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Grimmest documentaries you've seen

Started by Hank Venture, July 08, 2012, 03:17:55 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Cuellar

I had to bail on the documentary when they basically started showing you the abuse images/videos but in the bits I did see he seemed convinced that the kids were totally fine with it.

I know he was 'concern trolling' but when he claimed at the beginning that seeing the police park their van outside his house and bash down his door was the real child abuse (because kids seeing that might get scared), whereas he'd never abused a child. I'm sure he believes that. I was quite impressed by the restraint of the TV crew tbh.

Retinend

#841
The grimmness of it - aside form the imagery it dares to show - might be because this type of person will exist forever, and there is very little that can be done to prevent it happening in most cases.

Edit- another thing that makes it especially grim is that most documentaries like this end on the note of a successful conviction, but in the final part of this one  they show you a brand new case which is exactly as horrible as the one just concluded (and disappointingly concluded with a sentence of 7 years for Levine). I appreciated just how well it was edited and structured, this time around.

imitationleather

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OPC8guZ9yA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EisFPsUovtE

Here's the similar Police Protecting Children. Another three hours of fun for the lads.

It's so similar it has the same narrator!

Retinend

Oh this is the one that begins with Pete Townshend being arrested. You've actually got me on a Hunt For Britain's Pedophiles/Police Protecting Children double bill of grimmness. nah fuck this

But about Townshend. He's a pedo, right? I just don't believe that anyone would need to do research on kiddie porn sites in order to understand what sort of material it is.

imitationleather

Quote from: Retinend on May 06, 2021, 09:08:25 PM
But about Townshend. He's a pedo, right? I just don't believe that anyone would need to do research on kiddie porn sites in order to understand what sort of material it is.

It's really difficult to say. I don't know why someone who isn't a paedo would willingly pay to view that kind of material, it's true.

I know he said he was abused himself, but you have to bear in mind that is a defence that paedophiles very frequently use to explain their actions.

When the book was eventually released wasn't it nowhere near to being the expose of online child abuse he was making out?

Probably one of those situations where we won't find out the truth until after he's dead.

Retinend

Looking into it, the mitigating factors are that a police team searched his home, office and computers, and no child porn was found in/on them. He also wrote this article the year before his arrest, in which he does come across as someone enraged enough about child porn sites enough to try to investigate it himself.

He was abused himself as a child, and his friend had recently committed suicide over her abuse, so it's understandable he would be so absorbed by the topic that he thought that, by giving the illegal site his credit card, he would be able to read what they were saying behind the paywall and use quotes for this or another blog entry. It is something I can relate to, having once considered paying a paywall fee to satisfy my curiosity about an alt right forum.

QuoteHis intent in paying for access to the site, Townshend said in a 2012 interview, was to expose the financial chain that connects British banks with Russian orphanages.

"It's white-knight syndrome: You want to be the one that's seen to be helping," he said. "I had experienced something creepy as a child, so you imagine, what if I was a girl of nine or 10 and my uncle had raped me every week? I felt I had an understanding, and I could help."

The entire transaction, which Townshend said he cancelled immediately, had cost him £7 – and then so much more.
Read More: When Pete Townshend Was Arrested on Child Porn Charges | https://ultimateclassicrock.com/pete-townshend-child-porn-arrest/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral

BlodwynPig

Why didn't he just run it past the police first.


"look guys, I know you're corrupt, but at least we share a similar loathing of paedos...deputise me and let me do my stuff, when I have enough evidence, I'll do a powerpoint, yeh?"

Retinend

#847
2003 BBC documentary "The Crash Of An Internet Porn King"
Series which deals with the stateside equivalent of Operation Ore, "Operation Landslide" - regarding the specific Texas-based child porn portal that Townshend was caught accessing.

Part 1: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2jjlr
Part 2: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2jkva
Part 3: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2jlbp
Part 4: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2jlin

edit: wow, the guy behind this is adamant to the very end that he had "done nothing wrong" according to his libertarian principles (just like the founder of the Silk Road, Ross Ulbricht was/is), and determined to make a circus out of the courtroom: even using as his defense strategy the notion that the child porn was "computer generated"... this in the year 2000.

Brundle-Fly

Quote from: BlodwynPig on May 07, 2021, 08:29:34 AM
Why didn't he just run it past the police first.


"look guys, I know you're corrupt, but at least we share a similar loathing of paedos...deputise me and let me do my stuff, when I have enough evidence, I'll do a powerpoint, yeh?"

He did, apparently.

peanutbutter

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on May 06, 2021, 02:36:09 PM
only the private parts hidden by a black bar
my memory of it is that they had a massive chunk of the video covered by a black bar, like well over half of the screen, but there was enough on the edges to infer what was happening on the video?

It was certainly impactful and sent a shiver down my spine, but, if they way I'm remembering it is correct, it was about as much as they could cover without just not showing any at all (and I definitely think it's arguable that it doesn't add a lot that footage of watching the police watching it wouldn't have)

El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: peanutbutter on May 15, 2021, 01:50:17 PM
my memory of it is that they had a massive chunk of the video covered by a black bar, like well over half of the screen, but there was enough on the edges to infer what was happening on the video?


