Main Menu

Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 28, 2024, 11:18:35 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Children's Comedy

Started by 12 years, 11 months old, July 06, 2004, 07:40:31 PM

Previous topic - Next topic
Waiting at a bus stop last week, I found myself next to a mother and her young child, who was probably about five or six. I found myself next to them for a further five minutes, as the bus became increasingly late, and then for another five minutes, as the next one became increasingly less early. The little boy looked up at me, and I, reflexively, pulled a funny face.

The child smiled in return, looked away, and then back. A different face. We continued this silent exchange of expressions until I, in a veritable coup de grace of odd demeanours, gurned in such a way as to make the boy, and then myself, laugh. Meanwhile his mother was occupied making funny faces alternately at her watch and the bus timetable.

What does all this prove? Probably not that I am some sort of Lee Evans like rubber faced comedic genius. More likely it goes to show that children will laugh at almost anything. They are rubbish at liking comedy. They laugh at clowns, Punch and Judy cartoon violence, the Chuckle Brothers, dog poo and a thousand other things without discernment. We are adults, who properly don't laugh at these things. We supposedly like sketches about brain cancer, or something. Such is the difference between children and grown ups.

As you read this, some children somewhere are laughing at this:



And amazingly, so are some adults. Mark Kermode attributes this phenomenon to:

Quotegeneration-straddling gags, leaving the children to gurgle in sugar-frenzied joy at the farting monsters, while the grown-ups snigger knowingly at references to a wide range of movies, including Alien, Flashdance, From Here to Eternity, Ghostbusters, Mission: Impossible and more

The common metaphor is of such films working 'on two levels', forming a solid comedy structure accessible to both children and adults. I don't know when this particular architectural trend began – Disney's Aladdin maybe? What I do know is that the two levels aren't as distinct as suggested. Not only do the more puerile among us enjoy the slapstick kid's gags, but reasonably intelligent children will pick on the knowing references and ironic nudges. And I think this is a bit sad. Turning children into post-modern ironists is not just unfortunate but borderline morally corrupting, because being a post-modern ironist isn't much fun, is it? Any genuine childhood innocence on any 'level' of Shrek ends up being muted by the self-referential orgy going on above.

What is childhood innocence anyway? Sam recently pointed us to Dylan Thomas poeticising his heart out for a youth when he was 'happy as the grass was green'. I don't know what TV comedy was like when Thomas was young, it was probably rubbish. But I do remember a different sort of children's comedy, one that bought adults and children together on one level, through pure quality of humour. Being a certain age not much above childhood myself, I remember Maid Marian and Her Merry Men.



I was happy as Marian was green.

Quote from: "Mark Lewisohn"With its sharp scripts and outrageous, purposefully anachronistic plots, Robinson's refreshingly earthy series was good enough not only to amuse children; it could have entertained adults too had it been scheduled in a later slot.

Sharp scripts. That and the sheer childhood exuberance of the series made it great.

That's not to the detriment of more recent children's series I have enjoyed. Premier among these is

The Rottentrolls

The Rottentrolls was the story of a band of puppet trolls, their elected monarchs - a ten year old prince and his younger sister, and the military-minded sheep Commander Harries. Featuring Martin Clunes, John Thompson and Alistair Macgowan, it could often be as cleverly ironic and referential as Shrek, as when Commander Harries deconstructs the whole programme as part of a Richard and Judy style televised phone-in.

Quote from: "Commander Harries"Oh. I just feel I'm wasting my life. I just, well, I keep training these sheep to be paratroopers and sometimes I look at them and think, well, they're just sheep!

So have I completely undermined my previous criticism of Shrek et al? Probably yes. But central to The Rottentrolls was a sustained, genuinely childish enthusiasm and silliness, as in my favourite episode, where several characters become trapped in a shed perched perilously on the edge of a cliff:

QuoteQK: Commander Harries, how do you train to keep still in the army?
CH: We did stillness training with Lieutenant Colonel Harry Still Jackson.
QK: So what made Lieutenant Colonel Harry Still Jackson so good at keeping still?
CH: He was dead in fact, we realised that about twenty minutes into the first lesson

Nowadays I don't watch children's TV as much as I'd like, but a month or so ago I was lucky enough to catch an episode of  My Parents are Aliens on CITV. It was a completely refreshing with genuinely funny situations played straight for laughs, where one character was described as 'as cultured as a footballer's armpit'. Give me that over the Boosh any Nighty Night.

