Man of Steel (2013)

[Nik Drou]

Probably a good time to start a new thread about the upcoming Superman reboot, directed by Zack Snyder and produced by Christopher Nolan, as the teaser trailers have just been made available online.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll39CAovGrg&hd=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-toIu5JscE

My first thought is that it looks rather un-Zack Snyder-like so far (and that's a good thing), though I imagine that opinion will change when more footage is available. There has already been comparisons to Terrence Malick on some message boards, which is a nice sentiment but, again, probably won't last!

My second thought was, if they're going to do the Batman Begins thing (or perhaps more accurately, the Superman: Birthright thing) of having Clark hitch-hiking and working on a fishing boat in the middle of nowhere, I'm going to end up thinking "erm...shouldn't you be, like, helping people or something? You can fly! Why are you bumming around?". But that problem's not insurmountable if they have a good enough story.

Yes, in the past Zack Snyder has had quite defined limitations in his filmmaking, which I feel is partly reflected in the way he describes bits in his movies as 'cool' or 'awesome'. He's still a step above the likes of McG, or Brett Ratner, whom he sometimes gets compared to. He has good eye for composition and, while his overuse of slow motion can be obnoxious, it's far preferable to the frenetic cuts of a Michael Bay or Tony Scott. Plus, if he has someone good (and more importantly, someone else) writing the script, like he did with James Gunn on Dawn of the Dead, he can make a good movie. Failing that, it'll look nice. Yay, looking nice!

[Small Man Big Horse]

Can't say I'm thrilled by the idea of another origin movie, but then my deranged ramblings about such things need not be repeated yet again. I'll be okay if he's flying around in costume by half way through the movie (if the running time isn't ridiculous), but otherwise I won't be a happy bunny.

[Nik Drou]

Can't say I'm thrilled by the idea of another origin movie.

People say that, but the last Superman film to be an origin story was in 1978. Believe it or not, I think Superman Returns suffered a little from people not knowing enough about Superman. I remember talking to a teenage relative at the time and he had no idea where Superman was from or 'how he got his powers'.

[Small Man Big Horse]

Oh I know when it comes to Supes that doesn't apply (unless you count Smallville, which most sensibly don't) but so many Superhero movies seem to be origin movies of late, and have the feeling that they're just treading water whilst building up to the inevitable second and bigger budgeted film.

I wouldn't mind when it comes to characters who are lesser known, but Spiderman, Batman and Superman especially have ridiculously well known origin stories, and I doubt very few people going in won't know them.

Admittedly part of the grudge I have against them is that as a comics fan I've read them many a time from many a different perspective and so am sick to death of them. But I'm trying to go in with an open mind, and that Snyder (or whoever wrote the script) brings something new to the table. The cast is certainly impressive, and Michael Shannon as the lead villain should hopefully be something special.

[Funcrusher]

People say that, but the last Superman film to be an origin story was in 1978. Believe it or not, I think Superman Returns suffered a little from people not knowing enough about Superman. I remember talking to a teenage relative at the time and he had no idea where Superman was from or 'how he got his powers'.

At this point I really can't be bothered with superhero films at all, but why does it matter in the slightest if people don't know the characters origin? We don't know the origins of 99% of characters in films - a couple of minutes back story is all you need. Instead you end up with a film that tries to cram in the origin story plus a hero vs villain story, so it's all really rushed.

[Bad Ambassador]

whoever wrote the script)

As the end of the trailer states:

STORY by DAVID S. GOYER & CHRISTOPHER NOLAN
SCREENPLAY by DAVID S. GOYER

So that's good.

[CaledonianGonzo]

The trailer that played in front of The Dark Knight Rises looked like an advert for Fisherman's Friends.

[Jemble Fred]

A credit for Nolan is almost tantamount to a guarantee of bollocks IMO, but I love the realistic footage approach at the end there, like Supes' flight was just caught on camera by someone and uploaded to YouTube. Then linked to from Fortean Times.

Cavill is a far better screen presence than Bale too.

[Mini]

Cavill is a far better screen presence than Bale too.

I saw The Cold Light of Day and I'm sorry but I simply can't accept that.

[Jemble Fred]

Perhaps it's just that I'm haunted by the mental image of Bale's beard in TDKR – it looks like he'd just pulled it off a sheet of cardboard in a joke shop. It's hard to prove either way, any aesthetic argument, but I do feel Bruce Wayne looked surprisingly goofy for much of the latest film – he was particularly badly lit as well, with weird hairs sticking out on really inopportune camera angles – whereas Cavill seems to have been groomed pretty well for this new role.

Whether his performance will be superior, it's far, far too early to say, obviously.

My brain cannot compute that Cavill is five years younger than me, somehow. That I'm older than Superman.

[Custard]

Returns wasn't great, but Brandon Routh was a great replacement for Reeve, and Bryan Singer captured the feel and the tone of the previous films just right. Though maybe a little too much so, as it felt like fan-fic or uninspired rehash rather than an exciting new chapter to the story

Kevin Spacey was good as Lex Luthor too, and Parker Posey can be in anything ever, if she so wishes

So it wasn't the cast, it was the duff script. And giving him a Super Son. Seriously, that was bad. And it was too much in thrall to the 70's films

I'm not excited either by this complete reboot, though I can see why they'd decide this is the best way forward, as Returns proved that trying to recapture the previous formula didn't equal a great film, and didn't bring the audience they wanted either

I really wish they had kept Routh, and maybe Spacey, and just tried to start again with a different director. I know keeping the same Superman might be confusing to some of the audience, but come on, Routh was fucked over there. And what's he done since? It's sad, because he was a great Superman who deserved more cracks at it, I think. And a much better script

Their Lois Lane was rubs though, eh?

