War - it's fantastic!

[NoSleep]

Rhapsody In August manages to prove Truffaut's declaration (on the impossibility of making an anti-war film) false by leaving all the war to recollections and expressing the horror of war via a visit to a children's playground.
I guess we need a few other Kurosawa films in this thread (some more in-your-face stuff) like Ran or Kagemusha, although I recall war is more of a backdrop to the stories told in these films.

[Santa's Boyfriend]

Right:  Army recruitment videos.  Do you think the army really sees itself this way?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlzdZqSVbJ4

I don't know about you but this video makes me want to fuck everyone and everything in it.

[chris87]

Right:  Army recruitment videos.  Do you think the army really sees itself this way?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlzdZqSVbJ4

I don't know about you but this video makes me want to fuck everyone and everything in it.

'The strength to obey'? Sounds like starship troopers.

[Cohaagen]

You have a serious problem.

I was about 70% joking when I wrote that, but indulging the notion for a moment I would bet that an SS-themed first-person shooter and associated expansion packs would sell millions. A substantial proportion of WWII nuts have rather dodgy sympathies anyway, and the average 14yr old CoD player today is so desensitised, jaded and morally enfeebled even the worst barbarism would slide down easy as a glass of Sunny D.

SUPER DIRLEWANGER FIGHTER

Activision in association with the award-winning 14 Words Studios brings you the most intense WWII atrocity experience yet!

TAKE COMMAND of your punishment battalion of racially-pure supermen and defend the Reich by bringing the fight to the Slav untermenschen!

FIGHT your way through 12 stunningly detailed and ultra-realistic locations including Babi Yar, Lviv, Jelgava, and the Oradour-sur-Glane bonus level!

PUNISH the Judeo-Bolshevik hordes with Zyklon B, carbon monoxide, and over a dozen accurately modelled infantry weapons from the deadly MG42 to dual Luger pistols and the trusty entrenching tool.

"...the best war crimes simulator on the PS3: 88%!"
-Der Sturmer

A killstreak of 200 unarmed civilians lets you call in a Stuka.

Those TV shows are just unashamed sales brochures aren't they. Unbelievable how brazen they are.

They are utterly obnoxious but a real guilty indulgence for me. They even did a special in Israel without ever managing to touch on why the Israelis became one of the world's top weapons developers and exporters. War reduced purely to its technological component parts, leaving out the inconvenient aspects - the dead and permanently maimed.

Right:  Army recruitment videos.  Do you think the army really sees itself this way?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlzdZqSVbJ4

I don't know about you but this video makes me want to fuck everyone and everything in it.

Despite all the appeals to notions of "duty" and patriotism, the US military and the army especially is still a de facto conscript force which greatly relies on the self-interest of disadvantaged recruits seeking medical and education benefits. They've even introduced a 2-year short enlistment in return for which they pay about $20,000 of tuition fees. Combine that with low fitness standards and waivers for drop-outs and criminals and you get large numbers of physically and mentally "sub-optimal" troops such as the semi-retarded Lynndie England with her <90 IQ.

I remember this was a really clever ad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG1lUd5-sz4

I always think of it every time I see a soldier trying to communicate with some Afghan from behind a pair of shades.

[Blumf]

They are utterly obnoxious but a real guilty indulgence for me. They even did a special in Israel without ever managing to touch on why the Israelis became one of the world's top weapons developers and exporters. War reduced purely to its technological component parts, leaving out the inconvenient aspects - the dead and permanently maimed.

Hell, I watch them too. Can't help but admire the engineering (even when it's obviously pointless) and, of course, big booms.

I remember this was a really clever ad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG1lUd5-sz4
I always think of it every time I see a soldier trying to communicate with some Afghan from behind a pair of shades.

[Cohaagen]

Hell, I watch them too. Can't help but admire the engineering (even when it's obviously pointless)

Heh, Metal Storm. The first time I ever saw that was on Tomorrow's World in the early 90s and it still hasn't been taken up by anyone in the subsequent 20 years. A great example of a novel idea desperately looking for a purpose. There was a plan to fit a grenade-launching version as a hard-kill active protection system on tanks, but that came to nothing as well.

and, of course, big booms.