So childish humour is not crap. In fact, it's the best thing about comedy. And everything good, from Monty Python and the Goodies, through Blackadder to Lee and Herring is enthused by the same childish sensibility. However bad adult comedy gets, we'll always have children's telly as a source of simply funny stuff. All just more complex ways of pulling funny faces, really.

What then, are your favourite children's comedies? Do series from the 60s, 70s and 80s put all the above in the shade? Does children's comedy have any influence on adult comedy? Can you reply without making a funny face? Go on.

Russ

Just to tie this and another thread together, Mr Biffo of Digitiser fame has written around six episodes of My Parents Are Aliens, and he discusses the writing process over in the forums at his site (www.mrbiffo.com) on a semi-regular basis.

In fact, he says that chilren's sitcoms are just as hard to write, if not more difficult, becaue of the need to have many plots running simultaneously, A, B, and C, and then to all tie up.

So children's comedy seems to have more pressure put on it to have better scripts, rather than relying on a cast or good acting to provide the laughs (which a lot of the time can be sadly absent).

To return to another point, I caught some Maid Marion last year I think it was, maybe the year before, and it was still great. I couldn't stomach a whole episode, so I would say that maybe the writing isn't *quite* strong enough to appeal to all adults all of the time, but the Tony Robinson bits still made me giggle.

QuoteQK: Commander Harries, how do you train to keep still in the army?
CH: We did stillness training with Lieutenant Colonel Harry Still Jackson.
QK: So what made Lieutenant Colonel Harry Still Jackson so good at keeping still?
CH: He was dead in fact, we realised that about twenty minutes into the first lesson

This is bloody funny. Must look out for it.

Vermschneid Mehearties

I loved the programme Maid Marian as a kid. I can't remember any others I'd be happy to say I liked though.

I was into mainstream adult comedy pretty quickly though- TDT aged 10. I laughed at different things about The Day Today then though.*

*Those being, the overly elaborate introduction had me in tears, as did the introductions ("Top Gits tonight", etc). I also liked the funny names, and especially Partridge who was perfect to watch as a child- the sort of uptight buffoonish character that works well for children. I also used the monged football team names as thinly-veiled inspiration to make other kids in primary school laugh at me.

I think TDT can be watched by children, as it's so silly, it can be watched with pleasure by children, and it's also so witty, it is loved by adults too. There's an example of a Morris work that I'd show to my kids from about 8 onwards.

Lt Plonker

There's a lot of intelligent writing in cartoons now days that I'm still surprised at the reaction I get from my mum, when she walks in on me chuckling my guts off to The Powerpuff Girls . It's usually an "aren't you a bit old for this?" style reaction, despite the fact that the entire episode has just managed the parody the career of The Beatles whilst littering the dialogue with Beatles song names.

There's a stigma attached to cartoons, and possibly animation in general - they're bright and colourful and silly -looking, therefore they are for children. That seems to be the general concencus. How else do you explain the fact that The Simpsons won best fucking CHILDREN's SHOW on Channel fucking 4?

Of course the reason that so many "childrens" shows appeal to adults is because they're written and created by adults! They're only writing and drawing what they find funny. It's always been that way. The Warner Bros. cartoons, Tom & Jerry, Dexter's Laboratory, The Sooty Show, Chucklevision - all done by adults who are trying to amuse themselves more than the kids.

I put my Sooty DVD on a few months ago and was in hysterics. Not in a condescending "Look at this guff" view, but out of sheer enjoyment of the watching Matthew Corbet flail wildly in his car and watching Sweep packing his bones into his suitcase. Same with Chucklevision - I love it. Sheer silliness.

Glyn

QuoteWhat then, are your favourite children's comedies?

christ id hate this thread to become a 'student night out hitting 10 oclock stage' (always typified now by one man thumping the table saying 'aaah ,NITEMARE !) but just wondering how many other 80s kids remember 'round the bend' ,no not the dreadful aussie lighthouse crap (that was round the twist) but the itv show , viz meets roland rat type thing with wee man vs bumra etc. it wasnt clever but christ it was funny

Russ

What other direction can this thread take?

