Author Topic: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats  (Read 20137 times)

Jamie Oliver is fat

  • Speckled like a leopard
Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #300 on: June 25, 2012, 04:13:42 PM »
The problem with measuring how 'rich' you feel is that the quality of your stuff/lifestyle goes up, which then means you don't have as much money left over as you would if your lifestyle was the same as on a lower salary, therefore you don't feel any richer even though you live in a better house, have a holiday further away, buy nicer food etc.

I agree, but also remember that as your salary goes up, you get to take less of it home, so it requires far greater leaps to have the perceived equivalent increase in living standards.

So the jump from 40k to 60k wouldn't give the same increase in wealth as an increase from 20k to 40k

I think......but then I can't profess to fully understand the tax system. Mine is taken care of for me as I'm PAYE

I've never taken much notice of salaries or tax/insurance paid out, I just look at what I'll be taking home each month

Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #301 on: June 25, 2012, 06:45:39 PM »
Anyone read the Sunday Times? I have been told that in his column yesterday Dominic Lawson said that Jeremy Hardy is a tax evader.

Oops! Wrong Planet

  • What happened to your peace lily?
Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #302 on: June 25, 2012, 10:27:23 PM »
Lawson mentioned that in a conversation with Jeremy Hardy (they appear on the News Quiz together), Hardy gave him advice on how to claim what he pays for newspapers against tax, as well as offsetting his bills for dental treatment.  ("I've asked my dad," Lawson said, "but he hasn't got a clue.")

Dead kate moss

  • Hips. Tits. Lips. Power.
Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #303 on: June 26, 2012, 04:29:46 AM »
I think that's genuinely fine for either of them to claim buying a newspaper (or ten) as a tax-deductible item, considering they are in a radio show called The News Quiz. Is that it?

Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #304 on: June 26, 2012, 04:59:16 AM »
If they were actually being quizzed about the news then they could probably make a claim.

But as all they are doing is reading a script (the 5 or 6 names credited with 'additional material' at the end aren't setting the questions, they've written all the jokes and 'ad libs') then I don't think they should make a claim.

Christ....is that the time?




Oops! Wrong Planet

  • What happened to your peace lily?
Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #305 on: June 26, 2012, 06:53:08 AM »
I think that's genuinely fine for either of them to claim buying a newspaper (or ten) as a tax-deductible item, considering they are in a radio show called The News Quiz. Is that it?

That's all I know, haven't seen it.  I wouldn't have thought Lawson is having a go at Hardy, just mentioning it in the wider context of an article on Carr and tax.

Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #306 on: June 26, 2012, 04:13:07 PM »
If they were actually being quizzed about the news then they could probably make a claim.

But as all they are doing is reading a script (the 5 or 6 names credited with 'additional material' at the end aren't setting the questions, they've written all the jokes and 'ad libs') then I don't think they should make a claim.

Christ....is that the time?

The writers write Sandi Tokvig's script, and the "additional material" will be jokes for her to say; I think it's pretty clear the contestants come up with their own material, albeit a good deal less of it ad-libbed than written in anticipation of particular stories coming up.

momatt

  • PAPERCLIPS!
    • instagram.com/m0matt
Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #307 on: June 26, 2012, 04:52:05 PM »
And yet derails things less than Micky Flanagan's turgid gear-crunching attempts at humour.

So true, he's just completely inept as a comedian (or any other type of human, probably).  Why does he have to mention being from East London every sentence?  It's hardly a rare and special thing.

I find the whole situation pretty irritating.  Carr hasn't done anything wrong (legally).  Wouldn't most people avoid paying tax if they could?  There are much bigger problems.

Great episode I thought.  Seeing Carr being so serious is really eery!

Whoever keeps booking Spence wants to fuck right off.  He's just so happy in his utter ignorance.

Also, yeah this:
Sean Lock's "Good evening your majesty, you tax-dodging bitch" was top drawer.

Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #308 on: June 26, 2012, 06:52:53 PM »
Quote
Wouldn't most people avoid paying tax if they could?

Well most people that can do don't they? But this game of semantics doesn't have to end there.

Wouldn't most people moan about someone else not paying tax when they had to?
Wouldn't most people steal if they could get away with?

Its not illegal to spray your guts all over the toilets at work and then leave without flushing but you ain't going to win any friends by holding up your un-incited dirty protest as a beacon of liberty.

If he wants to pay 1% then he can fucking hover everywhere he goes, those roads don't pay for themselves....

Dead kate moss

  • Hips. Tits. Lips. Power.
Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #309 on: June 26, 2012, 07:02:48 PM »
There's 'most people' and there's people earning three million a year. And especially if the millionaire is a satirist who has specifically targeted tax avoiders he's a hypocrite too. There's a couple of differences to be going on with when appealing to the 'wouldn't most people?' argument.

greencalx

  • Never knowingly knowledgeable
Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #310 on: June 26, 2012, 08:07:55 PM »
Yes it's interesting how on this thread, morality and legality are considered synonymous, whereas on the monthly "It's perfectly acceptable to steal music" threads, they somehow aren't.

Jemble Fred

  • ... And I ain't ashamed.
    • 100% BALLS
Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #311 on: June 26, 2012, 08:10:30 PM »
Not that interesting, seeing as the illegal act vaguely wrongs musicians and rock stars, and the legal act wrongs everyone here who does pay their tax.

And as for whoever had a go at recreational drug users earlier on this thread, comparing them to tax-avoiders... fucking please.

HappyTree

  • Diz <3
Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #312 on: June 27, 2012, 06:40:53 AM »
Do these comments about "most people" include the person making them? I do wonder at generalisations that involve most people avoiding tax, stealing and basically acting like the entire universe revolves around them with no consequences or awareness that other people exist around them and will be affected.

Is this genuine egocentrism or just an argumentative stance? Or an evaluation of "most other people but not me" ?

I usually find myself feeling like an alien out of step with "most people" in those cases. Whilst not absolute or perfect in my moral quests, I would not just steal if I could (and I could, in fact, as it is fairly easy) or go through convoluted hoops to avoid paying tax. Why would I do that? I want children to have schools and the roads to be maintained, etc. I want to live in a nice society both for altruistic and selfish reasons. If they only be selfish, surely it's better to live in a well maintained society with other people who are also happy? With other people being educated into and then performing jobs that make everything better for everyone?

There is no such thing as a single person being happy in complete isolation with no connections to anyone or anything else. I just can't understand this reductio ad immoralitum argument that gets used to talk about what "most people" would do. If you'd act selfishly yourself then just say that. Then think about why and how it's not even intelligent from a selfish point of view.

Mark Steels Stockbroker

  • Lost in the former West
Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #313 on: June 27, 2012, 06:42:26 AM »
Yes it's interesting how on this thread, morality and legality are considered synonymous, whereas on the monthly "It's perfectly acceptable to steal music" threads, they somehow aren't.

The analogy fails because most modern music was plagiarised to start with.

Dead kate moss

  • Hips. Tits. Lips. Power.
Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #314 on: June 27, 2012, 06:54:31 AM »
Do these comments about "most people" include the person making them? I do wonder at generalisations that involve most people avoiding tax, stealing and basically acting like the entire universe revolves around them with no consequences or awareness that other people exist around them and will be affected.

Is this genuine egocentrism or just an argumentative stance? Or an evaluation of "most other people but not me" ?

I usually find myself feeling like an alien out of step with "most people" in those cases. Whilst not absolute or perfect in my moral quests, I would not just steal if I could (and I could, in fact, as it is fairly easy) or go through convoluted hoops to avoid paying tax. Why would I do that? I want children to have schools and the roads to be maintained, etc. I want to live in a nice society both for altruistic and selfish reasons. If they only be selfish, surely it's better to live in a well maintained society with other people who are also happy? With other people being educated into and then performing jobs that make everything better for everyone?

