Movies With Dodgy Moral Messages

[Dead kate moss]

Or something like that. I mentioned in the Bridges Of Madison County thread how it's a bit unpleasant how a cheaty-pants bored housewife tells her children via her diaries that she had this affair, only stayed with their nice-but-boring dad out of loyalty and oh can she have her ashes scattered next to the guy she had the awesome sex with over that four day period please? Essentially, the movie doesn't really give us any other way of looking at it than that it was all so romantic, etc, and is thus deemed by me Morally Dodgy.

Now not all movies should be perfect moral lessons, that would be quite literally worse than anything imaginable. But I also noted about Goodfellas and gangster movies in general recently, that ultimately these men are scum. Possibly this has been noticed before. Exciting protagonists, but it could be seen as dubious how often we are led to find them sympathetic... something I think The Sopranos managed to walk the tightrope on, it reminded us these likable guys were monsters often enough. Not sure Scorsese always manages that. Scarface is probably uncritically liked by too many idiots too, not sure if it's Morally Dodgy though as I haven't seen it for ages. Ultimately he ends up dead, and also comes across as an idiot a lot, as I recall.

There must be loads more. But no jokey ones, this thread is SERIOUS.

[Jemble Fred]

While I've been irked by some of the insane misogyny on this forum of late, I remember seeing THIS YEAR'S LOVE at the cinema when it came out, and my jaw dropping at the misandry of it all. As I recall, it was about three men and three women – by the very end all three women have found their own happy ending, but only one bloke does so, while the other two are left to horrible fates – going mad, becoming alcoholic etc. I was impressionably young at the time, and it filled me with despair for my entire gender.

I bet this is worse though: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1190617/

[EOLAN]

Sat through "PS I Love You" with the wife (fiancée at the time) for my sins.

The moral message seemed to be along the lines if you die young, make sure that you delay your widow's grieving process by engaging her in a puzzle type game where she has to recount all your experiences together and thus is unable to move on with her own life.
   

[NoSleep]

The Birth Of A Nation is the king of films with dodgy moral messages.





The KKK are its heroes and it caused a huge resurgence of interest and consequently in membership of the Klan.

[Jemble Fred]

Kelsey Grammar's favourite film, there.

[NoSleep]

Turns out he's a cunt, even without this further evidence.

[gatchamandave]

Grease -wanna be popular? Be a slut.

[Dead kate moss]

Grease - also Bullies Are Cool.

[Famous Mortimer]

Being John Malkovich - be sort of a crappy husband? Endure an entire lifetime of the most unimaginable torment!

[Tiny Poster]

But I also noted about Goodfellas and gangster movies in general recently, that ultimately these men are scum. Possibly this has been noticed before. Exciting protagonists, but it could be seen as dubious how often we are led to find them sympathetic... something I think The Sopranos managed to walk the tightrope on, it reminded us these likable guys were monsters often enough. Not sure Scorsese always manages that.

All of Scorsese's Gangster stuff says "yes, this is a glamorous lifestyle that many may envy and aspire to, but these people are empty and reprehensible" - I don't see much ambiguity about it. It's often the audience which overlooks the downside(s) and lionises the characters; David Chase and the rest of the team on The Sopranos actively worked against this, showing less and less traditional mob action and ramping up the depiction of Tony and co (including Carmela, Meadow and AJ) as cancerous parasites, feeding off and destroying all that they come into contact with.

[Tiny Poster]

Being John Malkovich - be sort of a crappy husband? Endure an entire lifetime of the most unimaginable torment!

I think we've discussed this before - it's meant to be extreme, in the vein of The Brothers Grimm. Plus, he wasn't just a crappy husband - he took over another person's life, and would have done so forever if he could have. Hubris!

[El Unicornio, mang]

Now not all movies should be perfect moral lessons, that would be quite literally worse than anything imaginable. But I also noted about Goodfellas and gangster movies in general recently, that ultimately these men are scum. Possibly this has been noticed before. Exciting protagonists, but it could be seen as dubious how often we are led to find them sympathetic... something I think The Sopranos managed to walk the tightrope on, it reminded us these likable guys were monsters often enough. Not sure Scorsese always manages that. Scarface is probably uncritically liked by too many idiots too, not sure if it's Morally Dodgy though as I haven't seen it for ages. Ultimately he ends up dead, and also comes across as an idiot a lot, as I recall.

I don't think that is Scorsese's fault really, it's just that people generally do have an attraction to those types of people. I think they can get away with being liked as they generally only kill other mobsters, they're not the same kind of bad guys who gun down innocent people or whatever. Obviously a slow-mo shot of De Niro smoking a cig while some cool 70s music plays is going to glamorize them somewhat, but at the same time I think it's necessary to show why people are attracted to the lifestyle. In the end he shows enough of the bad stuff for anyone with half a brain to figure out that the glamour is short-lived.

