iPad 3

[VegaLA]

What I find quite shocking with Apple isn't so much the company themselves as the people who rush out and buy the latest iPad, iPhone or whatever else it is. Apple are geniuses in some respects because they've managed to get themselves in a position where people will unquestionably just go out and buy a new iPad on launch day even though they have an iPad 1 and 2. I bet you that 100% of the people who fall over themselves to buy an iPad 3 this weekend will already own an iPad 2. For hardcore Apple devotees, who are all pretty much in a certain financial demographic, spending 400 quid or so (and probably a lot more) every year on the latest iGadget is absolutely nothing.
Apple don't give much of a toss about backwards compatibility, especially on their consumer goods, why would they when people are quite happy to part with them after a year.

Shocking? It fucking scares me!
How is it that when you get chatting to an Apple user and they find out you use another product, be it HTC/Android for a phone, Samsung for tablet, PC/Windows for computing they insist you get into some sort of side by side pissing contest then and there so they can point out any faults and convince you that you need to buy the Apple equivalent? I've never met any other group of people so blindly devoted to one company that try so hard to convince you to join them.
I live with an Apple user, she has to reset her Wifi every night when surfing, I don't have that problem with my Android Asus Transformer.

Spoiler alert

Also, iPhone users, the interface looks like 90s throwback shit. How'd you like dem Apples?

[close]

[Ignatius_S]

The camera unlock is growing on me, to be honest...

Very pleased with that feature - also, I thought the file size of an app/update that can downloaded over 3G being increased to 50MB was decent.

Other than that, I expected battery improvements for the 4S (more on that in a mo) but otherwise a maintenance upgrade for the introduction of a new device as I mentioned, so nothing too major.

...Are you finding your battery life less good since the update, by any chance?  When I first got the 4S I followed all the various bits of advice to optimise battery use, and it's not been that bad.  The 5.01 update made little or no difference either way, but since updating to 5.1 battery life has become really poor for me.  Twice now I've found my phone running out of charge while I'm out and about, when previously it'd last me until home.

Possibly, but I haven't had a chance to check and since the update, the reception areas I've been in are poor and I've been using cellular data heavily.

Also, these days I pay very little attention to battery life. Basically, not long after I went from the iPhone 4 from the 3, I wasn't monitoring it because I just didn't need to. I was shocked to realise when I forgot to recharge it overnight for the first time, I had more than enough power to see me through the day. Previously, if I was travelling all day I would have to ration the usage, which hasn't been the case with the 4.

However, I suspect that there has been a decrease with the previous update. However, I don't think I've done a full battery charge (i.e. let the battery run down entirely), which is meant to help battery calibration and something that you're meant to do each month. I'm in the process of doing that and will then have a look at battery is faring.

I'll probably be checking some forums about this when I've some time and I'll let you know if I've found anything. As well as letting the battery run down, doing a hard reset (holding the power and home buttons until the silver apple appears) can sometimes help (I've read that it's a good idea to do a hard reset every week as a matter of routine) - although you may have already done this, but thought it worth a mention just in case. I've read quite a few iPhone 4S users who have seen improvements in the battery since the update, but some seem to be in the same boat as you.

I've heard that restoring all settings to the factory ones can help battery issues. Whilst others say erasing all content and settings, then restoring a back-up can do the trick.

As I say, if I do see anything that might be useful, I will let you know.

[Replies From View]

Shocking? It fucking scares me!
How is it that when you get chatting to an Apple user and they find out you use another product, be it HTC/Android for a phone, Samsung for tablet, PC/Windows for computing they insist you get into some sort of side by side pissing contest then and there so they can point out any faults and convince you that you need to buy the Apple equivalent? I've never met any other group of people so blindly devoted to one company that try so hard to convince you to join them.
I live with an Apple user, she has to reset her Wifi every night when surfing, I don't have that problem with my Android Asus Transformer.

Spoiler alert

Also, iPhone users, the interface looks like 90s throwback shit. How'd you like dem Apples?

