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New talent in horror.

Started by astrozombie, May 04, 2012, 11:51:11 AM

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holyzombiejesus

I thought it was brilliant. It had a horrible claustrophobic atmosphere all the way through, the night scenes drew you into the screen despite not wanting to see what was going to unfold, the way that a shot of a woman just standing still next to a sleeping man felt so horrible. I still don't like to think about it before I go to sleep and I've not felt like that since TBWP.

astrozombie

Quote from: Jemble Fred on May 10, 2012, 11:29:38 AM
Because it's almost entirely boring, except for the 'scary' bits, which are hilariously daft. It's like someone half-watched Ghostwatch, and then missed the point entirely when they ripped it off.

PA 2 is probably the most boring film I have ever seen in my entire life. It felt like it was 5 hours long with the 'scary bits' coming in in the final 5 minutes. The build up was just shitly scripted character development with two actors who could be out-performed by a sponge.

However PA 1 and 3 are both quite good for what they are. They're nowhere near as good as The Blair Witch Project but are still good ghost films, I watched PA 1 in the cinema and I found it to be quite tense, didn't scare me too much, but it was fun watching all the horror novices shitting themselves.

I also enjoyed "Apollo 18", I went into that film with my girlfriend, she wanted to see it, I didn't, there was nothing else there to watch, I went in with my arms crossed, pouting like a little bitch, "This is going to be shiiiiiit!" then I have to admit I got completely engrossed in it and enjoyed it very much. After it ended all I good hear were murmurs from everyone in the cinema "That was the worst film I've ever seen" and my girlfriend telling me "That was terrible".

Jemble Fred

The Blair Witch project being another film which completely fucked up the 'build up of tension'/pay-off ratio – which Ghostwatch of course got spot-on. How either movie can actually scare someone mystifies me, it's like being turned on by Last of the Summer Wine or something.

The funniest thing about Paranormal Activity is that the basis of the haunting is a demon. A fucking demon. With three toes. Who pulls people out of bed. Seriously. Boo indeed.

It is interesting though, how disappointment in a horror film can generate such anger, moreso than even bad comedy. If something fails to make you laugh, you hate it and want to critique it, but when you want to be scared, and are disappointed, there's something truly aggravating about that. Like somebody picking a fight with you, calling you names and then running away.

astrozombie

Quote from: Jemble Fred on May 10, 2012, 12:08:16 PM
The Blair Witch project being another film which completely fucked up the 'build up of tension'/pay-off ratio – which Ghostwatch of course got spot-on. How either movie can actually scare someone mystifies me, it's like being turned on by Last of the Summer Wine or something.

When the Blair Witch first came out it had a very clever and original marketing technique. It more or less convinced everyone it was real, everywhere on TV there were faux documentaries (made as part of the promotion) claiming it was all real etc. Being a young teenager when it came out I too fell for it and I SHIT myself when I first saw it.

Maybe it doesn't have a conventional build up of tension like many horror films but let us not forget this isn't a conventional horror film. It's supposed to be some camera footage someone has found in the woods and pieced together to show the last days of three young film students, real life episodes don't have a build up of tension, things just happens out of nowhere. I rewatched the film a few months ago and despite knowing now how it was all made etc. I still find the final scene in that log cabin to be very unnerving.

El Unicornio, mang

I found Blair Witch pretty scary, although I only saw it back when it came out. I guess it depends what kind of horror gets to you. I don't believe in most supernatural stuff, but for some reason that's the stuff that gets to me in movies.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Blair With is one of those things that always seem better in my mind that it does when I actually watch it. I too felt pissed off after seeing it for the first time, amidst all the hype. My attitude towards it has softened over the years, but whenever I watch it, it still just doesn't quite work for me.

holyzombiejesus

Quote from: astrozombie on May 10, 2012, 12:16:20 PM
When the Blair Witch first came out it had a very clever and original marketing technique. It more or less convinced everyone it was real, everywhere on TV there were faux documentaries (made as part of the promotion) claiming it was all real etc.