Oh who do you think you're kidding with your goody-two-shoes act? You'd rob an old lady's pension book just like the rest of us if you knew you'd get away with it

Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #315 on: June 27, 2012, 07:49:24 AM »
You'd rob an old lady's pension book just like the rest of us if you knew you'd get away with it....

A potential granny mugger who wants to pay as much tax as possible.

You're a complicated guy!

momatt

  • PAPERCLIPS!
    • instagram.com/m0matt
Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #316 on: June 27, 2012, 09:09:40 AM »
Do these comments about "most people" include the person making them?

Yes.  In a heart-beat.

Because perhaps I am a selfish, solipsist bastard.
I don't mind paying tax as such, but I think it'd be nice to have more say into where it goes.  Yes I know this system wouldn't work at all, just thinking out loud.

The analogy fails because most modern music was plagiarised to start with.
Well that's just silly.  It also fails because only one of them is actually illegal.

Dead kate moss

  • Hips. Tits. Lips. Power.
Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #317 on: June 27, 2012, 09:17:18 AM »
I think it'd be nice to have more say into where it goes.

Agree. Probably couldn't trust the public to make all the best decisions, but on balance I think it's only fair. Not just have the choice of two (and a half?) parties who will basically spend the money/cut funds on the same things, more so today than ever. For a start I think most 'wars' ie occupations would find themselves hard to finance if the public had more control of where their taxes went. Funny how no party has ever offered anything like this as a policy, even though I'm sure it would be a vote winner. They'd rather not be in power for a while than give up sharing it between themselves.

HappyTree

  • Diz <3
Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #318 on: June 27, 2012, 10:08:54 AM »
How tax is spent is another issue and I agree. In fact, in principle I want to participate in paying for a good society for everyone. But as a protest and use of force on the corrupt government I would withhold all my tax. That's quite different from generally trying to get away with it.

I wonder how I might refuse to pay tax in Estonia. They take it automatically and then snoop in your bank to check all your incomings.

momatt

  • PAPERCLIPS!
    • instagram.com/m0matt
Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #319 on: June 27, 2012, 12:43:51 PM »


I wonder how I might refuse to pay tax in Estonia. They take it automatically and then snoop in your bank to check all your incomings.

That sounds pretty similar to England.

Big thumbs up to you and Dead Kate Moss anyway, glad you catch my drift.  I naturally would prefer to receive my entire wage, but wouldn't mind half as much if the tax was going to things I like.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 02:56:06 PM by momatt »

greencalx

  • Never knowingly knowledgeable
Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #320 on: June 27, 2012, 01:53:48 PM »
The analogy fails because most modern music was plagiarised to start with.

Point = missed. (You too, Jemble).

People seem to be equating morality with legality, or not, as it suits their prejudices. To avoid arguing two contrary stances simultaneously, one has to realise that morality and legality are two completely separate things. Anyone arguing that large-scale tax avoidance is OK because it is legal, or that stealing music is not OK because it is illegal, needs to be punched in the face for ignoring a major part of the issue.

I thought this was kind of obvious.

Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #321 on: June 27, 2012, 02:14:23 PM »
^ add the 'legalize drugs' debate to that list.

Dead kate moss

  • Hips. Tits. Lips. Power.
Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #322 on: June 27, 2012, 02:56:14 PM »
^ Also 'women's issues/feminism' (often) - one minute when the law doesn't suit them, the glorious history of the suffragettes is brought up, campaigns to change laws are ever on-going... yet if it's a man complaining about access or alimony, suddenly it's 'the law's the law.'



rudi

  • I'm not interested
Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #323 on: June 27, 2012, 03:09:01 PM »
I don't recognise that last example. Why is it such a hobby horse of yours DKM?