Looking at it again (ugh) it's about a quarter or fifth of the screen. Basically a black box which covers the private and closely surrounding area. I mean, it leaves very little to the imagination and is definitely a lot more than I've ever seen (or ever want to see) of this kind of material. But at the same time, despite like everyone having read about these kinds of things in the news, I was still stunned to actually see it. So it is possibly justifiable to show for that aspect.

El Unicornio, mang

African Apocalypse, about the (possibly) real life inspiration for Heart of Darkness's Colonel Kurtz, is about as grim as they come and now on iPlayer.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000wgw9/arena-african-apocalypse

Fambo Number Mive

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on May 06, 2021, 02:36:09 PM
Incidentally, Levine's mate Keith Romig has a load of highly-rated books about Leytonstone and Walthamstow on amazon so is probably doing alright for himself.

I presume the people who rate them highly don't know about his past? As a former resident of Walthamstow, I would never buy a book about the place from a scumbag like Romig.

El Unicornio, mang

Maybe also nonces buying them to indirectly fund his lifestyle.

Retinend

At the risk of seeming unhealthily obsessed[nb]I was never abused myself, so I can't simply explain why it's such a recurring theme in my viewing habits[/nb], here's yet another pedophilia documentary. In contrast to the aforementioned British documentaries, it's a more level-headed and progressive piece of work than any such documentary I've seen on the topic: I think it's actually increased my understanding of the subject, rather than merely leaving me feeling helpless and scared.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5DzzXZcQtc&t
Incest: A Family Tragedy
2,092,910 views Oct 30, 2019


From the off, the title gets something right that most of these documentaries get implicitly wrong: "pedophilia" is, typically, indivisible from "incest" as a phenomenon. Also, it is typically a family tragedy: it's cast down the generations from victim to victim.

The documentary is shockingly frank, but necessarily so. It points out the tragic state of affairs that no son or daughter wants to be the cause of their family breaking irrevocably apart, even if that means that staying quiet and enduring years more abuse than would be necessary. And therefore, avoiding the nuclear option and accepting the abuse as "normal", the victim of incest typically has a high probability of internalizing the abuse as a sexuality and being the one to carry it into the next generation.

The doc makes the prescription that a progressive policy would mean a two-pronged approach of a). changing the outreach messaging from "stranger danger!" to something along the lines of "never keep it a secret, or everything will get worse - if you tell, then everything will get better", and b). making the societal choice to keep families where incest took place together, whenever possible, so that the cycle of abuse can be broken via confrontation and therapy. Of course, this is inherently an approach that leaves open the risk of re-offending. You are essentially putting trust in the pedophile, appealing to his morality, to recognise that he has compassion for his child that overrides his sexual urges. And on the other hand, you are relying on children to trust the formal authorities (in speaking out) over the word of their father and groomer (who warns them that this would destroy the family).

Grim! But highly recommended.

imitationleather


Watched this last night on Now TV. I'm sure it's on the #torrents though.

Absolutely fucking brutal thing, this is. Unlike owt I've ever seen before. It follows three drug addicts over the course of 36 years with predictably hilarious results.

I give it 5 Lifetime Addiction Struggles out of 5!

Sonny_Jim

Decided to play Euro Truck Simulator 2 whilst watching The Grimm Paedo doc, takes the edge off a bit as I'm mostly listening.  Grimmest part for me so far is the peado being charged and all he wants to talk about is FGM.  Excellent moment when one of the officers present gets to refute first hand the paedos claim of 'there hasn't been a prosecution in 15 years'.


Retinend

Quote from: imitationleather on April 09, 2022, 09:28:29 AM

Watched this last night on Now TV. I'm sure it's on the #torrents though.

Absolutely fucking brutal thing, this is. Unlike owt I've ever seen before. It follows three drug addicts over the course of 36 years with predictably hilarious results.

I give it 5 Lifetime Addiction Struggles out of 5!

The approach is very hands off. Shows you everything, and tells you nothing.

Thanks for the recomendation, imitationleather! That was really good!

badaids

Quote from: imitationleather on April 09, 2022, 09:28:29 AM

Watched this last night on Now TV. I'm sure it's on the #torrents though.

Absolutely fucking brutal thing, this is. Unlike owt I've ever seen before. It follows three drug addicts over the course of 36 years with predictably hilarious results.

I give it 5 Lifetime Addiction Struggles out of 5!

Thanks for the rec.  Relentlessly heartbreaking, harrowing and bleak.  But good. 

imitationleather

Pleased to see a few people enjoyed it! It's a real cut above the usual shite I watch.

Twit 2

Quote from: Sonny_Jim on April 09, 2022, 02:19:04 PMDecided to play Euro Truck Simulator 2 whilst watching The Grimm Paedo doc, takes the edge off a bit as I'm mostly listening.  Grimmest part for me so far is the peado being charged and all he wants to talk about is FGM.  Excellent moment when one of the officers present gets to refute first hand the paedos claim of 'there hasn't been a prosecution in 15 years'.

What about the Paedo doc, though, any comments on that?

