Max Payne 3

[Noodle Lizard]

It's out.  Does anyone care?

I haven't got it yet (waiting for the cost to drop a bit, as it usually does after a month or so), but the original Max Payne was an obsession of mine when I was around a decade old (mostly because I couldn't convince my parents to buy it because it was too violent, and then when I eventually sourced a copy through my own wicked means, it didn't run on our PC - eventually, after about a year, I won a PC in a game magazine competition which I only entered in the hopes that I would finally be able to play Payne.  So ends my little story.)

Then Max Payne 2 came out without me even hearing about it, and without anyone really seeming to give a fuck, but when I finally picked it up I loved it - really great storytelling for what is essentially an action game.  I may try and download it on Xbox actually.

Now there's this one.  Looks a bit too "hardass explosiony gun flingy flipper gorkcunt" compared to the sort of cool, noiry and subtleish approach of the first two.  Quite likely has different developers behind it, quite likely wants to compete with Gears Of Halo: Modern Battlefield N ... but I'll give it a fair go.

Anyone bought it, played it?  What's it like?  What do I think about it?

[Big Jack McBastard]

I'm on the fence until other people tell me what to think... but even then I might just snap and get it next week.

[Jerzy Bondov]

I care a lot and can't wait to play it. The first two are some of my favourite games, and while I'm prepared for this to be a different beast, I'll be very surprised if I'm let down. Apparently it's mental. Unfortunately I accidentally had it delivered to my parents' address so I've got to drive all the way down there to get it. It's torture.

[Dark Sky]

I played the first two recently, and whilst I don't think they're that good (mostly because before I played the first one I thought it would be a kind of detective puzzle/action game, rather than a simplistic, horribly linear third-person twitch shooter), I really enjoyed playing them.

I have pre-ordered Max Payne 3, but it hasn't arrived yet.  Though I think I read somewhere that the PC version comes out a bit later than the console versions, which is mad, considering it's a PC franchise for god's sake.

[Entropy Balsmalch]

Played through the first couple of levels last night. I've never played the others before, but this got sent through to my friend to review for the Xbox but he's got a PS3 so he's given it to me.

Given my lack of knowledge about the previous parts of the series I don't know how helpful my thoughts will be, but I've enjoyed it so far with some reservation.

It's beautiful to look at. Really cinematic cut scenes with a clever comic book style framing of certain bits of action. The opening sequence is really impressive too with a clever conceit which I won't disclose because I'm not sure if it's a spoiler. Slightly distracting though is a weird filter which flashes over the screen distorting colours and ghosting images.

Gameplay wise, my first thought is it reminds me of a sort of free-roaming Time Crisis. This is further enhanced by the "bullet time" feature which means you can leap sideways through the air in slow motion - picking off people as you go.

Technically it's very impressive too with no obvious load screens for large sections - you just carry on through the level and it must be using some cut scenes and little set pieces to paper the gaps.

The annoyances for me are similar to a few other games like this, and in particular MGS. The cut scenes are too long at times. It's a good 10 minutes from starting a new game to firing your first shot, possibly longer. I don't want to watch a slightly shit film (maybe because I've got no knowledge of back story that I think it's shit - but the hard drinking, bitter cop making bad similes doesn't really do it for me), I want to be taking part.

Secondly, there's a naff LA Noire-esque "look for clues" feature which just means wandering round, spotting something lying on the floor, clicking Y and then triggering another VO or cut scene just telling you to keep going forward on the linear level (perhaps the levels get less linear later? Only played the first two).

I'll certainly be cranking it up later - and I'll probably be playing it well before I start on the other review copy which got sent through for some new Tom Clancy game which may never get played.

[mobias]

I've played it and seen it being played briefly. I'm not sure its my cup of tea. On a technical level its a marvel. Like all Rockstar's output its AAA production values and then some. The premise of the game doesn't really interest me though, its just one huge long shooter wrapped around a fairly average cinematic story. By the looks of things Rockstar have really upped their game when it comes to online multiplayer, it looks really well implemented but its still essentially bang bang you're dead ad infinitum. Beautiful environments though and the physics look amazing.

[buntyman]

I thought it looked a bit shit from the trailers but your description has got me more interested. Lovefilm are sending me a copy so I should be able to get stuck into it next week. One of the main things I look for in games these days is ease of regular game saving. How does it work in max Payne 3?

[Mister Six]

I wish people would stop using the word 'linear' as a pejorative.

[chocky909]

Why was Max Payne 2 such a non event?

[Jerzy Bondov]

No idea - I thought it was a fantastic game, probably one of the best sequels ever. In my world it was a huge event! It did everything the first one did but with much more confidence and class. The levels set in the funhouse and the dream sequences were brilliant and it had loads of other memorable bits. It never had anything to match the amazing kung fu mod for the first one though.