Dead kate moss

  • Hips. Tits. Lips. Power.
Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #324 on: June 27, 2012, 03:14:46 PM »
Sigh. How predictable. Sorry you don't recognise that last example, but I've come across it loads and I thought it fitted the discussion of people choosing when to appeal to morality and when to appeal to legality. I don't think I exactly crow-barred it in there.

But think of me as a misogynist if you like, call bringing up something I possibly mention in about 1% of my posts my 'hobby-horse', whatever, I couldn't give a shit anymore.

rudi

  • I'm not interested
Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #325 on: June 27, 2012, 05:03:06 PM »
That's a tad disingenuous; it's what you're mostly remembered for in this parish, after all. Just thought I'd ask is all as, and I see you disagree, it does seem to be rather crowbarred in to me.

Dead kate moss

  • Hips. Tits. Lips. Power.
Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #326 on: June 27, 2012, 05:28:46 PM »
Quote
That's a tad disingenuous; it's what you're mostly remembered for in this parish, after all. Just thought I'd ask is all as, and I see you disagree, it does seem to be rather crowbarred in to me.

As I said, believe what you want. I've admitted I was a bit more 'trollish' when I joined and before I flounced off, and part of that was occasionally raising the potentially flammable issue of discussing women or feminism in a critical manner. So to call it a hobby-horse back then.... I'll admit I pushed the issue sometimes for my own reasons, some due to what I think are fair points, some to test a crowd that largely allowed certain material for humour and was mostly against others... and sometimes a joke became conflated with those 'fair points.' So I guess i have myself to blame for playing with fire to an extent there.

(Though I was careful to note that my posts that ever mentioned anything near that subject were about 2% of my entire post output. You can check if you really care.)

Anyway, since returning I've dropped any 'attitude' or desire to get into needless arguments, and basically been myself. I'm not sure if I've said anything derogatory about women as a group (who I have no problem with, I prefer them to men in general - though I do remember making a joke about them not being able to catch) or feminism (which I have certain issues with as it has changed over the last 20 years) since returning. And now I make one point about feminism/women's groups, on the topic being discussed, and predictably, to me, immediately triggers certain posters to think 'Aha, there he is revealing his true colours!' Yet if I never say anything negative about modern feminism those same people will probably think 'I see he's keeping his true colours well hidden, the crafty swine...' so I can't win and I don't care.

Dead kate moss

  • Hips. Tits. Lips. Power.
Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #327 on: June 27, 2012, 05:41:34 PM »
so I can't win and I don't care.

Unless of course, I avoid mentioning women or feminism in a negative manner - which today's comment aside, I will probably manage to do... I have definitely maxed out my credit on that subject a long time ago, and also I've lost most of my interest in 'gender issues' too. I'm more into class warfare these days.

Mark Steels Stockbroker

  • Lost in the former West
Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #328 on: June 28, 2012, 06:36:48 AM »
People seem to be equating morality with legality

No I wasn't. From a moral perspective, if some chancer has plagiarised other's work and passed it off as their own then then have done nothing honestly creative and have no claims on it. So there is no moral problem in downloading without paying for the works of the most turgid, unoriginal modern groups, it's no different to listening to a busker play badly and not putting money in.

Mark Steels Stockbroker

  • Lost in the former West
Re: Jimmy Carr and his tax buggery on 8 Out Of 10 Cats
« Reply #329 on: June 28, 2012, 06:46:20 AM »
one has to realise that morality and legality are two completely separate things.

If someone held a relativist view, that there is nothing to morality over and above the actual standards that exist in a specific society, then they are going to think that the 2 concepts practically overlap, and have trouble seeing it differently. Since most of the verbwhores do seem to hold something like that view (so far as the topic ever comes up - you could take your observations as evidence that they do), then you're going to need to give them an argument against moral relativism first, in order to get your point across.

I think you're right that morality and legality are different things, but you're not going to have much luck just saying that, as the prevailing meta-ethics round here naturally inclines to treat them as equivalent.