[close]

There are some twats who do this (mostly teenagers or people with teenagery consumer ideas), and very likely there's more who do it for Apple than for any other brand.  I don't personally know any Apple "users" who are like this, though.  I think if you hate the brand and its customers you might be seeing what you're expecting to see.

First hand, I saw more of this kind of brand loyalty in the 90s at school, with kids arguing the toss between Nintendo and Sega, or the Amiga and the Atari ST.  The Apple situation doesn't seem vastly removed from that, to me.  What's jarring is that these are adults behaving like teenagers.

[mobias]

I find brand loyalty very odd. There's some companies I like and buy various technological hardware from but there's tangible reasons for me liking those brands and sticking with them. The Sony vs Microsoft fanboyism in gaming gets pretty vicious at times for reasons that utterly escape me. Then again you can put that down to brainless teenagers having a loud voice on the internet.

Where that sort of brand loyalty is at its most extreme as far as I'm concerned, and extreme because it almost always involved adults arguing, is in photography. Why is there that weird tribalism about camera gear? Why does it matter whether I'm a 'Canon Man' or not? Its just absurd.

[Famous Mortimer]

The Commodore 64 vs. Spectrum wars, man. You had to be there. Those scars never go away.

[mobias]

The first iPad reviews are out and predictably they're swooning over the the new screen. 'You have to see it to believe it' etc etc.
http://techcrunch.com/2012/03/14/the-new-ipad-review/

[Famous Mortimer]

New Asus EEE TF201 mega-pad thingie is bloody lovely, in case anyone was wondering.

[hoverdonkey]

The supposed loyalty to apple surely comes from the culture of 'syncing' so that if you have multiple apple devices, they compliment each other and add functionality. They have made it easy to sync devices so if you have an iphone, an imac, apple tv (as I do), once it's set up you don't even need to press a button to sync what you want to each device. It's automatic. Whether it's any easier than other platforms I don't know, but they've been very good in making it appear so, which I suspect is the foundation of apple's success.

[SetToStun]

From what I've seen in the past, Apple loyalty predates the mutiple device era. People were zealots about Macs long before the iPod came about. The (obviously rather extreme) cases you see on the news of people whooping in pure ecstacy when they get their hands on the latest product seem to be a wee bit more excited than automatic synchronisation should get them. All major brands will have adherants of varying degrees of loyalty but it really does seem like Apple devotees approach something like religious fervour at times. Obviously the more sensible loyalists really are in it for their own, perfectly understandable reasons, but there are an awful lot, it appears, who are just foaming evangalists, far more than for any other tech company and - to my eyes - far more than the kit actually deserves. "Want expandable storage? There's an app for... Oh, actually, no there isn't. OK, want to change your battery if it goes flat? There's an app for tha... Oh bugger."

[VegaLA]

Brand loyalty is one thing, questioning why someone uses one product over another, then spending the next 15 minutes trying to convince them why they should use what they use borders on fucking insanity.

The Commodore 64 vs. Spectrum wars, man. You had to be there. Those scars never go away.

It all but divided my HighSchool in two. As a spectrum user there were some corridoors I dare not walk down.

[Replies From View]

Brand loyalty is one thing, questioning why someone uses one product over another, then spending the next 15 minutes trying to convince them why they should use what they use borders on fucking insanity.

I agree but insofar as I've encountered this at all in real life (as opposed to in youtube comments from 15 year olds), it's as much Samsung Galaxy etc users doing this as iPhone owners.  "Better than Apple, mate."  And there's a massive culture here there and everywhere of classifying Apple-device owners in the way you are.  I'd say it's a lot harder to avoid the anti-Apple arguments on forums like this, or out and about, than it is the twats who keep buying new iPads.

I have an iPhone but I'm not doing a little dance of how great it is by taking it out of my pocket to use it.  People do seem to think I am though.  I'm just using my smartphone like you're using yours, unless you're still using your 2002 Nokia.  To me the Android or whatever loyalty is just as aggressive as what you're talking about.  "Go on then wanker; show us how good your phone is!"  "Er... no; fuck off please."

