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March 28, 2024, 09:07:14 AM

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Windows 8

Started by falafel, March 01, 2012, 08:57:58 PM

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falafel

Just downloading the beta ("preview"? pah) now. Tried the developer version for laughs, thought it was a bit weird and way too touch-oriented to survive outside the tablet world. Everything's so much bigger that you have to move the mouse miles, all over the screen, to get anything done. Case in point: the new fullscreen IE10 where tabs are about ten feet wide so that fat fingers can get to them - it just feels really laborious after being able to switch tabs on contemporary browsers by moving the mouse half a centimetre to the left.

And then there's still the desktop. Ridiculous, totally out of sync with the experience, it kind of makes it feel like Windows Media Centre has taken over your computer and hidden your start menu.

It's pretty, but utterly consumer orientated, and utterly consumption & comment oriented at that. There's no allowance for business, creative work or, to be honest, actual multitasking in the whole Metro system, as far as I can see.

But maybe the newer version feels a bit less clunky.

Am I right or wrong? It's getting good buzz, maybe most people are just using it for tablets.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

I think Windows 7 is a stonkingly good IE, I'm not really sure why Windows 8 is on its way so quickly.

El Unicornio, mang

I think they're just trying to keep up with the tablet market. Windows 7 is ace and I can't imagine wanting to change it.

falafel

Yeah, 7 is almost too good., in a way that OS X for example really actually isn't, despite what everyone says. Until computers become radically, radically different, this is all I want.

Maybe if I got a touchscreen laptop it would be tempting though.

biggytitbo

Isnt the metro ui meant solely for running on a tablet with the normal OS underneath for desktops and laptops? Not really sure you're meant to use both.

falafel

No choice. No start menu any more. You launch apps from Metro, settings and multitasking are handled in Metro. It feels really awkward to use both but you're forced to - a very uneasy partnership, from prior experience (consumer preview only just finished downloadinhg). Unless you've found another way?

Slaaaaabs

I expect the Start Menu will be in there at retail whether as a control panel option or a registry hack.

Artemis

7 is the new XP. I'd imagine very few people will be shifting from it until MS learn their lessons and demonstrate that in the new build.

I'm glad they're releasing 8 so soon - means I can upgrade Vista to 7 for next to nothing.

Vista really isn't all that bad either to be honest, after the Service Packs - I haven't had any issues with it since building this PC in the summer of 2008. Only thing I'd upgrade to 7 for is the apparently reduced operating load on system resources.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Vista turned out to be alright after the updates actually, I'm using it at the moment and it's been really stable. Windows 7 is still like a whole other world. You know what's good about it? Rather than being the flashiest or having the most gimmicks- it's just all really functional and makes sense. It's intuitive as fuck. It kicks arse.

I think it's similar in spirit to 3.1 in that it has the most superficially stripped down and minimalist mainframe but has a hell of a lot going on in the background and rarely do you try and get it to do something and it doesn't respond.

Windows 7 is the first truly worthwhile OS Microsoft made since 3.11 for Workgroups[nb]being unfair on XP perhaps, but that was an idea, rather than a fleshed out execution[/nb], though I do have a soft spot for Windows Me. While it might have been unstable and crashed it did so in the most predictable reassurring ways :)

Obviously, they want to get onto the tablet scene, but they don't want to fragment their userbase with a separate tablet edition of Windows.

I think it's going to be interesting to see how the ARM support works out. And Windows Phone 8 (current version = 7.5) and Windows 8 will have a lot in common, sharing a kernel. Using the same apps on both your computer, tablet, and phone might be neat.

http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windows8/windows-phone-8-preview-142154

biggytitbo

Quote from: Slaaaaabs on March 01, 2012, 11:58:14 PM
I expect the Start Menu will be in there at retail whether as a control panel option or a registry hack.
Absolutely guaranteed!

biggytitbo

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on March 02, 2012, 03:00:08 AM
Vista turned out to be alright after the updates actually, I'm using it at the moment and it's been really stable. Windows 7 is still like a whole other world. You know what's good about it? Rather than being the flashiest or having the most gimmicks- it's just all really functional and makes sense. It's intuitive as fuck. It kicks arse.
Very true, its everything OSX isn't, just a joy to use for all the basic of tasks of an OS, folder and file management, window management, stability and speed -  lovely.

Replies From View

Call me old-fashioned, but:


C:\>


Is all that was ever needed.

MojoJojo

Quote from: Slaaaaabs on March 01, 2012, 11:58:14 PM
I expect the Start Menu will be in there at retail whether as a control panel option or a registry hack.

I'm sure the the thing I read on the register yesterday said that the start menu is still there in the bottom left, just doesn't have an icon. Apparently important functions are tied to each corner.

