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iPhone 5

Started by Artemis, September 04, 2012, 10:22:32 PM

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olliebean

Quote from: Replies From View on September 13, 2012, 02:13:08 PMWith the different ratio screen for the iPhone 5, I suspect iOS 6 will be especially annoying on older models.  I can imagine the new maps thing seeming cramped on the iPhone 4S screen, for example.  So while I've been interested in seeing the operating system update since I first heard about it, I'm definitely going to hold back until the reviews come in.

I tried an iOS 6 beta on a 4g iPod touch, the maps app was rubbish compared to the current Google-powered version. Much less detail and most of the street names at any given zoom level were either not shown or off-screen. I really hope that was an early beta and it's got a hell of a lot better since. I took some screenshots for comparison:

     

The flashy 3D maps gimmick doesn't work on pre-4s devices, but in any case it only covers certain cities and from what I've seen of it online looks massively less useful, if more visually impressive, than Streetview.

Replies From View

Is that truly a like-for-like comparison?  If so the new version really is quite poor - as if somebody decided to give up on completing it part way through.  It's not only the missing information that's bad; the green patches for example put me in mind of 16 bit updates of 8 bit games.  It's like they've tried to make it usefully simple, but added in some quite ugly and old-fashioned flourishes on top.

Definitely holding off until more information comes in about what it's like, and not leaping to update straightaway.  Thanks for making me more certain.

MojoJojo

Well, the major problem with google maps is you need an internet connection (or to warn it where you are going before hand). I'd assume the new thing doesn't rely on the internet - it would be mad otherwise.


It has turn-by-turn directions, powered by tom-tom which is the thing which people are willing to pay money for.

Although if it really is that ugly, it says a lot about Apple's fear/hatred of android. Yes, it makes good business sense to dump google maps, but Apple has never been successful when making functional improvements that don't look good.

Which pretty much sums up the iPhone 5 as a whole.

*sigh* how long till Jobs gets a sainthood?

biggytitbo

Wasn't there meant to be some industry agreement about using mini usb? That does the job perfectly well and is ubiquitous and cheap. Not good enough for Apple though!


Don't agree with the 4 inch screen making it more portable. The Galaxy S2/3 is perfectly compact, light and pocket worth even with the bigger screen.

MojoJojo

They got around the European restriction by selling an adaptor.

The doc does do a bit more that a mini-usb [nb]although I don't think there is any technical reason why it couldn't be done through mini-USB[/nb] - it ties in volume controls and probably other stuff. So if you put an ipod/iphone in a dock the volume buttons on the doc change the volume on the device.

olliebean

Quote from: Replies From View on September 13, 2012, 07:40:31 PM
Is that truly a like-for-like comparison?  If so the new version really is quite poor - as if somebody decided to give up on completing it part way through.

Yes, so much so that I'm charitably working on the assumption that it was unfinished at the time. (I downloaded the beta mid-June.) Will definitely be holding off on the update until I've seen what the finished version looks like, though.

TBH the thing that most bothers me about the iPhone 5 is that within a year there are probably going to be a shitload of apps that work poorly or not at all on older devices, due to having been designed or optimised for the larger screen.

Jamie Oliver is fat

lol wtf

QuoteWhich brings us to the new Maps app. This looks very, very good. True, the photo-realistic 3D mapping in Flyover is a gimmick that's limited to a few locations for now. But what a great-looking gimmick.

http://www.reghardware.com/2012/09/13/first_look_apple_iphone_5_hands_on_review/page2.html

brat-sampson

The thing with their proprietary connectors is that they typically use it for more than just a charging point. You can dock the thing and it'll send out music and be controllable via an external device which I guess maybe you can't just do with micro-USB. The regulation only states that they basically have to ship the device with an adapter to convert this socket to a micro-USB one but yeah all the old docks will now need adapting too.

Conversely if I want to hear my Nexus from speakers I connect via standard jack and control it on the phone. Which I find fine.

Replies From View

Quote from: olliebean on September 14, 2012, 10:57:27 AM
TBH the thing that most bothers me about the iPhone 5 is that within a year there are probably going to be a shitload of apps that work poorly or not at all on older devices, due to having been designed or optimised for the larger screen.

Me too.  Hopefully not going with various app updates will keep things okay, but it's something of an arse really.

Apple Products:  Gotta Catch 'Em All!!!

jutl

Quote from: Replies From View on September 14, 2012, 12:09:14 PM
Me too.  Hopefully not going with various app updates will keep things okay, but it's something of an arse really.

Apple Products:  Gotta Catch 'Em All!!!