[hoverdonkey]

Completely agree with that. Who gives a shit? Apart from the zealots, on both sides.

[mobias]

Apple have been a cult since the 80's but its only since the iPod that that cult has turned into a full blown technological religion. When people talk about the genius of Steve Jobs and guess they refer to his guidance in bringing about that transformation. However cynically you view it it is undeniably all a very clever move in manipulating the industry and the market round to Apple's ideals.

It'll be very, very interesting to see how their much speculated upon Siri enabled TV takes off later this year when its released. Apple want to do for the TV industry what they've done for the music industry with the iPod (ie Fuck it up entirely some might argue) But I've no idea how they're going to go about that.

[Replies From View]

I think Apple was appealing as long as they seemed the underdog to the big Micro$oft monopoly.  Once that was gone I couldn't fathom the adoration, really, especially once things like the work standards of their Chinese workers started coming to light.

[MojoJojo]

Apple have been a cult since the 80's but its only since the iPod that that cult has turned into a full blown technological religion. When people talk about the genius of Steve Jobs and guess they refer to his guidance in bringing about that transformation. However cynically you view it it is undeniably all a very clever move in manipulating the industry and the market round to Apple's ideals.

Really? In my experience, the intensity of technological fanaticism is generally linked to how unpopular the system is - talk to an Amiga fanboy for example[nb]actually they may have died out completely in the last few years[/nb].
The unusual thing about the Apple cult is they are still going even though Apple is the most valuable company in the world.

To be fair... Apple did do some very signigicant things. Web access had been technically possible from a mobile phone for at least 5 years; as a software engineer I could do it, but I'd only do it if I absolutely had too. For techy people, Apple put a good user interface on stuff. For the less technical, but still interested in technology Apple fanatic, Apple invented 3G and the mobile internet. They didn't make stuff easier, they made it possible.

I can see how that could make people a bit obsessive.

Although I can't completely discount the Apple stores and their influence on it though - gathering little groups of fanatics as employees to breed some truly cult like groupthink and peer pressure.

[I accept the terms of the]

Apple people always go on about "Amiga fanboys", as if there are lots of frothy mad people going on about it to this day, rather than some geeky enthusiasts having the usual format wars of their time. Any Amiga fan who was as spend-happy and loud as a standard Apple fan (of which there are millions) would have been an oddity/celebrity in the Amiga world.

[Replies From View]

as a software engineer I could do it

Futureboy.

[MojoJojo]

You miss my point a bit. I'm not talking Amiga fanboys from the time when they still made Amigas. I'm taling about the fanboys still around in 2010, still singing about how it will rise again.

A quick search on The Register throws up this comment thread http://forums.reghardware.com/forum/1/2010/11/01/amiga_brand_name_for_sale/

Moribund?

Hardly "moribund".

2 new platforms in the next few months.

AmigaOS 4.1 update for "Classic" Amiga owners like the A1200/A4000.

New software being ported and written every day... true, not much compared to Windows but my PC only gets used for recording stuff these days, the AmigaOne gets all the use. Not bad for a moribund platform?

I know we don't have as many users as Linux/Windows/Mac people, but we're far from dead.

I could find more rabid examples, from the earlier noughties at least - but that's someone getting indignant that a brand most people thought was dead in 1995 is moribund in 2010.

Hadn't realised it was something Apple fans brought up a lot[nb]did you imply I was an Apple fanboy? I'm really not. This is written on a Macbook I really regret buying.[/nb], maybe it's something to do with Amiga dying around the same time Apple went to the dogs

But anyway - the point was that tech fanatics[nb]and other fanatics, for that matter[/nb] tend to become more fanatic as they become more unpopular and they are shown to be wrong. The fact you're not aware of the example I chose doesn't really argue against that.

[I accept the terms of the]

I wasn't really replying to your post, sorry. I just saw the words "Amiga fanboy" in another Apple topic! I could see from your post that you're not an Apple fanatic.

