Stewart Lee: The Alternative Comedy Experience

[CaledonianGonzo]

The belligerence in the words of Christ? That "love everyone" ethic must really wind 'em up. The Golden Rule's really asking for it. FFS.

The hypocrisy of those who would preach such words whilst attempting to stymie, say, scientific education in schools.

[thenoise]

Ince isn't so much mocking the stupid as implying that everyone who holds religious beliefs - i.e. people that don't agree with 'us' - are gibbering retards so dumb that they haven't noticed that they lost the argument years ago to us 'enlightened ones'.  The implication is that no educated person is ever religious, and no religious person retains their faith after being educated (which is obviously nonsense).
He demonstrates this by putting forward arguments that no educated religious person would ever, ever use and brilliantly demolishing them before our eyes!
I'm not a huge fan of Richard Dawkins but at least he bothers to acknowledge two thousand years of philosophy and culture before arguing that it's all nonsense.  Ince just seems to be pointing out which side he is on and making spaz faces at the 'opposition'.

[Theremin]

And so, with Lee, Ince and Long and any other comedian, their attacks on stupidity are rarely context-free attacks on people less well-educated than them.  They're attacks on belligerence and against those whom, for whatever reason, they feel aggrieved by.

It should also be said that there is a difference between stupidity, wilful ignorance, and simply being uneducated.

Some of those can be argued to be more worthy of mockery than others.

[Zetetic]

Ince just seems to be pointing out which side he is on and making spaz faces at the 'opposition'.

Yes, Ince's stuff seems to be much more (explicitly?) about group identity and a sense of shared superiority.


I think it's partly tied into what we actually think the point of satire is - Could Morris's work actually have lead to a change in how social issues are presented, and how 'celebrity' interacts with this? Could Ince's work ever actually change someone's opinion of Intelligent Design? 

[Theremin]

Yes, Ince's stuff seems to be much more (explicitly?) about group identity and a sense of shared superiority.

Absolutely, he does specifically identify himself as a 'skeptic'.

[Ferro Carril]

I've just watched my first clip of Robin Ince's comedy. Within a minute, he managed to attack the intellectual and moral inferiority of uneducated common people and enunciated long words to show us he was different. I think the enunciation and the long words were the punchline from the audience reaction. Well done, Robert!

Sadly, I didn't get to his atheist material as I expect this is where he soars.

[thepuffpastryhangman]

It should also be said that there is a difference between stupidity, wilful ignorance, and simply being uneducated.

It's not easy juggling all three, I can tell ya.

Could Ince's work ever actually change someone's opinion of Intelligent Design? 

Or even Intelligent Purchase?

[thepuffpastryhangman]

I take it you're not a fan of Morris or VLS then?

I'm not really familiar with VLS, barely remember him on TV. I like TDT and BE of course, not so sure about much else.

You seem to be saying that average-to-below-average intelligence or an upbringing without priviledge is a free pass for obnoxious behaviour.

Not "a free pass" but accountability (degrees of) must be linked to awareness (of consequences of behaviour).

[EDIT - changing "of" to "to"]

[Famous Mortimer]

For christ's sake, we all know exactly what puffy is going to say, and it'll be something stupid. slightly to one side of the point, and he'll ignore every single reasonable point made. Can we all just stop feeding the troll?

[Default to the negative]

I like TDT and BE

Would you not say that Carla Lane, "Wolf" from Gladiator, Richard Blackwood and arguably even dear old Bernard Manning all fell into the category of "don't know any better"?

For christ's sake, we all know exactly what puffy is going to say, and it'll be something stupid. slightly to one side of the point, and he'll ignore every single reasonable point made. Can we all just stop feeding the troll?

No.

[thepuffpastryhangman]

I watched Robin Ince in Manchester a few years ago and he was really really good.

To be fair, if I looked in the mirror and saw you I'd probably think the same.

[Ferro Carril]

For christ's sake, we all know exactly what puffy is going to say, and it'll be something stupid. slightly to one side of the point, and he'll ignore every single reasonable point made. Can we all just stop feeding the troll?

Groupthink in action, there.

[thepuffpastryhangman]

Would you not say that Carla Lane, "Wolf" from Gladiator, Richard Blackwood and arguably even dear old Bernard Manning all fell into the category of "don't know any better"?

Those aren't the bits I like. I much prefer something like The Drumlake Experiment to any of the duping stuff.
I did enjoy Phil Collins "talking nonce sense" but - and I'm yet to check out Brand X - recently, since Four Lions (loada rubbish) I've started to think Collins might be better than Morris. In terms of total bodies of work, not as a human being. If I had time I'd start a thread on it. But I've not heard, say, The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, for decades so I'd need to do some homework before jumping either way. Though Collins complete works do probably have more merit, even if they lack the supreme highs of Morris' finest half hours.

