Stewart Lee: The Alternative Comedy Experience

[NoSleep]

Didn't Bill Hicks do that?

No. He was religious himself, but not a creationist. He said creationists were put on the earth to test his own faith.

[rudi]

It was the article that used the word "cult" and even then wrapped it in single inverted commas so I wouldn't get too sniffy about the "cultness" of those chosen. What was actually said was "comedians who perform regularly on the stand-up circuit but are rarely seen on television" which I think that list is a fair example of (ie not from the usual stable of Apollo/panel show guests).

You really should understand this sort of thing. Didn't you pretend you were doing a Jack Whitehall impression in your comedy videos because you were ashamed of having quite a posh accent?

So Americans can't identify poor/humorously ignorant countrymen just by doing a voice? Bullcrap, mush. "H-yuck!"

[KLG-7A]

You're desperate to show that you don't really get it, which is fine. I'm not spending my weekend arguing about this with people who really don't have a clue.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Chortle mentions other names:

Josie Long, Eleanor Tiernan, Paul Foot, Henning Wehn and - in a move likely to act as a batsignal to thepuffpastryhangman - the comedy stylings of Mrs S. Lee

http://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2012/06/08/15553/stewart_lee_curates_alt.comedy_showcase#ixzz1xCPTnrfM

[KLG-7A]

Dismal.

[thepuffpastryhangman]

^
Assuming neither of them are appearing at Leveson that day.

I've heard her, rather meteorically, in a quiz team on the radio a few times. By the show's standards she's not been too bad. But she's never nearly said anything you might not've heard from any number of other people, some of them comedians.

[rudi]

You're desperate to show that you don't really get it, which is fine. I'm not spending my weekend arguing about this

You have so far........

[Noodle Lizard]

No. He was religious himself, but not a creationist. He said creationists were put on the earth to test his own faith.

So?  They still make fun of fundamentalists and both adopt a Southern "lower class" accent when they do so.  That's all I was saying.

I'm not comparing them qualitatively, but it seems unfair to criticise someone for doing something you've praised someone else for doing.  You can criticise them for doing it badly, though, by all means.

And again, I think Robin Ince is a rubbish bit of rubbish.

[Noodle Lizard]

You really should understand this sort of thing. Didn't you pretend you were doing a Jack Whitehall impression in your comedy videos because you were ashamed of having quite a posh accent?Thanks for your contribution.

Haha, what?!  I don't have a particularly posh accent, I mumble with a muddled accent which leads people to think I'm either Irish or Scandinavian.  The reason I adopted a posh accent in Anticrostini (available from all good YouTube searches) was because I was playing an overprivileged moron[nb]That all being said, I would quite like to have a naturally posh accent - but more like Derren Brown or even Basil Fawlty than Jack Whitehall[/nb].  I'm a huge method actor akin to De Niro or Day Lewis, don't you know.

Also, Anticrostini wasn't a "comedy video", it's deadly fucking serious you cunt.

[Crabwalk]

There's a lengthy/awkward interview with Richard Herring on Law's first GFS DVD that indicates that Law's offstage demeanour isn't a million miles away from his onstage one.

Law's a likely candidate right enough, but I may shy away from it so as not to be served his upcoming Fringe show in bite-sized chunks.

Was Brainporium his first GFS DVD? I've got that on a shelf at home, ready to go.

Looks less likely he'll feature in this show then, following that Chortle update. Still, seeing him in September so I'll be getting my 2012 fill of Mr Tony one way or another.

[NoSleep]

I'm not comparing them qualitatively, but it seems unfair to criticise someone for doing something you've praised someone else for doing. 

Who's done what? I think it was mentioned Bill Hicks was recalling conversations he'd actually engaged in (possibly recounting said story to people with the same accent as he was adopting), rather than representing a group of people as "thick" (because Ince "knows better" than them) by adopting an accent that suggested they couldn't possibly have received a proper education (to a room of people that speak like Ince).

[Noodle Lizard]

Who's done what? I think it was mentioned Bill Hicks was recalling conversations he'd actually engaged in (possibly recounting said story to people with the same accent as he was adopting), rather than representing a group of people as "thick" (because Ince "knows better" than them) by adopting an accent that suggested they couldn't possibly have received a proper education (to a room of people that speak like Ince).

Who's to say Hicks actually had those conversations and who's to say Ince actually didn't?  Surely pretending you're having a conversation is a commonly-used comedic device in order to make your point (or rebuke other people's).  Doug Stanhope does this often as well, but I don't think he's trying to convince anyone that this exact conversation actually happened, and I think the same about Hicks.  Doug also doesn't use the Southern accent, mind.

[Theremin]

So?  They still make fun of fundamentalists and both adopt a Southern "lower class" accent when they do so.  That's all I was saying.

I'm not comparing them qualitatively, but it seems unfair to criticise someone for doing something you've praised someone else for doing.  You can criticise them for doing it badly, though, by all means.

I think what he's saying is that when Ince (a middle-class university-educated Englishman) puts on a southern accent, it has a vastly different implication and context to when Hicks (an American who grew up in a rural lower-class family in the South of America) does it.

When Ince does it, he's displaying his open contempt for a group of people he almost never interacts with, and clearly depises. When Hicks does it, it's about the frustration he feels when dealing with the ignorance of a group of people he grew up around, and still belongs to.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Was Brainporium his first GFS DVD? I've got that on a shelf at home, ready to go.

