What’s up, Holmes? (Elementary, new show)

[Ignatius_S]

Anyone going to check Elementary? Jonny Lee Miller plays Sherlock Holmes, who returns to sleuthing after a spell in rehab... but to keep him on the straight and narrow, he's hired sensible doctor, John Joan Watson (portrayed by Lucy Liu) to keep an eye on him.

It's had pretty favourable reviews, particularly for the leads.

[Mister Six]

Not much cop, if the first two episodes are anything to go by. The great thing about Sherlock (which this was created to mimic after Moffat and Gatiss declined to adapt the show for the US) was that it was a proper update of everything that made Arthur Conan Doyle's stories so much fun, written by fans of the original works. Other than the names of the two leads, this thing could be any 'genius helps the police' show. Especially when the clues that he's spotting are nowhere near as clever or as interesting as the stuff that Holmes tackles in the BBC show.

Also, Johnny Lee Miller - while a fine actor generally - just doesn't have the force of personality that the role really requires, especially when Liu just has so much presence. Oddly enough, I think it might work better the other way around, with Lucy Liu as Holmes and Miller as Watson - Liu's got the fierce intensity that Holmes needs, and Miller would work better as a likeable second lead.

Also Watson keeps spotting vital clues, which sort of misunderstands the good doctor's role in the Holmes/Watson relationship...

[surreal]

I think it's been ok, just forget that it's supposed to be Sherlock Holmes and treat it as "weirdo solves crimes by being weird" and it's fine.  It's no more objectionable than something like "Castle".  I reckon they had an idea for a cop show and just bolted on the Holmes stuff to pitch it anyway.

[olliebean]

OK, a bit humdrum, the first episode wasn't bad enough not to give it a second chance but the 2nd wasn't good enough to give it a third. Wouldn't object to watching it if I was bored and it was on and I had nothing else to watch, but I don't think I'll be bothering to download it.

[Jemble Fred]

How the hell does it work, if they're not using Conan Doyle's plots? Surely if the episodes are original stories, this has less to do with Sherlock Holmes than The Lion King has to do with Hamlet?

[Mildly Diverting]

It's House with an English accent.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

It's like watching a drab police procedural starring Derren Brown, but not as good as that sounds.

[Mister Six]

It's House with an English accent.

House is actually a better adaptation of Holmes than this is.

The lead cop isn't even called Lestrade, FFS!

[Jemble Fred]

I think we can all agree that our version of Breaking Bad is going to piss all over this.

[mjwilson]

Is it turning up on Freeview?

[Nuclear Optimism]

The problem with setting Sherlock Holmes in the present day is that his character is such a huge part of our culture that it's impossible to imagine a world (ie the world of the show) where such references have never existed. Simple things like "Elementary my dear Watson" and the deerstalker hat (no matter how inaccurate they might be) are inextricably woven into our society. He's practically a historical figure at this point. That means shows such as this one, and the BBC version with that stiff posh git everyone fancies, always end up in some weird alternate universe where common cultural tropes (to use an overused word) are absent.

It would be like setting a King Arthur story in the present day; it wouldn't really be our present day at all. Imagine a dramatisation of the life of Hitler or Churchill set in modern times; it just doesn't fit. They changed the world. That's why the only good Holmes adaptions are the ones set Back Then, where/when he belongs.

[Mister Six]

Naaaaah, how many times do you say 'elementary' in a daily conversation? Or reference a deerstalker hat? Just don't set any stories in Baker Street underground station and you're fine.

[The Roofdog]

Naaaaah, how many times do you say 'elementary' in a daily conversation? Or reference a deerstalker hat? Just don't set any stories in Baker Street underground station and you're fine.

I'm having the same problem with my script about Gerry Rafferty and Bob Holness fighting zombies on the Circle line.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Wait, I've got something for this:

[olliebean]

It would be like setting a King Arthur story in the present day; it wouldn't really be our present day at all. Imagine a dramatisation of the life of Hitler or Churchill set in modern times; it just doesn't fit. They changed the world.

Apparently the new version of Jesus Christ Superstar has all CCTV and twitter and shit in it.

[Nuclear Optimism]

Yeah, but Jesus Christ Superstar was always shit anyway.

[Talulah, really!]

I don't know, I thought the guy in the Crucifixion scene really nailed it.

[Butchers Blind]

Caught this the other night.  To me it just seemed like any other bland american cop/detective drama but with the Holmes thing thrown in to raise its profile.  The script was lazy with the plot raising no surprises which is kind of what you want with a Sherlockian mystery.  Didn't buy either of the leads in their respective roles - JLM not even getting near what Holmes is.  Can't see this getting a second bite of the cherry.

[Ignatius_S]

...Can't see this getting a second bite of the cherry.

A couple of days ago, it was announced that a full season has been ordered due to the show's reception.

[Mildly Diverting]

Anyone kept up with this one? Its now four episodes in and, dear lord, its gone from passable to quite excruciatingly bad in that brief a time. Which is a real shame, because Miller is starting to peel away a few of Sherlock's layers and could really have been a pretty good Holmes with a script that didn't treat the viewer as a complete moron.

Oh, and they nicked at least two good lines from Sherlock in Episode 4. Grubby.

[Mister Six]

What were the lines? Can't be arsed downloading it just to find out...

[Mildly Diverting]

What were the lines? Can't be arsed downloading it just to find out...

From the first episode of Sherlock where he's sitting by the ambulance after Watson has shot the cabbie, Sherlock needs an excuse to leave and says to Lestrade, "Can't you see I'm in shock?". In Elementary, Sherlock is sitting by an ambulance after some old nonsense I've already forgotten and says to Watson he needs some pure oxygen because, "Can't you see I'm in trauma?"

From the final episode of Sherlock where Sherlock is showing off to the judge how clever he is and identifies two of the jurors as having an affair. In Elementary, Sherlock has to show how clever he is to be given a case by the head of the board. So, in a meeting he identifies two of the board members as having an affair.

Maybe not enough to annoy anyone else, but it was the mimicking of the situations as much as the lines that got me.

[Jemble Fred]

Do they not even have a Miss Hudson? What a load of ballacks.

[Panbaams]

Presumably Lestrade and Mrs Hudson are back in London, which this Holmes has just left, along with a flat numbered 221B and all of Conan Doyle's stories.

[HappyTree]

Just started watching this. It's ok, but definitely dumbed down for the US. The police chief is particularly bad. But it's something to watch innit.

[Jackson K Pollock]

Although I gave up on this after episode one, I've just found out that

Spoiler alert

Vinnie Jones

[close]

is playing Moriarty!

That should be worth a watch for curiosity value alone, I'd have thought.

[Jim_MacLaine]

Although I gave up on this after episode one, I've just found out that

Spoiler alert

Vinnie Jones

[close]

is playing Moriarty!

That should be worth a watch for curiosity value alone, I'd have thought.

I've seen that episode and it's not Moriarty. He's just a killer sent by Moriarty. His thing seemed to be watching Arsenal play on tv as he killed his victims.

Poor.

[Jemble Fred]

Thank you thank you thank you! Having not bothered with this show at all, I was literally just about to find and torrent that episode purely on the basis of Vinnie being Moriarty himself. Close shave.

[Jackson K Pollock]

Ah yes, looks like you might be right - apparently he plays a killer called "M", a red herring of a name designed to encourage speculation that he's Moriarty.

I'm almost disappointed now...

[cleverjake]

Ah yes, looks like you might be right - apparently he plays a killer called "M", a red herring of a name designed to encourage speculation that he's Moriarty.

I'm almost disappointed now...

(He plays Sebastian Moran)