It didn't though, did it? It more or less convinced everyone that it had a very clever and original marketing technique but as far as I know, people - certainly in the UK - knew it was marketing rather than a true story.

Jemble Fred

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on May 10, 2012, 04:15:25 PM
My attitude towards it has softened over the years, but whenever I watch it, it still just doesn't quite work for me.

Same here – and I was lucky enough to see a really dodgy DVD of the film when the hype had barely even begun, the original website had only recently been launched, and the presentation of the movie was superb. It's just the actual movie itself which fails to deliver, despite plenty of great moments along the way.

For me, there's a clear scale of horror dilution when it comes to getting successful scares from found/fake footage: Ghostwatch > Blair Witch > Paranormal Activity. You could probably even stick Welles' War of the Worlds before them all.

Blair Witch ultimately failed to deliver the real pay-off scares for me, and then Paranormal Activity took that annoyance and multiplied it by taking the longueurs to piss-taking extremities, and then having the mythology powering the concept be utterly dickheaded. At least Blair Witch's Elly Kedward business was well thought out.

Noodle Lizard

I think the Blair Witch Project is good regardless of the marketing/"true story" hype.  And I like the mythology behind it, which you can then apply to various occurrences later on, without it ever being spelled out like it would be in traditional horror films.

Paranormal Activity just felt like a producer saying to himself "well, the Blair Witch Project made a fuckload from a tiny budget, I'll do the same thing from my mansion".  It probably felt like that because that's what it was.

The main problem is it was incredibly repetitive and it didn't feel at all realistic.  And I don't find slamming doors scary.

Ghostwatch is great and I wish there was more of that kind of stuff on TV nowadays, but I don't think it's really comparable to The Blair Witch Project, despite being a probable influence.

Famous Mortimer

I think Blair Witch is really, really good. I thought it was clever and interesting and used its budget as a plus rather than a minus.

Then again, I've not watched it in a very long time. But the times I watched it I thoroughly enjoyed.

Mini

Blair Witch works because it feels real - even now we know it's not - because the actors are genuinely terrified. They were told all this stuff about the witch, sent off into the woods with a video camera, and then left to go insane while the filmmakers fucked with them. Apparently they had a panic button to press for when they got too scared, but the filmmakers ignored it when they pressed it. The result is watching people who are actually breaking down from fear, which makes for a good horror film.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth


Dark Sky

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on May 10, 2012, 04:27:38 AM
Se7en, really, isn't it?

Yeah, it has elements of Se7en, but it has an original tone, style and look to it.

QuoteI don't know about this.  It's the same thing people said about The Blair Witch Project (which I think is a great film), but I don't see much evidence of it.

Blair Witch went tits up when the hastily churned out sequel embarrassed everybody.  Saw did a very interesting thing by buying up a separate original script by Darren Lynn Bousman and rewriting it as a sequel...  Saw 2 is the best film of the franchise, I think.

QuoteI'd actually argue that more of that was going on in the 70s and 80s.

Maybe it was!  And (supposedly) it's going to start happening again, which is nice.

QuoteWhat I do see is studio bods saying "Wow, these guys made a huge profit off a tiny budget, we could do the same thing!"  Hence you get films like Paranormal Activity, Hostel or any number of piss-weak BWP or SAW derivatives.

Hostel isn't anything like Saw, though, is it?  Saw was genuinely nasty; Hostel was a black comedy, probably because of the influence of Tarantino and Evil Dead 2's Scott Spiegel on the script (the 'hand brake' joke is a favourite of mine).  Paranormal Activity was made by an amateur guy in his house...the idea that you're claiming it's some kind of cynical studio exercise couldn't be further from the truth!  Orin Peli had never made a film before, and basically made it as a hobby.  It got screened at a couple of festivals and got snapped up quickly, then was sat on by the studio who thought they might remake it with higher production values before an Internet petition got them to release it.  Whereupon it was huge.

QuoteI don't like the franchises.  I thought the original Saw film was pretty good for what was essentially a student film gone mega.  And I never liked Paranormal Activity.  In fact, I actively dislike it.