Seeing as they'll still be selling old ratio devices iPhone 4, 4S and iPod Touch 4G for at least another year, I'd guess that most app developers will either ignore the extra screen space or make adaptations entirely optional. 

Jamie Oliver is fat

Quote from: olliebean on September 14, 2012, 10:57:27 AM
TBH the thing that most bothers me about the iPhone 5 is that within a year there are probably going to be a shitload of apps that work poorly or not at all on older devices, due to having been designed or optimised for the larger screen.

It's almost as though the devious fuckers are deliberately making their old kit redundant

Replies From View

Quote from: Jamie Oliver is fat on September 14, 2012, 12:55:09 PM
It's almost as though the devious fuckers are deliberately making their old kit redundant

I do wonder how far they can push that before entirely alienating their less-obsessed customers.  They seem to be working under the assumption that everyone buying Apple products is somehow bound to keep on doing so forever.

The more arbitrary the new models' "benefits" become, the more people will take issue with being forced to upgrade, I think.  A tall/widescreen phone (with black bars in apps until they are updated to take account of the extra space) can't be on many people's "must have" lists.

jutl

Quote from: olliebean on September 13, 2012, 06:42:29 PMThe flashy 3D maps gimmick doesn't work on pre-4s devices, but in any case it only covers certain cities and from what I've seen of it online looks massively less useful, if more visually impressive, than Streetview.

Yes, Street View will be a big loss from the iOS maps app. I think that the difference in rendering you are seeing is down to the vector-based nature of the iOS Maps data. Google's tiles are processed on Google's servers and text labelling added with gay abandon. The iOS Maps version is being rendered on the phone, with the result that it only adds major street labels at that level of zoom. I'm sure the street names are there when you zoom in, it's just that they are choosing not to render shitloads of them, probably for both aesthetic and processor-budgeting reasons.

Quote from: MojoJojo on September 13, 2012, 10:16:52 PM
Well, the major problem with google maps is you need an internet connection (or to warn it where you are going before hand). I'd assume the new thing doesn't rely on the internet - it would be mad otherwise.

It does need a connection, which is how they can collaborate with Tomtom while not just destroying Tomtom's market; you'll still need to pay for Tomtom or similar if you want to navigate without data costs.

olliebean

Quote from: Jamie Oliver is fat on September 14, 2012, 11:09:58 AMhttp://www.reghardware.com/2012/09/13/first_look_apple_iphone_5_hands_on_review/page2.html

It occurs to me that everything I've seen online about the new Maps app over the past few months, including this review, has focused exclusively on the whizzy new 3D flyover mode and not said a damn thing about what the basic functional top-down maps look like. I've not even seen any pictures of it in standard maps mode apart from the one I posted earlier.

El Unicornio, mang

Not related to the iphone, but I just found out that google street view has interiors now. Had a good old time roaming around some local restaurants and a, erm, bike shop.

olliebean

Right, well this is what it looks like in the final version:



So definitely a vast improvement over the beta as far as street names go, but I still prefer the Google version and this is a matter of personal preference of course but I find it more useful to see where the tube stations are than a load of pubs and wine bars.

The Google satellite view is also a lot clearer, if you like that sort of thing.

El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: MojoJojo on September 13, 2012, 10:16:52 PM
Well, the major problem with google maps is you need an internet connection (or to warn it where you are going before hand). I'd assume the new thing doesn't rely on the internet - it would be mad otherwise.


Is anyone who has a smartphone not going to have access to the internet though? Either through wi-fi or 3G/4G etc.

Thursday

If you're on a Pay as you go smartphone, it'd be useful to have maps without needing credit in case of an emergency.

Replies From View

Will the new iPhone maps have a satellite view?

olliebean

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on September 15, 2012, 10:23:57 PM
Is anyone who has a smartphone not going to have access to the internet though? Either through wi-fi or 3G/4G etc.

iPod touch here. It's not just for phones.

Quote from: Replies From View on September 15, 2012, 10:36:37 PM
Will the new iPhone maps have a satellite view?

Yes, it does, but it's disappointingly dark and fuzzy compared to the old one, and at full zoom is about half the scale of Google's.

Morrison Lard

I have a right old knacker of a phone but yesterday, after lengthy forum searches and head scratching, I finally made it connect to cookdandbombd.

It was a bit slow and shit, but I felt like a proper geek browsing this place whilst wandering about.

The internet history of the previous owner was also quite entertaining.

Replies From View

Quote from: olliebean on September 15, 2012, 11:22:08 PM
Yes, it does, but it's disappointingly dark and fuzzy compared to the old one, and at full zoom is about half the scale of Google's.

Sort your shit out, Apple.