[Dark Sky]

I wish people would stop using the word 'linear' as a pejorative.

Lineanity is often a criticism, though.  Even other corridor shooters like Doom aren't as linear as Max Payne 1 and 2.  Sometimes it's nice to feel like you're in control of where you're going, and to have options for how to proceed.  Max Payne was always a straight line.  Keep heading forwards, there's no other options, and no way you can go wrong!  So saying, many battles would require trying different tactics over and over to survive.

I used the word only to demonstrate the difference between what I thought the game was going to be (i.e., some kind of sophisticated first person puzzle / action game, like a 1940's detective noir version of Deus Ex, I guess), and what it actually turned out to be.  But once I realised the limitations and repetitiveness I just eased up and enjoyed the games.  There is something incredibly cool about doing a slow motion dive as you pump bad guys full of lead.  When it worked; that is.  Usually I would end up diving slowly into walls.

[Entropy Balsmalch]

I wish people would stop using the word 'linear' as a pejorative.

Who did?

EDIT: Ah, Dark Sky. I was just asking as I didn't feel my use was pejorative. I love many linear games and was using it here merely as a description of the linear levels.

[Dark Sky]

In my defence, I didn't say that "linear" meant bad; I did affix the word "horribly" in front of it.  There are many wonderfully linear games, I'm sure.

[Entropy Balsmalch]

In my defence, I didn't say that "linear" meant bad; I did affix the word "horribly" in front of it.  There are many wonderfully linear games, I'm sure.

Yeah - I didn't read it as being specifically that all linear games were bad.  My frustration with the concept of linear games is only when they seem to be trying to pretend they're not. LA Noire was a prime example. It didn't matter what you did and, the course of events was rigid. It was sold entirely on the idea of you being the investigator, when in fact you were just a spectator given the chance to wander round and pick up bottles before eventually picking up yet another laundry ticket etc.

[Dark Sky]

So saying, LA Noire does let you choose which place to go to next in your investigation, which can affect the outcome...and there are multiple outcomes depending on which clues you find, and what responses you give to the questioning.  It isn't a great game by any means, but its problems are more down to it being repetitive, simplistic and dull.

[Jerzy Bondov]

Just had to force myself to stop playing this because it felt like I was going through it too quickly. Haven't had a single achievement off it yet though so maybe that's just an illusion. The pace of it is pretty relentless.

Graphically it's absolutely stunning, probably the best looking game my Xbox has ever pumped out for me. The attention to detail is amazing: unlike in Mass Effect 3, he holds the gun you were using in the cutscenes, even if you were holding a shotgun in one hand and firing an uzi with the other. At first I felt it was overdoing its visual tics but they've either calmed down or I've got used to it. The way it just runs from cutscene to gameplay, even between completely different settings, is extremely cool and doesn't give you any neat moments to say 'right that's enough of that' and turn it off. You can really mulch people up with the guns, to the extent that it would almost be disturbing if it didn't make you feel like such a Cool Dude.

The story seems fairly straightforward so far, but Max Payne has always been about style over substance and this is no different. Some classic Payne similes too (

Spoiler alert

The place had more smoke and mirrors than a strip club dressing room

[close]

for example). It's also pretty tough. I've got it on Medium and set it to Free Aim because it felt a bit like cheating having the game help me to shoot people. This makes it feel more like classic Max, which is to say pretty hard. I miss my keyboard and mouse a bit.

Despite the new cover system, the game really encourages you to take crazy risks. For one it looks stylish, and there's a feature where if you get killed and are carrying painkillers, you get a couple of seconds to shoot your killer. If you pull it off then you come back to life. You can even do this while sailing through the air from being blown up by a grenade.

Wow I wrote loads. I'm having such a great time with this game!!

[Dark Sky]

Oh, it has set difficulty levels now?  That's a shame.  One of my favourite things about the first two games was the way that you couldn't set a difficulty, and the game just made it harder or easier depending on how well you were doing.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

This is making me feel all nostalgic. The original was one of the first games I got for the PS2, back in my first year at university. It feels so very long ago now. The second game passed me by too. After that and the crummy film adaptation, I'm surprised the series is getting this sort of AAA treatment.

I don't think the first game could have worked without being linear. The path it led you along was so meticulously crafted that I expect the developers would have found it a pain in the arse, if not downright impossible, to include a free roaming aspect as well, given the technology of the time. The level set in the exploding restaurant is one of the best setpieces I've ever played - there wasn't anything like that in GTA3, as great as it was.

[Big Jack McBastard]

Well snapped, traded a couple, bought, you know the drill.

