cartoons n stuff

[yokel]

So I know there's a anime thread round here and that's all well n good(Miyazaki and Akira are excellent, Shin Chan and Fooly Cooly, too), but howsabout we talk about and analyze the shit out of Rocko's Modern Life or  Invader Zim or  Adventure Time or Ren and Stimpy?
Ahem..
I believe the first two seasons of Ren and Stimpy are one of the greatest works of art in the 20th century: it's as grotesque as  De Sade, as darkly hilarious as  say, Titus Andronicus, and gritty as a Burroughs poem about junkies( I personally prefer Ginsberg's work as he always seemed to be the  most sincere of the Beats, but that's another discussion); it presented us with the world as it is in that it was gross, fascinating,full of  jingoistic assholes a who like to piss on others in the name of representing the glory of America (Think Dog show and Man's best friend, George Liquor just bought Ren and stimpy to  show em off), and stupid superheroes  with heads made of toast who are too distracted to actually fix anything( he saved a kitten while maiming some people, for chrissakes) The good people in this world are our heroes who while they may be and idiot who collects snot and  a psychotics who pisses on am electric fence, they at least  mean well in the end. Remember when Stimpy made Ren that happy helmet? Yes, it was a terrifying of thought control, but Stimpy sure as fuck meant well, he actually gave a shit about Ren and toiled in his lab for a cure. Same thing with Ren: yes, he contemplated murdering Stimpy, but his guilt won out. Ren and Stimpy is about two fucked up bastards who in the end, really need each other to survive and y'know what? it works!
Adventure Time is also brilliant, but on another evel: everyone tries their best to respect everyone and it works out; poor actions actually have consequences and the characters take responsibility for them. Finn  and Jake are the anti powdered toast man,they're both responsible AND fun at the same time.

[Big Jack McBastard]

Ren & Stimpy is fucking bananas and no mistake, I semi recently re-watched the whole thing and was stunned anew at how utterly mental it is/was. The space-based episodes in particular were creepy looking and disturbing usually with Ren going off the deep end "Oh my beloved ice-cream bar!" or everything coming to a foul conclusion where the universe is destroyed or they're just left stranded, or surrounded by malevolent looking aliens each with one massive eye baring down on them.

There's noises/cries at the end of some episodes that are hauntingly weird and remain in the background of my brain as signifiers of something 'gone wrong'.

[yokel]

Yea, Space madness is probably my favorite of the episodes; it's just bleak as they come although In the Army may slightly be more terrifying because, well, it's the fuckin army.
But I may be the only person here who liked the revival since it was almost exactly the equivalent of Burroughs' or The Pogues' old Main Drag with my favorites being Stimpy's pregnant and Ren Seeks Help.
And speakin of creepiness, where'd you find your teddy bear picture?
Ever see Invader Zim? It's a bit less bodily fluid heavily(but plenty of bodily torture mind you) than Ren and Stimpy, but very Cronenberg-esque who apparently is one of the creator's big influences.

[madhair60]

Invader Zim is a bit too "daaaaark" for my taste, Adventure Time does nothing for me but I really like Regular Show, which is similar.

Also, can we talk about the best cartoon openings?  I've already won.

[yokel]

In what sense is Zim too 'Daark'?

[Catalogue Trousers]

Well, here's a page largely constructed by the show's fans:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WesternAnimation/InvaderZim?from=Main.InvaderZim

Note frequent mentions of Zim being "Dark" and using "Dark Humour". Check out the sub-sections and see how many times "daaark" stuff comes up.

[Big Jack McBastard]

There's a vastly inordinate amount of internet-based gushing directed at Invader Zim which I've never understood, it wasn't particularly notable or funny (I don't remember laughing hard at any of it to be honest), it was just a bit weird looking.

The kids of 2001 were too easy to please I reckon.

[madhair60]

In what sense is Zim too 'Daark'?

I get this sort of tedious feeling that it's supposed to be like WHOA KIDS THIS IS WHAT REAL LIFE IS LIKE FUCKING GET ME FOR PUTTING IT ON THE NICKELODEON, with the relentless bleakness of the school setting and constant sarcasm, and unreliable adults etc.  I still quite like it, and can't believe Jhonen Vasquez ever got a fucking kids' show commissioned after his comics.

This episode was very funny to me.

Edit: watching it back i'm quite nonplussed by it.

[alan nagsworth]

Am I the only one who thought the third and fourth seasons of Ren & Stimpy were the best? Peak fucking madness. Ren's Brain, Insomniac Ren, I Was A Teenage Stimpy and I Love Chicken are some of the most memorable animated episodes I have ever seen.

The Tick is a big favourite of mine, love the perfect crossover between adult and child humour, with my favourite example being the vast array of worthless bum superheroes all attempting a shot at the big time in The City. There's one episode with one such throwaway character called Bipolar Bear: 'This looks like a job for BIPOLAR BEAR! ... but I really can't face getting out of bed today.'

Also, can we talk about the best cartoon openings?  I've already won.

Blast from the fucking past! Incredible, thank you!

[madhair60]

The third and fourth runs of R&S get a lot of hate from John K fans, though I think they have their merits.  Terminal Stimpy is in that lot, and I love that episode.  Thing is, the animation is noticeably less inspired, and they never reach the heights of Stimpy's Invention, Sven Hoek (which is one of my favourite cartoons ever) or A Visit To Anthony, which looks INSANE.