Uncle TechTip

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on March 02, 2012, 03:00:08 AM
Windows 7 is the first truly worthwhile OS Microsoft made since 3.11 for Workgroups[nb]being unfair on XP perhaps, but that was an idea, rather than a fleshed out execution[/nb], though I do have a soft spot for Windows Me. While it might have been unstable and crashed it did so in the most predictable reassurring ways :)

You must be pulling our collective leg. XP was just "an idea", which found itself on 90% of desktops, and was fairly stable and compatible? Windows Me was notable in any way? if you want significance then you could even point to 95/98, which kickstarted the internet for most people.

As always, it's the alternate Windows releases which are worthwhile, so on that basis Win8 will go nowhere and I bet Win9 rehabilitates the desktop.

SetToStun

I'd go for NT 4.0 being the real daddy of it all, myself. 3.11 was good, granted, but all the very best stuff started with NT 3.5 and 4.0 perfected it. I found 95 a wee bit flaky in places and Me was utterly pointless in a world that had the superb Windows 2000. XP pissed all over Vista from a useability point of view and I only use 7 at work so I don't know if that's addressed the usability issues properly for the average consumer.

Still, I'll be interested to have a look at 8 eventually - it looks different enough to be worth a crack.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

QuoteYou must be pulling our collective leg.

Just a bit drowsy and drunk at that point in the evening. I'm just surprised at how utterly old it feels these days, and was never a huge fan.

QuoteXP pissed all over Vista from a useability point of view

Yes, to start with, I think Vista is more of a leg-up to Windows 7 really. All the problems Vista had helped make Windows 7 that much better. Not much solace to its users obviously, but the service packs make Vista pretty decent.

falafel

Quote from: MojoJojo on March 02, 2012, 10:54:02 AM
I'm sure the the thing I read on the register yesterday said that the start menu is still there in the bottom left, just doesn't have an icon. Apparently important functions are tied to each corner.

Not so much. Not recognisably so. Four options I think you get, not like the old start menu in any sense apart from location. Its all about the Start Screen now.

I seriously doubt they will implement a full start menu and it just seems too far gone to be hackable-in.

Blumf

I thought the idea was a Metro based start screen and then you can drop back to the normal desktop. Is this not the case?

Wilbur

Quote from: falafel on March 01, 2012, 09:07:42 PM
Yeah, 7 is almost too good., in a way that OS X for example really actually isn't, despite what everyone says. Until computers become radically, radically different, this is all I want.

Maybe if I got a touchscreen laptop it would be tempting though.

I will put money on the gimmick of that and the filthy screen will last about 3 weeks before you revert to using it as a normal screen. Touchscreens for tube maps in stations and information terminals fine. Even phones I begrudgingly admit. Full size machines = gimmick.

Subtle Mocking

Well, I've been an idiot and decided to try it, failing to realise that you can't directly downgrade without formatting the hard drive. I don't know, the new start menu is pretty and all, but it's such a mess. Why should you have to right click to be able to find all of your installed applications?

I know it's a beta, but...neurgh. Can't be arsed. Don't bother unless you have a) a back-up utility, and b) your original Windows disc.

The Masked Unit

Quote from: Replies From View on March 02, 2012, 10:36:47 AM
Call me old-fashioned, but:


C:\>


Is all that was ever needed.

Certainly keeps the riff-raff out.

Slaaaaabs

To be honest the best way to implement a "classic" start menu would be to offer a mid-point between the regular desktop and full screen Metro. A smaller simplified Metro-fied Start Menu could look similar to the Windows Phone 7 UI for example, have that pop up when you single click the Start Menu/Windows key and have a double click/hold bring up the Metro front-end.

Milo

My first impressions of this were just that it's now way clumsier to accomplish any tasks. And also that it's basically impossible to dual-boot with it unless you let it run the bootloader - I didn't particularly want to do this as it'd cause hassle when I removed it.

falafel

Yeah, got the bootloader issue now.

With the 7 beta, I upgraded after a day or so (I've got backups so not bothered about potential issues) but with this, I'm finding it hard to imagine any benefits. Plus I have a dual monitor setup with the second monitor to my left, which makes the whole 'corners' thing exceptionally frustrating. Getting rid of chrome is great until it starts to degrade functionality. This is some dumbed down shit - the opposite of Vista, not in a good way.

I may change my mind.

falafel

Oh and has anyone worked out how to group their apps (like in the videos when they zoom out)?

Obel

I tend to look at this through an end user experience perspective as I'm an IT guy and it has to be said... it's fucking terrible. It took me ages to find the control panel, it's not intuitive in the least. Pretending the Metro interface is better than the start menu is so backwards... people are used to the start menu now I think - having to relearn the interface is abysmal.

Personally I think it's too soon and most likely this is a repeat of Vista.

falafel

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2012/mar/05/windows-8-desktop-experience

Sums it up. It's two different experiences - the desktop could have been a nice improvement on 7 (task manager is heaps better) and the Metro stuff is fine for tablets, but the two go together like aubergines and custard.