Microsoft Surface

[KLG-7A]

Use your words, Jamie. Try to write down your thoughts to express yourself. You can do it!

[Jamie Oliver is fat]

are you going to contribute anything of use to this thread, or just troll?

if it's the latter, please fuck off and desperately strive for attention elsewhere

[KLG-7A]

I was contributing, but you went absolutely mental over my completely anodyne comment. Now I'm here to help teach you that you can't just get your own way, Fuckston.

[Replies From View]

if it's the latter, please fuck off and desperately strive for attention elsewhere

Not a moderator even one small bit.

[Still Not George]

You got me there, that's what the 12 year olds are into these days. You can't walk past a playground without hearing some little upstart talking about demographics and brand loyalty.

Actually, most of the time I see people talking about brands and demographics I do find myself thinking they have the thought processes of a 12-year-old. Does that count?

[olliebean]

From reading a bit more about it MS don't seem to be even aiming it at the consumer market. Looks like its more for business and professional use.

The bright neon-pink keyboard begs to differ...

[Jamie Oliver is fat]

completely anodyne comment.

I thought it was an analysis of demographics and brand loyalty?

Not a moderator even one small bit.

That's why I said please

[KLG-7A]

I thought it was an analysis of demographics and brand loyalty?

No, it's clearly not an analysis. You've just made that up so you can have a prickish cry.

[Jamie Oliver is fat]

Am I missing something here? you made a comment that made you sound like you were twelve years old, which you then went on to suggest was actually a discussion about demographics and brand loyalty. Your words.

So if you weren't referencing your post, what were you referencing?

[KLG-7A]

A comment about brand loyalty is about brand loyalty (due to its subject matter being about brand loyalty). It's only inside your ill-at-ease mind that this is equivalent to somebody claiming that they've said something deep and important.

I'm not going to probe you about the 12 year old thing, because it's obvious that this is due to some deep-seated insecurity.

[Replies From View]

I'm going to hazard a guess that KLG-7A wasn't being 100% serious when he agreed that he was behaving like a 12 year old.  Probably the post was sarcastic, or something.

[Jamie Oliver is fat]

Yeah I got that, he made it clear he wasn't behaving like a 12 year old by suggesting a 12 year old couldn't make a comment about demographics and brand loyalty, and unless somethings being deleted, he was referring to his post "But because it's Microsoft no fucker will buy it."

So where's the incisive commentary on brand loyalty and demographics there?

[Replies From View]

I'm not drunk or angry enough to have this conversation yet.  Sorry.

[Jamie Oliver is fat]

You weren't really invited into it to be honest.

[Replies From View]

Invited by whom?  Again, you seem to have mistaken yourself for somebody who's in charge.

So where's the incisive commentary on brand loyalty and demographics there?

My mistake for thinking this question was directed at me, since you were replying to one of my posts when you asked it.

[Jamie Oliver is fat]

Ok, you can join in

KLG's due back in a minute

[KLG-7A]

So where's the incisive commentary on brand loyalty and demographics there?

Nowhere. It was just me saying "cor, I bet the normal tablet-buying public would shy away from something from Microsoft as opposed to Apple". I had to be brief because recess was over and Miss was getting angry. Then she told me off for looking so smug about the deep, mindblowing thing I'd written on the Internet.

[Replies From View]

Ok, you can join in

Gee thanks.


The Microsoft Surface does interest me (in the sense that I'm interested in the evolution of these tablets more generally), but I'm not sure whether that particular screen-cover-that-becomes-a-keyboard will be a lasting gimmick.  It'll be impractical for typing on anything but a very flat surface, and people will be reluctant to use it on cafe tables or anything else they can't trust as perfectly clean.  It's interesting that the cover is separate from the stand though - it's a departure from all the Apple ones, where covers of that style fold up into a triangle for propping up the device.

I'm guessing that people would be buying cases of some description to protect their Surface, and that ultimately the magnetically-attached keyboard will be a bit of a chore.  People will want a keyboard with more tactility than the touchscreen one (I'm not convinced the one embedded in the protective cover will have), and a case that holds it all together tidily.

This is probably the neatest version I've seen for the iPad, as it folds right back and swivels at the hinge, but it does put the tablet quite firmly into laptop territory with the extra bulk.  http://clamcase.com/

[Jamie Oliver is fat]

Nowhere. It was just me saying "cor, I bet the normal tablet-buying public would shy away from something from Microsoft as opposed to Apple". I had to be brief because recess was over and Miss was getting angry. Then she told me off for looking so smug about the deep, mindblowing thing I'd written on the Internet.

Thanks for clarifying/expanding on your point

See, this is better isn't it??

I agree with your ^^^ points about the keyboard, it would be better to fold it out of the way to be able to use an on-screen one as required, but not sure that will work

Looking forward to getting my hands on one

[KLG-7A]

Thanks for clarifying/expanding on your point

See, this is better isn't it??

It's okay to say something briefly. I don't like droning on and on about points that can be made succinctly (I also chose that brief tone to characterise my disappointment in something potentially good being overlooked for petty reasons).

[mcbpete]

Let's just all get our lads out and have a good ol' fashioned wrestle. We'll all feel better in the long run (if a little hollow)

[Entropy Balsmalch]

Poor guy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1zxDa3t0fg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[mcbpete]

He handled it pretty well though - it was clear things fucked up but he swiftly brought the thing back on track with the second tablet

[Entropy Balsmalch]

Yeah - it's the tightening of the the throat and over long pauses which betray his mind doing loops.

Microsoft are cursed with these things - what with the Blue Screen of Death demo and the Voice Recognition one.