I was responding to astrozombie :)

Quote from: Jemble Fred on May 10, 2012, 11:29:38 AM
Because it's almost entirely boring, except for the 'scary' bits, which are hilariously daft. It's like someone half-watched Ghostwatch, and then missed the point entirely when they ripped it off.

The 'scary' bits of Ghostwatch are hilariously daft really, though, aren't I?  Yet at the same time absolutely chilling!  I think PA is bloody good, really; I love things like the hoof prints in the powder (not footsteps, even - HOOF PRINTS!), and where she gets dragged out of bed, which is a nice attack on the "you're safe under your covers" mindset! (Also subverted by the Ju-On films)  Not one to watch in a cinema, though; you need to see it on DVD in your living room in an empty house.  Wonderful.


Quote from: Jemble Fred on May 10, 2012, 12:08:16 PMThe funniest thing about Paranormal Activity is that the basis of the haunting is a demon. A fucking demon. With three toes. Who pulls people out of bed. Seriously. Boo indeed.

AHAHAHA!  Honestly hadn't read this post when I wrote the above!  That's brilliant.

Quote from: Jemble Fred on May 10, 2012, 12:08:16 PM
The Blair Witch project being another film which completely fucked up the 'build up of tension'/pay-off ratio – which Ghostwatch of course got spot-on. How either movie can actually scare someone mystifies me, it's like being turned on by Last of the Summer Wine or something.

Oh, if you don't find Blair Witch scary then sure, you wouldn't like PA.  Horror, like humour, is incredibly subjective, and what terrifies some people bores others.  Ghostwatch is seminal, but so is Blair Witch, and I am a bit surprised you like one and not the other.

Then again, I do get an erection whenever I see Peter Sallis.

Junglist

Noroi is a much better found footage effort (imo, anyway):

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0930083/

Noodle Lizard

I wasn't much of a fan of Noroi.  It had its moments, but didn't do much for me overall.  Worth watching for a pretty good ending though.

danyulx

#75
Quote from: astrozombie on May 10, 2012, 04:05:33 AM
Victor Salva, another member one of Hollywood's small bean regarders. I enjoyed "Jeeper's Creepers" the only other film I have seen by him is "Powder"...

I haven't seen 'Powder'.. that film sounds like someone getting away with murder though, I know that much, and I want to see it for that reason.

The most incredible thing has haver happened in the history of the motion picture industry, probably: A film director gets arrested and banged up for sexually abusing and filming the sexual abuse of the pre-pubescent lead actor of his debut feature film (who incidentally was, three years previous, then aged around eight, the lead actor in his debut short film too, makes you wonder doesn't it?, groomin' and that). Gets released from the nick after serving half his sentence.. and is employed by fucking Disney! to make his follow-up film! "about a boy, nicknamed Powder, with incredible intellect, telepathy, and paranormal powers." And since goes on afterwards to forge a lucrative and what seems fairly stress-free, family-friendly mainstream horror filmmaking career.

I'm not saying he should be banned from filmmaking or anything. He served his time, fair enough. But it was an incredible turn of events. Considering what happened to Chris Langham, for example, for just having a quick nose about online.

.....

I really liked 'The Blair Witch Project' too. To echo what other people have already said, what singled out that film for me from the sleuth of knock-offs that followed is that it was really well acted. I could easily imagine getting hooked into believing it was real, if I knew nothing about it before seeing it. The acting in the first 'Paranormal Activity', on the other hand, was atrocious, which instantly distanced me from shitting myself during the viewing experience.

That 'Troll Hunter' sounds good. I want to see that.

Junglist

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on May 10, 2012, 08:56:05 PM
I wasn't much of a fan of Noroi.  It had its moments, but didn't do much for me overall.  Worth watching for a pretty good ending though.

Aye, it isn't as terrifying as many make out, it suffers the same fate as most Asian horror in that it really isn't all that. Plus I've overdosed on found footage films over the years, but it's one of the better efforts.