Replies From View

I know I said I'd wait, but I've downloaded iOS 6.  After reading a couple of reviews it seems the Maps anomalies will be gone after a number of server updates, since they won't be relying on an operating system update.  So I felt better that this wouldn't be like when Siri failed to improve, and bit the bullet.  Curiosity got the better of me and I updated both my iPad and iPhone yesterday - the iPad first, since I never used Google Maps on that and it seemed like the better place to test the operating system, and then the iPhone when I realised some of the overall benefits of iOS 6.

Really the Maps is fine for the moment, but bafflingly lacks train stations and things like "Bath Abbey".  I'm going to be keeping mine set to satellite/hybrid mode until the standard map looks decent.  The standard map is useless, sometimes showing shopping centres as green park areas, for example.  Once you get to a certain part of London's Zone 1, though, the "satellite" view is actually the 3D building view from top-down (it looks really cluttered all of a sudden), and there seems to be no way of just getting a satellite photograph of these areas anymore when you're simply want a top-down view.  No doubt these'll take an age to render on 3G.  They need at least three distinct options:  standard, satellite and 3D, please.

Anyway I found no problems with street names being missing or wrong or anything like that, and I was looking at a fairly obscure part of Bath as well as London.  Also, Siri can now do navigation stuff outside of the US.  This is what I wanted from Siri in the first place - to ask for walking directions to a certain location, and get the directions without having to stop and press anything because I'm walking.  This is basically why I downloaded iOS 6, and a few teething problems aside that should be fixed soonish, I think it'll be fine.


The youtube app is gone, which struck me as odd.  You need to search in the App Store for its replacement (it's free of course), which the iPhone already has but not the iPad yet.  For the iPad you need to use the youtube website for now.

Music has been changed - podcasts are removed from it.  Podcasts now have their own app, which again you need to search for in the App Store (also free).


That's about it so far.  Any other experiences?

olliebean

The Passbook app could do with some sort of explanation when you first run it of what it actually is, rather than just something about "passes" not really explaining what they are and a link to a Lufthansa app.

Incidentally couldn't do a search on the new app store without it crashing. Looks like they're continuing the tradition of easing old devices out by making increasing numbers of new apps just not work with them. But the app store, such a basic, essential app, really? V disappointed in Apple for this.

Replies From View

#84
Okay, a rambling live update on my previous iOS 6 post.  This time a less positive response to the new Maps app, since I used the Google Maps one all the time to get from point A to point B, with bus, tube and train times all worked out and presented in a straightforward single journey with correct departure times etc. as if by magic.


If you ask for directions in the Maps app that require public transport, without Google Maps it now doesn't do it automatically.  No, it takes you to a list of Transport Apps from the App Store, with no clear indication of exactly which of these many options is the one that'll do the trick, or indeed if they will integrate with the Maps programme which is the point.

I already have a good train departure app, a good London Underground app and a good bus one, and what I want is for the Maps app to sort me out a complete single journey within itself.  You get the impression that these apps are add-ons that'll make Maps complete.

Okay, well the one on the top of the list it's giving me for the London Underground is free, so I'll download it...

*downloads*


So now I have two London Underground apps, this one and TubeMap Pro which I paid for months ago and didn't need replacing.  Now I'm going back to maps, and asking directions from where I live to the Ritzy cinema in Brixton (just an arbitrary location) - it's walking distance but I'm insisting it tell me the way using public transport.  It now takes me back to the Transport Apps list, but with the option of finding the route using the specific London Tube app I have just downloaded.  What if I want to use the bus?  Well, the next app on the list is a bus one, but it's for London only, and it costs 69p.

You now click "route" on the London Tube app you've just downloaded (the ones you haven't bought are still listed underneath), and when you do this, the app shows you your tube options, as if you'd simply not gone via Maps at all.  It's much less useful than TubeMap Pro; the only so-called benefit is that Maps opens up this new one for me.  It gives me tube options and nothing more; it is a standalone Tube app.  What if I want to blend trains and buses into one journey?  What if I want to travel by bus into a different city?  Is there any way of combining transport apps to achieve what Google Maps used to do on its own?


Alright, taking a hit for the team I'll pay 69p for this bus app to see if these two apps will integrate into a single journey that does buses and tubes together...

*downloads*


Nope, it's just buses.  So stick with any apps you already have, as they're probably better, and don't assume the Maps app will pull them together to work out journeys for you, because it won't - it just opens up apps (and not the ones you already have).  It's now useless for anything other than walking and car journeys, and it doesn't know many locations yet anyway.