I used to have a poster from that shoot on my wall as a nipper, but to be honest, I find the Iowas are a bit boring. They spent their entire life as floating artillery platforms. Plus the story of how they almost blew up Iowa herself fucking about with unauthorised experiments and then shamelessly concocted a gay-crewman-with-a-death-wish story as a cover-up was not exactly the US Navy's finest hour. At least HMS Hood actually sank something. Actually Hood was without doubt the most aesthetically perfect warship of all time, with a beautiful, almost art deco-like superstructure.



There's a great model (I say model, it's over 13 feet long) of her in the Glasgow Transport Museum. It's almost 100 years old.

French warships of the time weren't particularly good, but they had a decidedly Jules Verne look about them. Very distinctive.



Anyway, back on topic, here's an interesting talk with the late Troy Kennedy Martin. He discusses stuff like Edge of Darkness and Z-Cars, but there's a bit where he speaks about writing Kelly's Heroes, his original vision of it (much grittier and more realistic than the released film), how the studio mucked about with things, and how parts of it were informed by his own experience of combat (as a National Serviceman in Cyprus):

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:CFOD9kj4xroJ:media2.bournemouth.ac.uk/documents/pdfs/scriptwriting/npf9tkmartin.pdf+&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjHk-LDbK1UnRN8ggTdIvCKFpz3vGreBN2zWfbHD8Teh1Mera-JQcN3sa71SsSz2YGGmbM5PNMYeadqUjqEC--u50TX3TFt1J56WcTjnu2UKwfcmhQyvPIwB9wnDLrY4GGBqPIn&sig=AHIEtbTAODYbrJJP_cDAips3XjVPxE7RNA

[Santa's Boyfriend]

They certainly don't make 'em like they used to.  Here's an ironclad from the American Civil War:



It's from this list of photos at appeared on the B3ta newsletter last week.  A stunning selection of images: http://m.theatlantic.com/infocus/2012/02/the-civil-war-part-1-the-places/100241/

[Gulftastic]

Thanks for that link, SB. Some amazing stuff on there.

[NoSleep]

They certainly don't make 'em like they used to.  Here's an ironclad from the American Civil War:



It's from this list of photos at appeared on the B3ta newsletter last week.  A stunning selection of images: http://m.theatlantic.com/infocus/2012/02/the-civil-war-part-1-the-places/100241/

That's in danger of being sunk by a 6" wave. Or too many people onboard crowding to one side. Does it have flotation tanks?

[Blumf]

Unsurprisingly, it wasn't built for the job, the hull was originally a steam ferry, then they piled on a load of iron armour:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Essex_%281856%29

Happened quiet a lot in the US civil war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Merrimack_%281855%29

[danyulx]

I was just coming on here to big up and talk about bollocks about Come and See - assuming most people wouldn't have seen it, and they should. But considering it was the first film mentioned on here by the first poster, I don't think I'll bother now. Incredible film, I'll say that.



That and Apocalypse Now are the only two war films I've seen that cracked the nail on the head for me. Most war films don't do a lot for me, even Kubrick's 'Paths of Glory' and 'Full Metal Jacket' I'm not that huge a fan of, nor Malick's 'The Thin Red Line' even. Two directors I usually love.

A war film that's worth its salt should be completely delirious and demented.

Though more a post-war films than a war film, and I only saw it once - years ago - I remember really liking Roberto Rossellini's Germany, Yero Zero. It was both filmed in and set in Germany in 1948, amidst all the rubble and destruction. Devastating ending.

[Santa's Boyfriend]

If we're talking about post war movies now, Judgement at Neurenberg is a fabulously well written courtroom drama about one of the Neurenberg trials, which features some truly electrifying courtroom speeches.

There's also an HBO movie/miniseries thing about the trial of the high-ranking Nazis such as Goering, which is pretty good as far as I remember, but I don't remember what it was called.  Quite possibly just Neurenberg.

[Gulftastic]

On a sort of similar vein to the two mentioned above, I'd like to add Conspiracy to the list.

A recreation of the Wannsee Conference, whehe the Final Solution was planned. It's basically a load of thesps sitting round a table and acting their socks off. Colin Firth and Ken Branagh are particularly good, but nobody gives a bad performance.