That post you've quoted is almost reasonable. Just an enthusiast wanting people to know that something he is passionate about is still active. He's right in saying that the Amiga isn't moribund; as a fringe machine for freako-geeks (which is all it has been since around 1998, really) it's thriving (although why anybody would want to bother with something that is now so far removed from anything that was ever interesting or innovative is beyond me).

It simply doesn't compare to Apple fandom, which is a country-sized legion of people talking like adverts and spending thousands each. Not that I'm accusing you in particular of equating them.

[MojoJojo]

That's cool.
In terms of the Amiga not being moribund... well, the post I quoted wasn't talking about it as something of interest to freako-geeks, they compare it directly to Windows, MacOS and Linux. There are people writing games for the Atari 2600, and even getting cartridges made - they're freako-geeks but they don't believe the Atari 2600 is still alive.It's like claiming Shakespear isn't dead because his plays are still made into films sometimes.

But yeah, the point I was making is that Apple fanboys aren't notably fanatic or numerous, but they notably numerous for how fanatic they are. And vice-versa.

[I accept the terms of the]

the post I quoted wasn't talking about it as something of interest to freako-geeks, they compare it directly to Windows, MacOS and Linux.

Yeah, by saying that is isn't as relevant!

[Replies From View]

The vintage systems thing is surely just people indulging their nostalgia.  There were systems genuinely on the fringes of home computing back in the day and it's understandable that people like to fire them up and use them in their original capacity.  What's daft is the maintained delusion that Apple are still a fringe company in the same way.

[SetToStun]

To be fair... Apple did do some very signigicant things. Web access had been technically possible from a mobile phone for at least 5 years; as a software engineer I could do it, but I'd only do it if I absolutely had too. For techy people, Apple put a good user interface on stuff. For the less technical, but still interested in technology Apple fanatic, Apple invented 3G and the mobile internet. They didn't make stuff easier, they made it possible.

Nokia had mass-market 3G 'phones out years before the iPhone popped up, as did all the other manufacturers. In fact the first iPhone didn't even support 3G (launched in June 2007 - made utterly pointless and redundant in July 2008 when the 3G version launched; you have to love the size of Jobs' cojones to do that to a couple of million people). Apple had shit-all to do with 3G or smartphone browsers. They grabbed the public imagination with the iPod and used the momentum to make the iPhone a must-have for millions of people. Their real genius is design and marketing - they really are the world leaders at those - but in terms of inventing technology they're more adapters than true innovaters. Shit, even HP had tablets at least seven years before the first iPad came out, and despite their logo, HP invent naff-all, so there's no way they were the first. Speech recognition? Dragon cracked that something like ten years ago. Mobile internet over 3G? Done properly years before the iPhone and it wasn't just techies who knew about and used it.

That sounds a bit ranty and it's not supposed to be - I'm no Apple hater by any means - but it does amaze me that people buy into the Apple image so completely.

[Steve Lampkins]

I don't think he meant that they literally invented 3G - but that they 'made it real' for the general public. Basically just popularised it.

[jutl]

I don't think he meant that they literally invented 3G - but that they 'made it real' for the general public. Basically just popularised it.

Yes, in the end it's not the invention that's key, it's the application of the invention. Early tablets were heavy, slow, hot and had shitty battery life. The best mobile browsers before mobile safari - Nokia's webkit-based Symbian browser and Access Netfront - had many usability issues that made them only suitable for geeks with a lot of patience. Many people make a distinction between invention and innovation, with the latter essentially equating to the productisation of the former. By that definition Apple are innovators.

edit to add: and I'm not sure it's fair to criticise a yearly release cycle. Yes the iPhone 3G was a big step up, but it was obvious even in 2007 that that was what the next year's iteration would bring.

[SetToStun]

That's why I said it wasn't meant to be ranty - it's obvious that my tone obscured my intent. There were many browsers before mobile Safari and there was excellent 3G access and high rates of uptake amongst non-techies well before June 2007. Apple made it fashionable, more than anyone else, that's for sure, but I think there's been a certain amount of rewriting of history - and not just by Apple themselves. As far as tablets go, I totally accept what jutl says about the progression Apple made: the iPad was the first "proper" tablet and certainly the first one that could be remotely described as "useful" but if you ask people who invented the tablet, I would be willing to bet well over 50% will reply "Apple", purely because of the pervasiveness of their marketing and the way they launch products as if they were the very first of their kind. Again, don't get me wrong, I admire them for how they manage it but it does grate a bit. I'd dispute Apple innovating anything apart from design and marketing, though. But that's just semantics on my part, really.