I'm trying it on Hard right off the bat and seeing many an entry wound in the eyeball as Max's fate, though pills are abundant. looks canny enough and the animations are verr nice though there are a few squinks, re-checking a piece of evidence is something you'll try not to do more than once just for the "Oh for fucks sake, really?" of waiting about it causes and probably this is likely intentional but running out of bullets in a given gun while engaged in a stand-off leads to you shafted, clicking the empty chambers of your weapon in slow-mo, unable to switch it out.. annnnd death.

So many of the situations are resolved by diving straight into Shootdodge over the heads of your enemies and picking off skulls as you you go, landing on the floor, staying there and shooting the remainder of the goons in the joy department as they pile in. A more conservative approach using cover sees you flanked, grenaded or set ablaze unless you're careful to pick off the bolder AI buggers.

Good show so far, up to about chapter 9 and I agree it is tight with the achievements.

[Mister Six]

I used the word only to demonstrate the difference between what I thought the game was going to be

Ah, apologies (although I thought you were talking about Max Payne).

[Still Not George]

A friend of mine was the primary graphics coder (not lead, but the guy under him) on the 360 version, so tis gratifying to see so much praise for the pretties.

[Jobey]

This game is the shit and Max looks like Walter White.

[Noodle Lizard]

I just watched the first half an hour or so of gameplay.  I'm not sure how much you can really gauge from watching someone else play, but it seems pretty dull so far, sadly.  It doesn't look like anything's really changed in terms of gameplay (except for occasional bits of LA Noire style tedium) and even graphically it doesn't seem too impressive.  Meh.

As I said, I expect playing it is the only way to really know whether it's good or not, but I watch gameplay footage quite often before buying a game and have been far more inspired to do so than this one.  Maybe my expectations were too high.

[Jobey]

Nothing has changed in terms of gameplay.
You repeatedly shoot people in the face in slow motion.

[buntyman]

I'm probably about halfway through it and, for all the impressive looking locations it's fairly bland and repetitive. The controls don't quite feel right for a game that's supposed to be played in a gung ho fashion, I find it too hard to see the little aiming dot for quickly changing from shooting one guy in the head to another during a slow motion dive. I think it'd feel a lot better using a mouse for that. The duck and cover doesn't work great either and I keep accidentally moving out of cover and paying for it. There are a few fun, over the top set pieces that are quite Time Crisis like but the dull cutscenes bookending them have a detrimental effect on the overall pace. Glad I've only rented it, I'll probably finish mindlessly blasting through it and then send it back, never to think of it again.

[Dark Sky]

The controls don't quite feel right for a game that's supposed to be played in a gung ho fashion, I find it too hard to see the little aiming dot for quickly changing from shooting one guy in the head to another during a slow motion dive. I think it'd feel a lot better using a mouse for that.

I was wondering about how well such a precision shooter game would work on a console.  I'm terrible at any shooter on a console with the little thumb stick thingies.  I know console ports of PC games tend to utilise auto-aim and/or less precision is needed because they make the hit spots larger, etc, but I still find it very difficult.

[Jerzy Bondov]

It's got three different aiming styles. With Hard Lock you just have to hold down the left trigger and your pointer sticks to people. It's way too easy and feels like cheating. Soft Lock is similar but it doesn't follow people as closely and you have to be aiming in roughly the right direction. Both of these lock on to people's chests, so if you want to run around blasting people directly in the face then you're best off with Free Aim, which makes it really difficult if you're not good at aiming with thumbsticks (like me). You have to tweak the sensitivity settings a bit before it feels right though. I do think I'd be doing a lot better with a mouse, but it gets the job done.

[Famous Mortimer]

Why was Max Payne 2 such a non event?

It wasn't. It won a bunch of awards and completely took over mine and my friends' lives for that summer (not just the game, but all the mods).

[Dark Sky]

Max Payne 2 was a bit disappointing, though, wasn't it?  I didn't find it as fun to play as the original, although it had a few really nice setpieces.  One idea I really liked was the ongoing soap opera you could stick around and listen to coming from the TV sets! 

But it kinda repeated a lot of similar level ideas from the original game (such as running through burning building type stuff), tried to provide variety by letting you control The Woman One for a bit (but with absolutely no variation in gameplaying style at all), and I found it disappointingly short.  Which is saying something coming from me, because I think all games go on far too long!

Admittedly I didn't do any mod stuff or anything.

[mobias]

Does anyone here follow Graham Linehan on twitter? He was wading into the game last night. I must say I do agree with him generally about Rockstar. I'm a huge fan of what the studio do its just a shame they can't employ decent script writers ( not that they're alone in the games industry there mind you )

https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/Glinner