Sonny_Jim


Cottonon

Quote from: imitationleather on April 09, 2022, 09:28:29 AM

Watched this last night on Now TV. I'm sure it's on the #torrents though.

Absolutely fucking brutal thing, this is. Unlike owt I've ever seen before. It follows three drug addicts over the course of 36 years with predictably hilarious results.

I give it 5 Lifetime Addiction Struggles out of 5!

Another thanks here. That was a tough but compelling watch. Up there with Reindeerspotting and Dope Sick Love for the ol' unflinching camera eye.

Ant Farm Keyboard

I saw last week a Korean documentary called Logbook.

It's about the sinking of the ferry Sewol in 2014. 304 people died, including 250 teenagers. It focuses on the memories of the divers who explored the wreck during several months to recover the missing bodies, and the various traumas they still suffer.

phes

I've been looking for this film periodically for about 20 years and seems it appeared from archives about 5 years back

The Secret Hospital - Rampton: The Big House

Two-parter from 1979 talking to ex patients and staff from Rampton and then following a group of patients in rehab. Trigger warning for cruelty, violence and suicide

https://inclusivearchive.org/story/6/rampton-the-big-house-tv-documentary-1979/#!/135

Scroll down for part two


Captain Crunch

Here's one about the suicides in Bridgend:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzfHqJg_br4

If you need a little rinse after that here's a drive round the town with bonus groovy oboe soundtrack:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzWypeF2kV0

And this is an odd one, Minding the Gap: An American Skateboarding Story.  It looks like a fairly quiet little film about skating but it turns into a very bleak but excellent exploration of domestic violence:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p07cttsd/minding-the-gap-an-american-skateboarding-story


JaDanketies

Watched the first half of Life of Crime in two goes piecemeal but watched the second half in one go last night and it was pretty fucking devastating ngl, still making me cry when I think about it

Retinend

This is a very powerful film that I think readers of this thread would be interested in:



It's called My Talk with Florence, made in 2015

Can be watched (albeit between many adverts) here: https://watch.plex.tv/movie/my-talk-with-florence?autoplay=1&utm_content=630e8489e6d5622e3e4ead83&utm_medium=deeplink&utm_source=google-catalog

In short, the doc is about the cult leader, pedophile and painter, Otto Muehl and the eponymous Florence's experiences being indoctrinated into his sex-obsessed cult.

He is a topic that is hardly covered much in English (even the English wikipedia page isn't great), so I'll summarize the whole story of Muehl:

Otto Muehl was a founding member of the school of "Wiener Aktionismus", which was an 1960s art movement that used human bodies as a medium for their art. For example, imagine naked male and female bodies writhing in layer after layer of paint, poured onto them by the grinning artist - accompanied by intellectual-sounding statements intellectualizing the "action" (i.e. piece of performance art); implying that the final frontier of Art was the "art" of life itself - or reducing the body to a medium for the artist to manipulate. It was a mysterious and seductive movement that had a decidedly left-wing-radical underpinning. Eventually his scene became a full-on commune, living separately from society, and according to its (Muehl's) own rules.

When you found yourself in the orbit of Otto Muehl's disciples at parties in Vienna in the 1970s and 80s, you were asked if you were yourself willing to become a piece of the living art project that the genius Muehl was creating. If you agreed, and were deemed a proper fit for the group, you were initiated into the sex cult. The notion of the glorification of promiscuous sex was taken from the hippies and given a Germanic twist: the promiscuity would follow strict rules - denying sex to anyone requesting it was VERBOTEN. Sex with the same partner more than once per "round" was deemed a display of bourgeois "love". Each member had to fuck per a spreadsheet, 3 timers per day, without fail.

Many many children were born into the group. These children are today in their 30s and 40s. No child had a father or mother, according to the ideology of the group, which followed the writings of Wilhelm Reich (of Kate-Bush-Cloudbusting fame). This meant that fathers and mothers were deliberately separated from their children upon childbirth - unless the children could be used by Otto Muehl to blackmail their parents into staying in the group. Otto Muehl brainwashed the female members of the group into desiring sex with him, as the patriarch and alpha-male of the commune. His own sexual desires turned towards pedophilia, as happens with these sorts of sex-obsessed cult leaders. This was a recipe for an unthinkably deep inter-generational trauma that is only slowly coming to light (a new film came out this year based on the POV of the children).

The group only dissolved in the 90s, when ex-members pushed for prosecution, and Muehl, pleading guilty, was sentenced to 7 years jail.




The screenshotted subtitle regards the wife of cult leader and pedophile Otto Muehl, who was ordered by him to "initiate" the young boys in the ways of sex, while he had his way with the young girls. The subject of the doc, the eponymous Florence, had run away from an abusive home with her infant children and found herself welcomed by the cult. Eventually, she had to face the fact that she had delivered herself from her sexually abusive father and grandfather only to deliver her own children to a monster even more depraved. She is a very brave woman, and she expresses herself in an adoptive tongue with total openness - often lapsing into memory and taking on the voices of the abusers and their enablers. It's 2 hours of pure interview footage, but it is totally gripping and because of the minimalism, totally unique.

More information here:
https://www.austrianfilms.com/film/my_talk_with_florence