Home Movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1267319/

And

Absentia:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1610996/

Are also worth a look, entertained me more than they should have.

astrozombie

"Baghead" from the indie darling Duplas brothers works very well as a horror film. I know it's one of those mumblecore dramadies at heart, however when I saw it, I found myself completely on the tintering edge of my seat, completely riled with tension. I think it worked so well as a horror film because there was no hint what-so-ever to it being one.

------

On found footage flicks:

What about the bootlegged found footage sickie from the director of the Oscar winning "Bum Fights", "Terrorists, Killers and Middle Eastern Wacko's" found footage at it's most horrifying. I was at a friends house a few years back and he told me he had this DVD, under the influence of alcohol (and other things) he put presented it to me and some other friends only to have us all shielding our eyes and then all spent the new week or so unable to rinse the images from our mind.

astrozombie

QuoteI haven't seen 'Powder'.. that film sounds like someone getting away with murder though, I know that much, and I want to see it for that reason.

I warn you of it's tedium. It is probably the dullest film I have ever seen in my life and I would never even flirt with the idea in my mind of giving it a re-watch. It's the kind of boring that leaves you depressed for an hour afterwards.

Apparently while they were making it, during the shooting of a fair ground scene (which went over a few days) the cast and crew all brought their kids along to play extras (under Salva's orders) and then on the news it all came out "DISNEY HIRES CHILD SEX PREDATOR TO DIRECT MOVIE" and of course everyone became weary of bringing their tot's along and stopped doing so. Apparently Salva then got the producer to force them to do this and promised he would not speak or look them in the eye what-so-ever.

Kind of irks me to be honest. I mean Salva, director of incredibly hum-drum films, got to have what was to him the time of his life raping an eight your old boy in the face and still get's to continue a healthy career. Mel Gibson makes fun of a Jewish cop and some racial slurs is completely banished from Tinsel town, "Apocolypto" is better than Salva's entire body of work ten-fold.

Custard

Love, love, LOVE Blair Witch Project. Seen it about ten times over the years, and put it on at work recently to show a workmate, and it still absolutely chills me to the marrow

It's deffo a film that either really effects you or, well, just doesn't, though. I know people who love it, and others who detest it. There very rarely seems to be a middle-ground

The number one complaint I hear/read about the film, is that you don't really see anything, and certainly not a 'witch'

But to me, that's the terrifying thing. The unseen is always far, far scarier and chilling than anything any filmmaker could come up with. Some people called it a cop-out, but to me, it really works. I feel seeing some hairy witch thing running at the camera would completely dilute the previous 80 minutes. So i'm glad the 'witch' itself was never shown

Other handheld 'found footage' films I really enjoyed are both [REC] films, and Cloverfield is great fun. Though I'm sure I'm forgetting more

Troll Hunter is great fun, but don't expect another Blair Witch. It's a lot dafter, and the actual trolls are quite comic looking, which tends to water down any fear somewhat. Anyone know if the US remake is still going ahead? And has anyone found a reason why yet?

Noodle Lizard

It may be because I do like the film, but I haven't really read any valid criticisms of The Blair Witch Project except for "I just don't like it", which is fair enough.  Other than that, all the criticisms are things like "It's not actually real!", "You don't see anything", "Nothing gets explained" or "Heather is an annoying cunt, I wish she got raped in the woods and disemboweled with wooden cooking spoons", none of which are really too justifiable given the nature of the film.

Dark Sky

What's nice is that because you don't see the witch, it tickles the fancy of those who want to believe it's a paranormal film, whilst not alienating those who would be put off by that kind of thing, and prefer to think it's...I dunno, someone imitating the Rustin Parr murders, or that kind of thing.

I noticed that with Halloween the last time I watched it, too.  I must have seen that film twenty, thirty times, but it was only when I was watching it with someone who hates paranormal stuff that I realised Halloween works brilliantly as just a "insane killer in a mask" thriller, rather than the quasi-supernatural boogieman personification I tend to usually watch it as (and which the sequels expanded on).

Back to Blair Witch, one of the best things about it is a mythology, and I think it was a very sensible decision by them to not feature any talking-head footage in the final film, and to save all that for the Sci Fi Channel's "The Curse of the Blair Witch" mockumentary.  Now that's how to make a fantastic companion piece.