Round the Bend was great, but the one thing that always stands out for me was the rats shouting 'panic stations!' - something which i still say.

lactating man nips

I have to say that when I was a kid I never laughed at the chucklevision and remember it making me angry it was so dire, which reminds me, anyone remember out of tune? That was the stuff nightmares are made of.
         Kids cartoons today all seem astoundingly surreal, im sure most kids cant know what's going on half the time. One cartoon I have recently seen a few episodes of is invader zim which I found endlessly entertaining.

thatmuch

Quote from: "Vermschneid Mehearties"I think TDT can be watched by children, as it's so silly, it can be watched with pleasure by children, and it's also so witty, it is loved by adults too. There's an example of a Morris work that I'd show to my kids from about 8 onwards.

There are lots of things children could pick up on, like the weatherman, any Alan Partridge, the clergy bullying. Some things would be baffling though.
My reaction to the 'Christopher Morris' character is basically infantile. I like the way he makes everything REALLY IMPORTANT and is rude and shouts at people.

Dark Sky

Series one and two of Maid Marian aren't brilliant, but series three and four are absolute works of genius.

Funnier, wittier, cheesier, and more intelligent than Blackadder, if you ask me.   Plus you can watch it in the same room as yer mum without having to cough over the rude jokes.  'Cause there aren't any.  Brilliant.

Dark Sky :o)

A Passing Turk Slipper

Quote from: "iandredd"Kids cartoons today all seem astoundingly surreal, im sure most kids cant know what's going on half the time.
I totally agree. I think a lot of them today are great (although I'm sure there are many exceptions), I've watched 'the Fairly Odd Parents' occasionally and I can remember finding a lot of it really funny. A lot of those cartoons despite being made for children are packed full of jokes and stuff that a lot of younger kids wouldn't get and are really witty, as well as the surreal stuff that everyone can find funny.

DuncanC

Just saw Shrek 2. I thought it was excellent, very enjoyable stuff. The Powerpuff Girls, mentioned earlier, is another thing I think is very frequently fantastic (although there's apparently no good commercial release - just some "best of"s - and I've rarely seen it online either).

Maid Marion was good, I remember a Crystal Maze spoof I laughed my tits off at. I also remember really really liking WYSIWYG, though no-one ever seems to remember it, or if they do, disliked it.

The Fanciful Norwegian

The Adventures of Pete and Pete. Probably the only "kids' comedy" with cameos by Patty Hearst, Michael Stipe and Hunter S. Thompson. That's not why I like it, I'm just trying to play up the uniqueness of it or whatever.

Narshty

More votes for Maid Marian and her Merry Men, Round the Bend and Roger and the Rottentrolls. You can get a few early episodes of the latter on DVD for about a fiver each, and well worth it they are.

I still have a soft spot for Chucklevision. You're always guaranteed a few great exchanges, like:
QuotePaul: I know!
Barry: What?
Paul: Lots of things.
or
QuoteBarry goes through to watch TV. Puts it on, and 'Postman Pat' theme starts playing.

Barry: Hey! Postman Pat! I've not seen this for years.

Ear-splitting sound effects of revving engines, squealing tyres, machine gun fire and cats meowling sends Barry to hide behind a cushion.

Barry: Blimey, that's changed.

Jemble Fred

Jesus Christ, two genuinely funny Chucklevision exchanges?! I'd always hated that show, too. I'm shocked that we've got this far and nobody has mentioned Trevor & Simon. Looking back now, they were a bit cheesier than I remember when they were performing in the studio, but, probably because they always intended to be comedians in their own right rather than children's entertainers, the properly recorded sketches still stand up as chortlesome comedy whatever your age. Very much in a ISIRTA-punning vein.

QuoteIt's usually an "aren't you a bit old for this?" style reaction, despite the fact that the entire episode has just managed the parody the career of The Beatles whilst littering the dialogue with Beatles song names.

You bugger! You realise I'm going to spend the rest of my days looking for that episode now? The show itself always grated with me as I couldn't stand the animation, but that one has to be tracked down and bought.

Otherwise, obviously votes for Maid Marian, although I'm surprised to find that there were four series. I'm sure I only saw the first three, and still find them (particularly series 2, with the Comic Relief spoof and all) to be great TV. The comic book version added extra layers of great laughs onto them as well – I think I have all of them bar the one which Kryten and Holly from Red Dwarf turned up in. Grammar.

