't most of the killings around him carried out by Tommy D and Jimmy Conway, neither of who were made guys either?

[El Unicornio, mang]

Yes, and it should be noted that Tommy and Jimmy were, to all intents and purposes, psychopaths who actually got enjoyment out of killing, or committed then in fits of rage. Henry was pretty level headed (he didn't suffer the kind of unrelenting childhood abuse that Jimmy and Tommy did, for one thing) with a relatively stable background. Jimmy and Tommy would no doubt have committed murders even if they weren't involved with the mafia.

[Default to the negative]

The film also sidestepped the issue of prison bummings. Hill tells us that mob guys got whatever they wanted on the inside, be it wine, fancy food, whatever. So the guards probably turned a blind eye whenever the resident cross-dressers were herded into the cells of the mafiosos.

[Virgo76]

Yes, and it should be noted that Tommy and Jimmy were, to all intents and purposes, psychopaths who actually got enjoyment out of killing, or committed then in fits of rage. Henry was pretty level headed (he didn't suffer the kind of unrelenting childhood abuse that Jimmy and Tommy did, for one thing) with a relatively stable background. Jimmy and Tommy would no doubt have committed murders even if they weren't involved with the mafia.

Henry wasn't exactly level headed by the end of the film (helecopters etc) and he is beaten by his dad in one scene. But, yes, point taken!

I don't quite enjoy the 1980s bit of the film as much. After Tommy dies and when Henry starts seeing the helecopter I mean.
It's good. I can't put my finger on why I like it less though. It sort of feels like a different film.

I like the very end though esp. Joe Pesci doing the Great Train Robbery firing at the screen bit.

At the risk of sounding like a boring Comprehension exercise at Junior School though: what is your reaction to Henry's final words in the film? (I'm an average nobody etc...) What are we supposed to think?

[El Unicornio, mang]

I much prefer the pre-80s stuff too, but I do think the last hour is great in its own way.

His final words caused a lot of outrage with test screenings, apparently, people being so angered that he was basically rescued from certain death by the FBI, but was complaining about it. From what he says on the commentary, and in interviews, he was actually massively grateful to be saved from living in fear every day, and felt like he had been reborn. However, I think it was true to say that the lifestyle is very exciting (albeit short as anyone who doesn't enter witness protection is usually dead or in prison before they reach 30) and to suddenly be living a normal suburban life is somewhat of a comedown.

[Nuclear Optimism]

I'm sure he actually killed people, but he'd be a fool to admit that in a book.

[Dead kate moss]

They make cool movie characters, but all these people are fucking scum, lets be honest.