[Zetetic]

Accidental post. But since I've made it, I'll second Conspiracy.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Aye - Stanley Tucci's also great in it as Adolf Eichmann.

[Santa's Boyfriend]

I'll third it, it's a very very powerful film.  I'm not sure if it's still available, and with such a simple title it's hard to find online, but it's well worth hunting down.  I understand there's a German language version too, but I've not seen it.

[El Unicornio, mang]

I was just coming on here to big up and talk about bollocks about Come and See - assuming most people wouldn't have seen it, and they should. But considering it was the first film mentioned on here by the first poster, I don't think I'll bother now. Incredible film, I'll say that.

I'm going to watch this tonight. Should I prepare myself to be horribly disturbed?

[CaledonianGonzo]

It's by no means a chucklefest, no.

[Gulftastic]

I'll third it, it's a very very powerful film.  I'm not sure if it's still available, and with such a simple title it's hard to find online, but it's well worth hunting down.  I understand there's a German language version too, but I've not seen it.

Some kind soul has put the whole thing on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncixWejOc_8&feature=related

[El Unicornio, mang]

Just finished Come and See. Thought it was incredible, definitely would have to put it in my top 5 war films. And as far as showing the stark realities, definitely number one. I watched a documentary about the real life story it's based on, so that scene didn't have quite the impact it would have if I didn't know what was coming, but it was still horrible to watch. Some quite odd shots too, the girl dancing on top of the radio, the loris on the SS guy's soldier, the sexy nazi lady sucking on a crab claw, and many others.

[Cohaagen]

That's in danger of being sunk by a 6" wave. Or too many people onboard crowding to one side. Does it have flotation tanks?

US monitors of the Civil War and afterward were basically riverine craft and even inshore operations were risky due to their poor stability and more or less non-existent freeboard, but the US Navy kept building them for years and years after they became functionally obsolete. A few months after the Battle of Hampton Roads the Monitor herself sank in conditions that would have posed no problem for seagoing craft. They actually raised her turret a few years ago (along with a few skeletons still in situ):



Oh, I forgot to include The Duellists on my original list. It's not really a war movie as such, but I include it purely by dint of the superb attention to detail and faultless production design which went into recreating the uniforms and fashions (even down to changing hairstyles) of the Grande Armée.

Thanks for the response so far, folks. I didn't think we'd get more than a handful of replies at most and I've been surprised. God bless you all!

[The Plunger]

No mention of this yet ? For shame :

[El Unicornio, mang]

So I'm trying to remember a film, it's not Schindler's List but it covers the same subject and is in black and white. The only scene I can really remember is one where Nazi guards throw a bun into a load of mud and the Jewish prisoners all scramble to get it.

[ziggy starbucks]

On a sort of similar vein to the two mentioned above, I'd like to add Conspiracy to the list.

A recreation of the Wannsee Conference, whehe the Final Solution was planned. It's basically a load of thesps sitting round a table and acting their socks off. Colin Firth and Ken Branagh are particularly good, but nobody gives a bad performance.

because of your post I watched this again last night. It was really excellent, Branagh as Reinhard Heydrich was particularly good as a man who terrorises a room full of terrorists. It all perfectly captured the cold, twisted logic and mundane administrative work that underpinned the murder of millions

[Santa's Boyfriend]

It does give you the disturbing impression that Branagh would have done quite well in the Third Reich.  I'm sure that's just him being a good actor though.

[Buelligan]

Just finished watching Generation Kill for the first time and was left feeling meh!  I had huge expectations (I suppose), loved The Wire, don't know what I really wanted from GK but felt I didn't get it.  It felt incoherent, almost lazy.  Anyway, maybe I'll give it another go in a year or so, but for now, it goes in the I've just wasted hours of my life file.

[Santa's Boyfriend]

I thought the point of GK was that the modern experience of war is its incoherence, but also the fact that those on the ground aren't that concerned with the politics of what they're doing, they're simply there because they're there.  It's probably closer to Das Boot than anything else.

[Buelligan]

Yep, you could have something there, maybe I needed to think about it differently.  I'll give it another go one day.