[spock rogers]

Their Lois Lane was rubs though, eh?

One of the worst casting decisions ever. She looked about 12 for a start.

Now Parker Posey, she would've been a great Lois Lane.

[Marv Orange]

Kevin Spacey was good as Lex Luthor too, and Parker Posey can be in anything ever, if she so wishes

Shame the lex in returns is still an over zealous real estate agent who for all his intelligence courts easily turned women. Wish they'd give the cartoon version of lex a spin in the films.

[phantom_power]

Cavill is a far better screen presence than Bale too.

I think he would have to try very hard for that to be true. I have watched all the Bale Batman films this week and he has a great deal to do in those films. From the nervous and weedy young Wayne at the start of Begins to the tortured older Wayne at the start of DKR and all points in between. Some of the acting in Begins especially is great. They way his face changes when he sees Rachel when he's leaving the restaurant after his impromptu swim is a lesson in subtle facial gestures and showing rather than telling. There are many more examples throughout the trilogy. He may be an arse who takes himself too seriously but he can do the acting stuff

[Jemble Fred]

I agree, he can be a fine actor. But I have also seen the first and final parts of the Batman trilogy within the last week or so, and his Bruce Wayne still comes across as a twat to me. As I say, aesthetically, in the latter film, it's like the lighting and cinematography was designed to make him look stupid.

And obviously his Batman voice has been one of the trilogy's major sources of derision across the board.

Check him out in A Midsummer Night's Dream though, Demetrius could have been written for him. It would be interesting to see him add to his Shakespearean CV, most of his movie choices tend towards the dull, for my taste.

[Replies From View]

Shame the lex in returns is still an over zealous real estate agent who for all his intelligence courts easily turned women. Wish they'd give the cartoon version of lex a spin in the films.

I've always seen roughly the same story with Lex whenever he's appeared.  Lex wants control of some stuff, gets hold of some Kryptonite, briefly does Superman in.  Or in the second film he manages to win over some super villains from Krypton, and in the fourth one he manufactures a super villain somehow.  Is there much more potential with him yet to be mined?

[El Unicornio, mang]

I agree, he can be a fine actor. But I have also seen the first and final parts of the Batman trilogy within the last week or so, and his Bruce Wayne still comes across as a twat to me.

Isn't that the point though? He acts like a twat when he's in public as Bruce Wayne to help hide his identity.

[mobias]

Huge fan of the original two Christopher Reeve Superman movies. What just doesn't feel right about this re-boot is its lack of John Williams score. Superman was and always will be defined by that amazing theme music. Its John Williams at his best I think.

And Christopher Nolan can fuck right off with his gritty joyless approach to film making. Its not welcome anywhere near Superman. I'm not looking forward to this one bit, the trailer looks charmless. 

[El Unicornio, mang]

Definitely agree about John Williams theme tune being awesome. In fact I think it might be the best movie theme of all time, alongside the James Bond one. Glad they used it again for Superman Returns but unlikely they'll use it for this.

Don't mind Nolan/Goyer being involved. We've had the "fun" Superman films/shows, and I'd be interested to see a more gritty version. It's not going to be as dark as Batman anyway, there's only so much grit you can get out of a man in a red cape flying around.

[eluc55]

What just doesn't feel right about this re-boot is its lack of John Williams score. Superman was and always will be defined by that amazing theme music. Its John Williams at his best I think.

Bah. It's a blatant rip-off of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftRoYLzFMKo

[Blumf]

Taking into account the mumbling about Nolan's Batman being a bit iffy in the social/political landscape, shouldn't this Superman reboot go back to Supe's left leaning, Great Depression roots? Help make up for the moral mess of TDKR

[olliebean]

Bah. It's a blatant rip-off of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftRoYLzFMKo

A blatant rip-off that came 9 years before?

[olliebean]

Taking into account the mumbling about Nolan's Batman being a bit iffy in the social/political landscape, shouldn't this Superman reboot go back to Supe's left leaning, Great Depression roots? Help make up for the moral mess of TDKR

Man of Steel = Joseph Stalin. I recall Terry Pratchett saying he wanted to do a Stalin/Superman crossover.

[eluc55]

A blatant rip-off that came 9 years before?

I'll put my red nose and floppy shoes on next time.

[Blumf]

Man of Steel = Joseph Stalin. I recall Terry Pratchett saying he wanted to do a Stalin/Superman crossover.

Kinda like this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Red_Son

[olliebean]

Kinda like this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Red_Son

Pretty much, yes. Terry Pratchett said it over 20 years ago, though.

[Tiny Poster]

My cousin said it before Terry Pratchett. So ner.

[Mister Six]

Returns wasn't great, but Brandon Routh was a great replacement for Reeve, and Bryan Singer captured the feel and the tone of the previous films just right.

Agree about Routh, but whaaaaaaa----? Singer's Superman was all moody and dark and mopey and dull, not whizzy and lighthearted and screwball like the Reeve movies.

[Marv Orange]

I've always seen roughly the same story with Lex whenever he's appeared.  Lex wants control of some stuff, gets hold of some Kryptonite, briefly does Superman in.  Or in the second film he manages to win over some super villains from Krypton, and in the fourth one he manufactures a super villain somehow.  Is there much more potential with him yet to be mined?

He's still a villian with all the tropes that go with that, he's just less of a chump,

[Tiny Poster]

He has an excellent motivation, too, depending on the writer. He resents Superman not as an ideal for humanity to aspire to, but a nanny preventing them from realising their true possibilities.