Famous Mortimer

I just watched Ti West's first film, "Trigger Man", and it's pretty interesting, if unbelievably slow. Reports of his newer films don't exactly fill me with confidence he's rectified this problem, either. It's only 1:20 long, and the first half hour is filled with nothing much - people talking, wandering round a forest for a bit, and so on. There's a cool review which says "if you're after character development, look elsewhere, but the tension is really effectively built up" and I agree with this.

astrozombie

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on May 12, 2012, 08:18:49 AM
I just watched Ti West's first film, "Trigger Man", and it's pretty interesting, if unbelievably slow. Reports of his newer films don't exactly fill me with confidence he's rectified this problem, either. It's only 1:20 long, and the first half hour is filled with nothing much - people talking, wandering round a forest for a bit, and so on. There's a cool review which says "if you're after character development, look elsewhere, but the tension is really effectively built up" and I agree with this.

I quite like it when a horror film is a slow-burner. So long as it is well put together, if done correctly it is good at making you feel unease, knowing that something nasty is coming around the corner. If done correctly when the spooky bits come on it will make you wish it was 20 minutes prior when the characters were all just having a wander around.

I liked HOTD so much for that. There is no dialogue what-so-ever for a good 40 minutes during the build up and is just one girl in a house on her own, but it kept me thinking "where is this going?" I had no idea and then had a very enjoyable payoff at the end.

Takashi Miike's "Audition" is another horror film that springs to mind that uses a slow build up completely to it's advantage.

Apparently though Ti West's film "The Roost" is complete fucking garbage from the reviews I have read. Anyone here seen that? It's his debut and is a zombie movie.

astrozombie

P.S

I checked out that Adam Mason bloke last night. I watched his film "Blood River", fucking fantastic piece of work. The start was a bit dodgy, I did think it was going to be rubbish based on the first 10 minutes but then it completely went in a direction I wasn't expecting and I think it is one of the best psychological horror films I have seen in a good long while.

Andrew Howard was great in it also. I tried getting "The Devil's Chair" but it didn't work on my Xbox so I have just ordered it off Amazon. Will report back with the review for that in a few days.

El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: danyulx on May 10, 2012, 08:58:25 PM


I really liked 'The Blair Witch Project' too. To echo what other people have already said, what singled out that film for me from the sleuth of knock-offs that followed is that it was really well acted. I could easily imagine getting hooked into believing it was real, if I knew nothing about it before seeing it. The acting in the first 'Paranormal Activity', on the other hand, was atrocious, which instantly distanced me from shitting myself during the viewing experience.


For me that was the key. I've seen loads of other similar films like The Last Exorcism, Paranormal Activity, etc. and they fall at the first hurdle because you're supposed to believe it's documentary/found footage but the actors are like something from a cheesy soap opera. But, I guess they keep making them because the profit margin is absolutely huge. You can make a film with a cheap home camera and a couple of amateur actors for next to nothing, get a theatrical release and make $100 million+.

Incidentally, the "found footage" thing was featured a lot earlier (1989) than Blair Witch, in a low-budget Vietnam war film called 84C MoPic. Haven't seen it in a while, but I recall it working pretty well because it was well acted and they kept it simple.

Theremin

What's this House of the Dead film people keep talking about?

Surely you don't mean the Uwe Boll videogame adaptation?

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: Theremin on May 12, 2012, 05:22:35 PM
What's this House of the Dead film people keep talking about?

Surely you don't mean the Uwe Boll videogame adaptation?

Now read it again.

Theremin

I must be having a thick moment.

Paaaaul

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on May 12, 2012, 02:53:10 PM
Incidentally, the "found footage" thing was featured a lot earlier (1989) than Blair Witch, in a low-budget Vietnam war film called 84C MoPic. Haven't seen it in a while, but I recall it working pretty well because it was well acted and they kept it simple.
Cannibal Holocaust was considerably earlier than that, and I would be amazed if that was the first.