[alan nagsworth]

I think I need to revisit them at some point, it's been a long time since I last saw them. I love the show dearly but I really have to be in the mood.

At least it's not Adult Party Cartoon though eh! Fuuuck me.

[madhair60]

"Ren Seeks Help" was fun.

[Big Jack McBastard]

And speakin of creepiness, where'd you find your teddy bear picture?

He came from this thread, those are eyes of Jigsaws little mad doll from the Saw movies.

[yokel]

Eh, I think the rest of Ren and Stimpy's seasons sometimes just seemed gross for grossness' sake, plus the art was rather dull.
And I realize that Invader Zim  question was rather stupid, sorry.
I liked Zim because there was a nice relationship between Zim and Dib: they hated each other  yet needed each other to survive, almost the same yet opposite of Ren and Stimpy. Gir's been wayyy overexposed here in the states here though, Jhonen hated him.
Sven Hoek's fuckin amazing too, especially Ren's rage, good christ.

[madhair60]

"YOOOOOOOOUUUUU!  BOTH OF YOOOOOOU!  Oh, what I'm gonna do to you."

Zim is not bad per se, I used to really like it, and remember being infuriated when they aired it on ITV cut to ribbons.  Thing is, I used to really like Jhonen's comics, but going back to some of them (JTHM/Squee, mainly), I find them a bit annoying, especially the really lame unearned meta stuff about how horrible his fans are.  I Feel Sick remains wonderful, and I have a soft spot for the Fillerbunny series, especially the inordinately detailed third one.

[thenoise]

... best cartoon openings?

The Dreamstone!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcufngYRELY

[Mister Six]

Is this just for (pseudo) kids' cartoons, then? No Archer or Venture Bros or Sea Lab? Fair enough.

Only discovered Adventure Time last week, though I vaguely recall hearing something about it when it debuted a couple of years back. From what little I've seen it is great - witty dialogue, some fun subversions of kids' cartoon tropes, and genuinely laugh-out-loud moments. The episode that starts with Finn and Jake locking up the Ice King without due process - then deciding that doing so makes them the bad guys and locking themselves up in his stead - was great.

Also I have the kind of crush on Marceline that you only get when you're a kid working out those funny 'feelings'. So yeah, it properly taps into my childhood brain. Woo!

[madhair60]

I wasn't keen on Adventure Time and its "hello adults watching this we are constantly alluding to fucking for your benefit" and the fact that it seemed to be aimed at college-age hipsters instead of children.

I do however enjoy Regular Show, which is exactly the same.

[Jemble Fred]

You dislike Adventure Time because it wasn't aimed at children? That makes no sense.

It's one of the few recent cartoons which I really liked, I have to admit, even though it was hard to put my finger on why. It was the audio/visual equivalent of fizzy sweets.

[madhair60]

Yeah, my dislike of it does make no sense.  I think it's because it's ostensibly a kid's show on a kid's network, but it's full of crude humour and references to fucking, which come over a bit HEH HEH THIS'LL SHOW 'EM.  Also it seems a bit too Well Random for me.

Again, Regular Show is the same, but for some reason annoys me less.  I just don't like it when kid's shows are full of inappropriate humour, I hate to feel like I'm a periphary demographic.

[Jemble Fred]

Oh right, well I've never seen the show in context, just whatever episodes are watchable online. Never occurred to me that it was even vaguely aimed at kids, I thought it was a spoof of kid's cartoons.

[Ignatius_S]

I wasn't keen on Adventure Time and its "hello adults watching this we are constantly alluding to fucking for your benefit" and the fact that it seemed to be aimed at college-age hipsters instead of children....

Although it's going for crossover, it's heavily aimed at kids – the last time I was in the States, it was mainly scheduled in the afternoon on Cartoon Network. Although there was some later scheduling, this mainly was on Saturdays IIRC and that's not unusual. Also, there was heavy advertising for it during the day. From various online reviews I've read, a lot of kids seem to really, really, really love It and I've seen more than a few children with t-shirts.

Personally, I don't find the humour that crude – there's material in The Simpsons these days which I would say is far so. Wouldn't say it's a million miles from the stuff in Chowder or The Marvelous Misadventures of Flapjack.

[Mister Six]

I haven't seen masses of Adventure Time, but I haven't noticed much in the way of innuendo - aside from a reference to the vampire queen being 'sexy'. It's fucking nothing compared to Cow & Chicken.

[yokel]

Is this just for (pseudo) kids' cartoons, then? No Archer or Venture Bros or Sea Lab? Fair enough.

Only discovered Adventure Time last week, though I vaguely recall hearing something about it when it debuted a couple of years back. From what little I've seen it is great - witty dialogue, some fun subversions of kids' cartoon tropes, and genuinely laugh-out-loud moments. The episode that starts with Finn and Jake locking up the Ice King without due process - then deciding that doing so makes them the bad guys and locking themselves up in his stead - was great.

Also I have the kind of crush on Marceline that you only get when you're a kid working out those funny 'feelings'. So yeah, it properly taps into my childhood brain. Woo!

Eh, go ahead and talk about Archer,etc. or what not. Adventure time chat's gonna get run dry eventually. I just mentioned adventure time, ren and stimpy,etc. cos they all got a unique look to em whereas Archer and Sealab kinda look too samey to me.