Breaking Bad season 5 (July 15th)

[Phil_A]

HummingofEvil, I am someone who thinks that The Wire is the best US TV Drama at least.  I've never watched single episodes of Breaking Bad sorry if I wasn't clear, I started watching from the start, gave up due to boring then thought I give it more of a chance (now about half way though season three). 

Thinking of your post has made me think of it basically as a play on TV conventions (so far - I have been told to expect otherwise): the two dimensional characters, the limitations (I see) of the plot, the fact that it doesn't seem create a world beyond what happens to the main characters, the foreshadowing that makes me keep calling it borrowing, the silly foreign baddies, even the fact you mentioned about the female characters being particularly rubbish...  Is it actually about TV rather than... Walter? 

Also, I realise I am definitely reading too far into it and am going to bed.

To be honest, if you've already reached episode 7 of Season 3(which ends with a particularly dramatic turn of events for Hank) and still think the show is boring, then...fuck, I don't know. I'm not sure what you're looking for in a modern serialised drama, but it's probably not this.

I have to take issue with the idea that BB doesn't create a world beyond the main characters. I mean, apart from the fact that it takes place in the middle of a raging cartel war, the huge scale of which becomes increasingly apparent as the series goes on, you've got supporting characters like Saul, Mike, Gus, Hector, etc who all have their own history and expand the scope of the series. Wasn't the whole point of Season 2 to show that Walt's decisions don't exist in a vacuum, and often have dire consequences in the wider world?

Also I don't think the "silly foreign baddies" are that silly. They're over the top, sure, but if the show presented the real brutality and cruelty of Mexican drug gangs, then it probably wouldn't be very enjoyable to watch.

[Paaaaul]

I think killing Jesse off was just something Gilligan had in mind when he was initially plotting out the first few episodes, but quickly discarded when they started filming and he saw how well Cranston and Paul played off each other. Since the second season wasn't plotted out at the same time as the first (they just write each season from scratch, I believe) I don't think it could have been the plan to kill him in Grilled, anyway.

EDIT: From Wikipedia:

Aren't the first few eps of series 2 essentially the end of the shortened first series?

[VegaLA]

I was zipping through at about 3 episodes a day

Fucking hardcore. HARDCORE!

[chand]

I 'teach' Breaking Bad (for want of a better word) and so twice every year for the past three years I have screened the first two episodes. I have seen them quite a few times now and I am able to marvel at how brilliantly constructed they are. The bathtub drop through is always the final scene I show, and it is always the hook. Most students go on to lap up all the subsequent seasons. It really grabs you.

I had a much bigger problem with Hank as a character than anyone else. He just seemed far too broad and alpha as fuck, and I didn't like the lack of subtlety. It didn't take them long to skewer through that perception though - the moment the turtle comes calling Hank spirals off and we see just how vulnerable he really is.

It's wild that they were going to kill off Jesse. Bonkers. The paternal relationship is just so much of why the show works.

I wasn't quite hooked from the first episode. I hadn't actually read that much about the show other than that it was great, I bought the DVD for a tenner in Fopp and gave it a go. For some reason I'd been expecting it to be more of a comedy than it was, so I was a bit thrown by the start. Watching it back, the first ep is really good but it has to do a lot of scene-setting. The second episode's ending really got me though, and by the big incident with Tuco at the end of ep 6 which is the other jaw-drop moment of the season I was hooked. It got a lot better for me as it went on though.

Agree about Hank, he was just a dull alpha prick to begin with, dropping casual racist epithets and seeming like a generic beer-swilling bore. I'm so glad he became a much deeper and more nuanced character as the show went on.

Hard to imagine a show without Jesse now. The worse Walt gets, the more Jesse becomes the heart of the show and the person I really root for.

[Mister Six]

I have to take issue with the idea that BB doesn't create a world beyond the main characters. I mean, apart from the fact that it takes place in the middle of a raging cartel war, the huge scale of which becomes increasingly apparent as the series goes on, you've got supporting characters like Saul, Mike, Gus, Hector, etc who all have their own history and expand the scope of the series. Wasn't the whole point of Season 2 to show that Walt's decisions don't exist in a vacuum, and often have dire consequences in the wider world?

I can sort of see what he's saying, but the show is very deliberately focused on Walt and his closest family and acquaintances. Complaining that it doesn't have a wider scope is like complaining that The Wire doesn't have enough car chases - criticising a show for something it deliberately avoids doing.

[Serge]

I don't think it could have been the plan to kill him in Grilled, anyway.

For some reason I've got it in mind that I read or heard that Jesse was going to be killed off in the ninth episode (which would be 'Grilled'.) I'll have to try and find out where I got that idea from! (EDIT: Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqnoJ10HqP0) It would also tie in with the fact that Tuco was meant to be the Big Bad of series 2, but had to be written out quickly after the actor who played him signed up for something else - in the scenario where he carries on being in the show, 'Grilled' would be the perfect episode to kill Jesse off in. I'm glad that Tuco went, though - for one thing, the actor who plays him wasn't really strong enough to carry off that character for more than the few episodes he's in. For another, it means they had to invent Gus Fring, and for that, I am eternally grateful.

[Johnny Townmouse]

Oh Serge!

That pretty much sums up my feelings. Raymond Cruz's requiement to work on The Closer meant we got a completely different character:

The original intention was to have him be the main bad guy for that entire season, but unfortunately, he had prior commitments after the first episode on a TV show called The Closer – it was a real bummer for us, and I heard through the grapevine a real bummer for him too because he was enjoying his time with us. But, as an actor, he had to honor those contractual commitments. So he became unavailable to us and we thought, 'Man, we're never gonna have a character as good and interesting as he was', but we then thought to ourselves, 'Why don't we go in the complete opposite direction?' – why don't we have a bad guy who doesn't snort meth off the end of a bully knife? Who isn't a screaming lunatic? [We wanted] a bit of a buttoned-down, cold-blooded, soft-spoken businessman, so we came up with the character of Gustavo Fring. Once we found Giancarlo Esposito, we were so very happy. We had this wonderful, unforgettable character because of this great actor and because of this happenstance that brought us to that place.