[mcbpete]

Yeah not quite as butt clenchingly awkward as those bad boys - with the scanner-bsod one I could completely imagine the looming rage/sacking that's about to be directed towards some techies immediately after the presentation

[Jamie Oliver is fat]

The trouble is, this thing will have more issues than an iPad, because it's far more complex

If Microsoft attempted a cut down, Windows Phone type OS for these devices, they would probably get far better reliability, but it wouldn't be sufficiently more functional than an iPad for anyone to want one

Windows is a large and complex platform, and I assume he was running a beta version of it there, I don't think 8 is RTM yet

One of the biggest worries is the way this all feels a bit rushed. Golden rule with Microsoft is to avoid their first attempt at anything, wait instead for the next version

[Replies From View]

One of the biggest worries is the way this all feels a bit rushed. Golden rule with Microsoft is to avoid their first attempt at anything, wait instead for the next version

I have this rule with Apple though too, to be fair.  And indeed pretty much all other companies.

[Jamie Oliver is fat]

Decent Paul Thurrot article with a hint as to why the demo guy had so much trouble with the thing

Microsoft's curiously timed and orchestrated launch of its upcoming Surface tablet this week has set the tech blogosphere on fire, revealing an amazing upswell of interest in a Microsoft-branded device. But the Surface announcement raises as many question as it answers. And while it's pretty clear that Apple and its iPad are the target of this product, Microsoft is taking a decidedly non-Apple approach in its design and creation.

Virtually everything about the Surface tablet is bizarre, even its name, which was previously used for a lumbering series of smart tables—yes, tables, not tablets—that have been unceremoniously recast as PixelSense. But what many on-sight reports from the day of the launch didn't care to mention, however, is perhaps the most bizarre bit of all: The Surface tablet doesn't even exist. It's vaporware.

The devices that Microsoft showed off earlier this week weren't real, they were simply prototypes. And anyone claiming to have gotten "hands on" time with a Surface tablet was exaggerating, at best: No one was allowed to touch a working prototype, so those typing videos occurred on dead pieces of hardware without a working screen.

So that raises the first obvious question: Why did Microsoft suddenly rush to announce this device family? It didn't alert the press to Monday's event until the previous Thursday, giving press and bloggers just days to book expensive last minute travel to... Los Angeles? What was that all about?

And why didn't Microsoft reveal pricing for the devices? Is it waiting to see where Google comes in on its expected self-branded tablet? The closest we got to a price was that the higher-end, Intel-based version of the Surface would cost similarly to an Ultrabook. But Ultrabooks run in a wide range, from roughly $600 to $1600, and this tablet needs to trend towards the very low end of that range. The lower end ARM version must undercut the iPad (which costs $500 to $830, depending on model) to be competitive as well.

And will the cost include a keyboard case? If not, how much will those cost? (There are two versions, each presumably in different color choices.)

Why will the Intel version of the Surface ship a whopping 90 days after the launch of Windows 8? Why will only the Windows RT version be made available right away?

Microsoft talks up the cellular broadband capabilities in Windows 8 a lot, but never mentioned if these devices will offer always-connected functionality. Will they include cellular broadband, if only as an option?

It kind of goes on and on, and the more you think you want this device, the more you realize you know almost nothing about it. And that brings me to a final couple of related thoughts: For all of its desire to be just like Apple, Microsoft is nothing like Apple. And Apple would never have introduced such a half-realized product as this. Had Apple announced the Surface, you'd know everything about it, would be able to view the full product specs on its web site, all of the model versions and options, and so on. And you'd be able to buy it, or at least pre-order it, right now.

And that's not the only way in which Microsoft is not Apple. In its mad bid to prevent Apple from completely eroding its core market, Microsoft is curiously not using the Apple playbook at all. It's stealing Google's strategy of slapping its brand on another company's product and offering it in competition to both Apple's iPad and the numerous slates and other computing devices that will be made by its own partners. With the Surface, Microsoft has decided to compete with everyone, even its friends.

Now, to be fair, Microsoft hardly had any choice, and as I've noted in the past, the software giant's partners are both its strongest asset and its biggest curse. But while we can certainly expect backwards leaning tower PCs and thick laptops from these lumbering hardware makers, it's fair to expect any number of elegant ultrabooks, hybrids, convertibles, all-in-ones, and other innovative computing devices from these companies too. All of them will compete with the Surface.

The Surface tablet looks amazing, but until we know more about it—until it is actually real—I recommend scaling back the excitement a bit. There are just too many questions.

[mobias]

Do MS have an equivalent of Apple's apps store? I think a large part of why the iPad has been such a success (and remember a lot of people didn't think it would be) is that it basically created a whole new computing experience for itself which is still evolving. Its a simpler more streamlined experience which is actually all most people need. From what I've read the Surface seems to be doing something similar but is having more of the functionality of a laptop. Unless its way more efficient in power and performance then why not just buy a laptop instead? I know a similar thing was asked of Apple when the iPad was announced but as it turned out they were doing something really quite different. I guess it'll be interesting to see if MS are too. 

[Still Not George]

Do MS have an equivalent of Apple's apps store? I think a large part of why the iPad has been such a success (and remember a lot of people didn't think it would be) is that it basically created a whole new computing experience for itself which is still evolving. Its a simpler more streamlined experience which is actually all most people need.

This was the same argument used in the 80s - that users (and equally importantly, distributors) want a unified product experience, and therefore proprietary-everything is the way to go. It was bullshit then, and it's bullshit now. The walled garden is Apple's biggest weakness; it's the reason why Android is kicking the iPhone all round the playground right now, and it'll be the reason the iPad dies on its arse.

Unfortunately, I can't really see this half-assed Microsoft effort doing the killing.