[Dead kate moss]

I'd say that many gangster movies make you forget that the everyday evil they do is not just fighting with their equally bad rivals, but extorting money out of innocent hard-working businesses, with the defence often thrown in that they were like the police for Italians who the police wouldn't help, or some rubbish. A couple have the gangsters shown as somehow noble because they won't go into drug dealing, like breaking the legs of someone behind on their protection money was ok.

The Long Good Friday, the message is that a good old honest east end cockney gangster can't compete with the religiously driven IRA? I love the movie, but it's not really that simple and in real life, a shit on both their houses.

[Jemble Fred]

Every horror film where the villain is beaten by the Bible/religious intervention.

[Petey Pate]

"Give the smoker enough rope and he'll retain his habit".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9KrAyXdmoA

[Dead kate moss]

Probably any 'cowboys and indians' movie where the indians Native Americans are the bad guys, right?

[Tiny Poster]

"Give the smoker enough rope and he'll retain his habit".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9KrAyXdmoA

"Smoking makes even Goofy look cool"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLQO0GSo5Qs

[El Unicornio, mang]

As far as gangster films go, and it's not one of my favourite films, but I think Donnie Brasco does a good job of showing the mob how it really is. There's nothing glamorous in it at all really, none of the stylistic flourishes of Coppolla or Scorsese, just a lot of sour-faced old greaseballs in bad 70s clothes scrabbling for their piece of the pie.

[Ignatius_S]

I'd say that many gangster movies make you forget that the everyday evil they do...

I think you need to qualify that with some examples.

[Dead kate moss]

I think you need to qualify that with some examples.

Maybe I should but I'd have to watch loads and I don't have them all on DVD and I can't always remember... my recollection, flawed as it may be, is that The Sopranos, to counter the example, shows the protagonists definitely fucking up people's lives, killing innocent people. While in say Goodfellas, Henry Hill not only is never seen doing anything too evil to a non-gangster (as I recall) he says how the people they robbed were mostly in on it and nobody really lost out. I can't really prove the movies make anyone forget anything, yes, you can watch them and always realise they are scumbags, of course. But some also glamourize it more than others, as El Unicornio mentioned, in Donnie Brasco they just seem like stupid horrible thugs, in Godfather they are like the Ubermensch.

[Blumf]

Paris, Texas: The film just dumps on the brother and his wife. For years they look after his kid, building a family, then it's just whatever, taking the kid to his wank booth mum and forget all about you guys.

Not sure what the message is supposed to be there; damaged actual parents are better than loving, stable family, adoptive parents?

Still like the film though, just that bit grates.

[Crabwalk]

The Lion King is pretty abhorrent when you think about it.

It's rabidly pro-monarchist, fascistic in it's admiration of the master-species, has utter contempt for the lowly urban strugglers (hyenas), and tells us to beware of gay uncles because they're undoubtedly trying to fuck you.

[Dead kate moss]

Porkies, Animal House, a million frat comedies - spying on women undressing is just a bit of naughty fun. God I wish it was seen that way but I can assure you that Highbury Crown Court was not of the same opinion.

[spock rogers]

Every Nick Love film.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

The film Harry Brown tells us that it's morally acceptable for an old man to assault and kill teenagers, just as long as the latter are drug-dealers and muggers.

[El Unicornio, mang]

I wouldn't say the people he kills are just drug dealers/muggers. They're killers/rapists themselves, and nasty ones at that.

[Petey Pate]

The Lion King is pretty abhorrent when you think about it.

It's rabidly pro-monarchist, fascistic in it's admiration of the master-species, has utter contempt for the lowly urban strugglers (hyenas), and tells us to beware of gay uncles because they're undoubtedly trying to fuck you.

It also features that notorious pro-apathy anthem "Hakuna Mattatta".  And how does Simba's defeat of Scar manage to reverse the entire ecosystem of the African savannah?  Is it implying that fascist monarchs are the best leaders in times of environmental crisis?

A repugnant movie all round.

[Tiny Poster]

The film Harry Brown tells us that it's morally acceptable for an old man to assault and kill teenagers, just as long as the latter are drug-dealers and muggers.

I've not seen it myself, but isn't it supposed to be a Western, but on a British council estate?

[spock rogers]

The film Harry Brown tells us that it's morally acceptable for an old man to assault and kill teenagers, just as long as the latter are drug-dealers and muggers.

This also applies to that Clint Eastwood film, Gran Turismo, which features old man Clint beating yobbos to death with a Playstation. Or something.

[Dead kate moss]

I love The Warriors, and it's set in a clearly stylized universe and based on some Greek legend, but they are a gang right? Do they just hang around in their cute outfits up at Coney Island, do they help people, or do they do like bad stuff sometimes?