Replies From View

Quote from: olliebean on September 20, 2012, 11:36:31 AM
Incidentally couldn't do a search on the new app store without it crashing. Looks like they're continuing the tradition of easing old devices out by making increasing numbers of new apps just not work with them. But the app store, such a basic, essential app, really? V disappointed in Apple for this.

I have no problems with the App Store on my iPad or iPhone 4S.

Artemis

Shipping time is now 3-4 weeks. Sod that. I'm not spending most of my disposable income then waiting until the next month before I see anything for it. I would like to get one but I'm not falling over myself to do it; I'll wait a few weeks until Apple get this sorted.

Replies From View

A closer look at Maps.

The south end of Bath, in 2D "standard" mode:




You flip it to satellite view in the same way as before.  Here's the same view in the "hybrid" mode (includes all the labels).  The "Southgate" area that's all green like a park in the standard mode is, in fact, a shopping area and bus station:




With two fingers you can spin the map around, and the labels all stay the right way up, which is nice:




Changing nothing but the view mode to "hybrid", some of the labels have mysteriously changed:




Take two fingers and push up, and it goes into 3D mode, or rather a tilted overview, the angle of which you can change to your heart's content by sliding two fingers up and down:




You can do this in "standard" mode too.  This is the same view as above:





How pointless, I hear you cry!  Well, let's use 3D mode somewhere that matters, like London!!  It only currently works for part of zone 1, so let's type regent street london into the search and get on with it!!!




Confused that it's so dark and cloudy, and unable to make out any details or names that I recognise, I zoom out and move about a bit:



Okay, is that the Thames?  Maybe if I put London at the start; London Regent Street:



It says Thames, but it finally dawns on me that this isn't the UK.  Glad I'm not in a hurry.



Searching for london regents park gets us in the UK; I mean for fuck's sake. 




"Hybrid" 2D version:




Push up with two fingers and you descend into the landscape:




Zoom in, spin around, whatever:










Whoop de fucking do.

Replies From View

#88
Directions.

Here I am in Bath, and let's say I want to get a bus to Bath Spa station.  You know - the main train station in the City of Bath.  It's a short 25 minute walk maximum, but for the sake of argument let's say I need to take public transport.


This is the way to do it, right?  This is the way I'd do it in iOS 5 but maybe you know another way.




I hit "bath spa station".

The next screen you get is something like this:




I hope you like that screen, because users of iOS 6 will see it a lot.  That never stops being the next screen, but the apps you see will depend on where in the country (or indeed in which country) you are.  Downloading any number of apps won't get you from "directions" to a map with directions.  The two apps you can see at the top are ones I've downloaded.  They were free, and the ones seemingly most recommended for this particular journey, since they were at the top of the "From the App Store" list (after the £47.99 one anyway.  Fans of spending money on apps will delight in NAVIGON Europe, a little further down when you scroll, being £59.99).  If you haven't downloaded one of these on a previous occasion you will need to download one at this stage; your own travel apps most likely won't be there.

I hit "ROUTE" on "JP CONNECT" since it's at the top of the page and presumably the most relevant:



Yeah man, awesome!  What a fucking beautiful map!




What are those orange squiggles??  The "destination" circle is on the bus station, not the train station, but at least that suggests the app knows that I want to travel by bus, even if it plans to abandon me before my destination.  I hit "Go now".

A 28 minute walk, it says:




I THOUGHT I ASKED FOR PUBLIC TRANSPORT.  The reason I downloaded this thing was to get a bus route!

So within the app, I change the fucking settings.  I grey out every option apart from the bus:



And it just gives me the walking route again, but has managed to shave a minute off somehow, which is good.




Searching "bath spa station" from scratch within the app doesn't give me the option of the actual Bath Spa Station.  Green Park Station hasn't been a train station since the days of Beeching.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_Green_Park_railway_station


Again, I'm glad I'm not in a hurry.


Anyway, here's how the walk to Green Park Station looks on the glorious map they provide, although I've moved the map up so you can't see my parents' address.




Fucking incredible.  And don't forget it's done nothing for bus routes which was my reason for downloading this mess of an app in the first place.

olliebean

Quote from: Replies From View on September 20, 2012, 11:56:03 AM
I have no problems with the App Store on my iPad or iPhone 4S.

From a Google search it seems it's not an uncommon problem with the iPod touch 4g (which is what I have). I expect it's the old out-of-memory problem again - i.e., the same reason why loads of games that work fine on a 4S crash out a lot on the 4g touch, because it has less RAM than the phone and they haven't tested it properly on the touch, just assumed that as it's the same generation it'll work just as well. I would have expected better testing from Apple themselves, though, especially with what is easily one of the most important apps on the device.