It's on the first DVD, which is the 'An Hour And A Bit of Tony Law' one.

Odd to see him on Channel Dave the other night appearing as a sports commentator in an advert for their summer line up of programmes.

[Noodle Lizard]

I think what he's saying is that when Ince (a middle-class university-educated Englishman) puts on a southern accent, it has a vastly different implication and context to when Hicks (an American who grew up in a rural lower-class family in the South of America) does it.

When Ince does it, he's displaying his open contempt for a group of people he almost never interacts with, and clearly depises.

Ehhh.  I take your point about Hicks's background, but I think that last part is rather unfair conjecture.

[Theremin]

Ehhh.  I take your point about Hicks's background, but I think that last part is rather unfair conjecture.

Fair enough. I am making an assumption based on what most people seem to take from his act.

But the important thing here isn't necessarily what Hicks or Ince actually feel, but what effect the use of that voice in their acts has.

[Noodle Lizard]

Fair enough. I am making an assumption based on what most people seem to take from his act.

But the important thing here isn't necessarily what Hicks or Ince actually feel, but what effect the use of that voice in their acts has.

Right on.  It seems to me that doing this ...

"the brilliant observations that theists believe in deities and putting on a voice which is probably best described as working class southerner so we know that religious people are stupid and didn't you go to university? I like books"

... isn't necessarily bad in and of itself (obviously you can make anything sound bad by writing sarcastically).

[James Christopher]

Also, Hicks' accent was quite similar to that of the last US president. We've not had many prime ministers who sound working class. Hence the class issue.

Looking forward to the series though. It's not a million miles from Herring's podcasts, though I'm sure the tone will be different with Lee.

[Theremin]

Right on.  It seems to me that doing this ...

"the brilliant observations that theists believe in deities and putting on a voice which is probably best described as working class southerner so we know that religious people are stupid and didn't you go to university? I like books"

... isn't necessarily bad in and of itself (obviously you can make anything sound bad by writing sarcastically).

Yeah.

Also, as far as I know, Hicks didn't go to university. Self-educated all the way.

[Noodle Lizard]

Yeah.

Also, as far as I know, Hicks didn't go to university. Self-educated all the way.

Yep, I did know that.  Although people have accused him of being snobbish/elitist (and when I say people, I do mean Jerry Sadowitz talking about his reading a book in a diner story).

[CaledonianGonzo]

Maybe Lee will get this fella on.  He's playing the same venue:

http://www.edfringe.com/whats-on/comedy/gavin-webster-bill-hicks-wasn-t-very-good

[Theremin]

Maybe Lee will get this fella on.  He's playing the same venue:

http://www.edfringe.com/whats-on/comedy/gavin-webster-bill-hicks-wasn-t-very-good

I'd like to see that.

Seems as though he's being ironic, but I'm still interested to see where he'd take it.

[Tiny Poster]

Ince wouldn't be quite so matchsticks-under-nails bad if he could actually deliver a joke properly.

[Small Man Big Horse]

Chortle mentions other names:

Josie Long, Eleanor Tiernan, Paul Foot, Henning Wehn and - in a move likely to act as a batsignal to thepuffpastryhangman - the comedy stylings of Mrs S. Lee

http://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2012/06/08/15553/stewart_lee_curates_alt.comedy_showcase#ixzz1xCPTnrfM

That pleases me, being a bit fan of Mr Foot, Mr Wehn, and Ms Long. As for Mrs S.Lee, having seen her live, she does deserve a slot on a show like this too. Though I wonder if she'd have been invited on it if it wasn't for her hubbie's involvement.

[olliebean]

I think what he's saying is that when Ince (a middle-class university-educated Englishman) puts on a southern accent, it has a vastly different implication and context to when Hicks (an American who grew up in a rural lower-class family in the South of America) does it.

When Ince does it, he's displaying his open contempt for a group of people he almost never interacts with, and clearly depises. When Hicks does it, it's about the frustration he feels when dealing with the ignorance of a group of people he grew up around, and still belongs to.

When you put it like that, I realised that what Ince does is roughly equivalent to when Russell Kane puts on his posh voice to pretend to be the buffoonish middle classes, which I personally find especially irksome as one of them always seems to be called Ollie.

[Thursday]

and feature the likes of Robin Ince, Simon Munnerys and Phil Nichol.

A subtle Lee &Herring reference?

It is a bit nepotismy, but I'll be glad to see Bridget Christie given a chance she's more than the equal of some of the people on the list.

[Cagey Joe]

Putting his wife on?

This would never be tolerated...(wait, I die).

[thenoise]

Yep, I did know that.  Although people have accused him of being snobbish/elitist (and when I say people, I do mean Jerry Sadowitz talking about his reading a book in a diner story).

Sadowitz also said Bill Hicks is a poor man's Lenny Bruce - a worse crime in his eyes.

[Default to the negative]

What would people say is an acceptable voice when imitating a stupid person? Seems to me that it's something many comedians need to have in their stand-up arsenal, and there's only four ways they can go with it: Regional, classist, "retarded" or some combination of the three. Each one is a potential minefield, really. Slee has a whiny-git voice that he uses for stupid opinions, which does kind of get around it, but you can't have everyone doing that.

[thepuffpastryhangman]

Ideally, saying something stupid would be enough to imitate a stupid person.