[Ignatius_S]

Well the queues outside the Regent Street Store were down, but 63% were PC owners, compared to 44% with the iPad 2 and 25% with the first iPad.

...In fact the first iPhone didn't even support 3G (launched in June 2007 - made utterly pointless and redundant in July 2008 when the 3G version launched; you have to love the size of Jobs' cojones to do that to a couple of million people)...

When the iPhone first launched, EDGE was more ubiquitous than 3G in the United States. This was the key market for Apple. Although some American eyebrows were raised at the decision to not have 3G, I think you'd be hard pressed to demonstrate that the majority of industry and analyst comment in the States thought that it was a strange choice by Apple.

IIRC rightly, at the launch Jobs said about the battery implications about using 3G. Now Jobs said a lot of things, but the original iPhone battery wasn't great and it would have made sense using EDGE as a stop-gap. I'm sure that the decision for the next version to support 3G came as a surprise to some, but it shouldn't have.

Actually, arguably the battery of the first phone was the main reason to upgrade – I'm going from memory, feel free to double-check, but it if recharged the phone everyday (which I don't think is unreasonable to suppose), after a little more than one year, about a fifth of the capacity was lost.

However, I think just about everyone person that I knew who had the first iPhone (not many, only a handful) waited until the 3S until upgrading. The phone didn't "utterly pointless and redundant" to them. However, the one who did upgrade gave it to his partner and she got a couple of years out of it.

Actually, I'm sure some of us will remember that towards the end of the first iPhone, O2 sold them at a substantial discount and people were snapping them up (partly to jailbreak). People kept on using them when the next iPhone came out – some may have upgraded sure, but to say that the first-generation phones were  uddenly "utterly pointless and redundant" is facile.

... Their real genius is design and marketing - they really are the world leaders at those - but in terms of inventing technology they're more adapters than true innovaters..

Sure and don't forget Apple ripped off Xerox PARC – as long as we discount what people who work at both say, Apple paid pre-IPO stock for access to research, patents filed by Apple, that PARC research didn't come from out of nothing etc. etc.

If we look at something at the mouse, Apple wasn't the first company to produce it commercially, but it spent time and resources on its version. For example, it tried one-button, two-button and three-button versions. I know some find the idea attractive that Apple just slaps a logo on and shovels the money that comes in, but the truth is a little more complicated.

. Shit, even HP had tablets at least seven years before the first iPad came out, and despite their logo, HP invent naff-all, so there's no way they were the first...

Who seriously says that it was the first? And who would seriously say that those tablets were equivalent to the first iPad?

....That sounds a bit ranty and it's not supposed to be - I'm no Apple hater by any means - but it does amaze me that people buy into the Apple image so completely.

Personally, I think when discussing technology, it's best not to over generalise.

[Ignatius_S]

...edit to add: and I'm not sure it's fair to criticise a yearly release cycle. Yes the iPhone 3G was a big step up, but it was obvious even in 2007 that that was what the next year's iteration would bring.

Looking at the most recent release cycles for the iPad and iPhone, each year (roughly) brings a decent improvement over the last model but not one that many would call 'essential'. However, skipping one generation to the latest gives more marked differences. With something like a phone, most people don't want to upgrade each year (often because of a contract) but will be looking to two years instead – and the current kind of release cycle works very well with that.

[hoverdonkey]

Looks like I'll be getting one of these. Had been pondering getting a reconditioned ipad 2 - there's so many good apps for pre-schoolers - but work are making it possible to buy an ipad 3 and pay for it over 12 months straight from the pay packet, so we save on the tax. Should end up about £100 cheaper and paid for over 12 months, which is nice.