[thomasina]

The duped celebs spouting nonce sense wasn't a pop at their stupidity.  It was an attack on their whorishness and complete lack of sincerity.  If you think about the first Ali G series, which pretty much relied 100% on getting well known people to say stupid things, the ones that came over well were just as fooled by the character as the ones who came over very badly.  Tony Benn took Ali G at face value, but didn't find that any reason to nod and agree with the rubbish he was saying.  Most of the other 'victims' found themselves agreeing with his palpable nonsense, presumably because they felt unable to challenge a black 'yoof' presenter.  It was the exposure of their cowardice and bigotry that made it funny, not their stupidity.

[thenoise]

Could Ince's work ever actually change someone's opinion of Intelligent Design?

Is that even his intention?  I doubt he would persuade any intelligent Christian to question their beliefs, unless it is out of a desire to 'fit in' with his cool atheist gang (which doesn't look that appealing from here).

[anoxicblaze]

Has somebody just suggested Josie Long is an intellectual? Christ. Anyway...is there anywhere on this site to link to bootleg recordings? I know of a Stewart Lee one from Friday. Or do I just do it here? Or is it bad to do that?

[Neil]

Go ahead, think he's nearly finished touring it and I'll remove it if he objects.

[anoxicblaze]

Enjoy!
(Removed)

[Default to the negative]

Thanks a lot, anoxicblaze.

[anoxicblaze]

My pleasure. Unless I get Sued. I hate Sue.

[monolith]

Is that even his intention?  I doubt he would persuade any intelligent Christian to question their beliefs, unless it is out of a desire to 'fit in' with his cool atheist gang (which doesn't look that appealing from here).

Intelligent Christians can't be creationists. The two are mutually exclusive.

[Mark Steels Stockbroker]

Could Ince's work ever actually change someone's opinion of Intelligent Design?

No more than Mark Thomas could ever make someone left-wing.

On the other hand, I suppose Chris Rock's pro-affirmative action material might possibly change minds amongst the white frat boys who turn up to see him. Or perhaps he just drives away a chunk of audience who would be happy with him if he dropped all that stuff. Seriously, we need a social scientist to study this, because if any comedian is going to make a difference in his audience's attitudes it would probably be Rock, doing shows like Never Scared to huge crowds, rather than Robin Ince playing to some Guardian readers in a theatre in Malvern.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Edinburgh Newsletter - Monday 11 June 2012
Comedy Central comes to The Stand

The Stand is pleased to announce that Comedy Central will be filming a brand new TV series with us in July. The Alternative Comedy Experience features a variety of genre-busting, cult-comedy performer's alongside some internationally acclaimed, award-winning talent, handpicked by the channel.

Filmed from 2nd-6th July in our Edinburgh club, the series of live performances will then air on Comedy Central as part of the autumn 2012 line up.

MONDAY 2 JULY
6.45pm (doors 6.15pm): KEVIN ELDON, JOSIE LONG
9.45pm (doors 9.15pm): SIMON MUNNERY, ANDY ZALTZMAN

TUESDAY 3 JULY
6.45pm (doors 6.15pm): ROBIN INCE & special guest tbc
9.45pm (doors 9.15pm): PHIL NICHOL & special guest tbc

WEDNESDAY 4 JULY
6.45pm (doors 6.15pm): PAUL FOOT, ELEANOR TIERNAN
9.45pm (doors 9.15pm): HENNING WEHN, SAM SIMMONS

THURSDAY 5 JULY
6.45pm (doors 6.15pm): Line up still to be announced
9.45pm (doors 9.15pm): Line up still to be announced

FRIDAY 6 JULY
6.45pm (doors 6.15pm): MAEVE HIGGINS, PAUL SINHA, DAVID O DOHERTY
9.45pm (doors 9.15pm): BRIDGET CHRISTIE, TONY LAW & special guest tbc

Ticket Information
Tickets for all shows will go on sale on our website www.thestand.co.uk at 11am on Tuesday 12 June.

(please note that all listings are subject to change).

No mention of Lee.  Presumably not wanting to flog tickets on the back of his name if he's not performing.  I wonder whether he'll even be present - the 'interviews' he's conducting won't have to be done at the same time as the performances.

[thugler]

Enjoy!
(removed)

This link isn't working for me.

[marquis_de_sad]

This link isn't working for me.

Works for me. But I put it on mediafire for you in case you were having problems with dropbox: (Removed)

[Neil]

Sorry, Stewart Lee, that was entirely my fault.  As a big music fan, I thought you wouldn't mind the posting of the odd bootleg, so we could study the difference in the show as it goes along, with particular emphasis on the topical bits.  Sorry.

[CaledonianGonzo]

I can't say I'm surprised that a moneyed elite from the Oxford and Cambridge Universities objects to people less well-educated and privileged than he is sharing his work without payment.

He's truly now part of the 1%.

[Patman]

You can't even share a little file without the EU banning conkers, Stew!

[weekender]

So it's OK for Mr Lee to steal words that have been made in public on a forum and use them for his own comedic purposes on his website, but he objects when people share his own words that have been made in public in mp3 form because that's what, copyright?

[Tiny Poster]

howardsternspenis