PS- Did I dream it, or was Rottentrolls written by Simon Nye? If not him, another great writer for adults. I really should go and check and stop asking you all impertinent questions.

mwude

Wallace & Gromit does it for me.  I remember our art teacher showing us 'A Grand Day Out' one lesson (probably aged about 13 or 14) & being hugely impressed and highly amused.  It's not over-loaded with knowing references & winks at the audience.  It's not aimed at kids with a bit extra to keep the parents happy, it's just aimed at making the audience (of whatever age) laugh.  The last one 'A Close Shave' didn't really grab me in the same way, it was in danger of starting to become formulaic.  

But 'The Wrong Trousers'?  Absolutely fucking brilliant.  I've never laughed so hard at anything as the scene on the toy trains when Gromit grabs the spare track & starts laying it out.  It's a scene that could only really work using stop-go animation - impossible to do in real life and CGI or cartoon / drawn animation just wouldn't work.  It's the perfect combination of the animator's skill, imagination & humour.  That's the stand-out scene in half an hour of superb comedy.

It you had to pigeon-hole it I'd think you'd have to say that Wallace & Gromit was aimed at children, but it doesn't try to corrupt them into being post-modern ironists.  Both Wallce & Gromit pull quite a lot of funny faces too.  Gromit's little depressed looks to camera with just a twitch of an eyebrow are superb.

2pintz

Sweet Christ! Maid Marrian! Surely a lost gem in the void of comedy. Just remember the episode where that spoof Paul and Linda McCartney, which the BBC didn't repeat when they reran them last year due to Lindas Death. Anyone know if there are any encoded episodes anywhere? as with the bbc being the bbc, i cant see advd coming soon...

2pintz

mikeyg27

I also love Maid Marion, and I also liked Round the Twist, but then I was a big fan of Paul Jennings' books. Watching the Powerpuff Girls, its incredible what they get away with. I remember one episode which ended with the Girls beating the living shit out of Mojo Jojo, so that he was a bloody mess and his brain was falling out of his skull, before the narrator came in with "Ha ha ha. Oh Mojo Jojo, will you ever learn?"

The narrator is so cool.

DuncanC

Oh, agreed about Round the Twist, I loved that. Without my pants.

Dr David V

I'm frankly shocked that no-one's mentioned The Ren & Stimpy Show yet. It's fantastic, better than a lot of adult comedy around (it's on nightly on Nick Toons at 9:30pm). Also, I do quite like Kenan and Kel, in a kind of no-brainer farcical way. But the vast majority of children's comedy is absolutely appalling shit. And to people who say "yeah, but it's only for kids", that's no reason to have to put up with shit comedy until they reach a certain age.

Oh, and whoever said Wallace and Gromit, you are correct.

Russ

I never even discovered the Round The Twist books until after I'd seen the TV series, but then I loved reading them, as there was more in the books than there ever was in the TV series.. at least, there was at the time. No doubt every story was pillaged in the end, as they made loads of shows it seemed.

I always wanted one of those remote controls that you could use in real life though, in the one they had where they used it to FFWD the contestant in the spaghetti eating contest.

SimonJT

QuoteI'm frankly shocked that no-one's mentioned The Ren & Stimpy Show yet. It's fantastic, better than a lot of adult comedy around (it's on nightly on Nick Toons at 9:30pm

Yeah - I was delighted to discover that this was back, having been off the screen for ages. A wonderfully silly and inventive show.

There are quite a few American kids' cartoons that I love, which clearly had adult feel: as well as R&S, there's Cow & Chicken, The Angry Beavers, Dexter's Laboratory and even SpongeBob Squarepants.

I'm aware of how emotionally stunted watching these shows makes me look, but they are fantastic.

Morrisfan82

Hey, this might not be the most relevant thread for this, but whilst checking the start time for Brain Candy tonight I noticed this on just before it, 11:20pm tonight on BBC2:

Quote from: "BBCi listings"The Magic Roundabout Story: Time Shift
Tue 13 Jul, 11:20 pm - 12:20 am  60mins

BBC FOUR on BBC TWO.

A celebration of the classic children's series.

Created in Paris in the early 1960s by French animator Serge Danot, the original French version of this animated series (Le Menage Enchante - literally "The Enchanted Merry-go-round") featured a cast of characters who spoke with their own voices and plots that were a million miles away from the series that was to become a household favourite on the BBC.

This programme tells the story of how English children's actor Eric Thompson re-voiced, re-scripted and re-interpreted Le Menage for a British (and adult) audience, creating classic characters like Dougal the sarcastic dog, Brian the long-suffering Snail and Ermintrude the batty upper class cow.

The series won over children, grown ups and critics alike. The programme examines how its success transformed the careers of Eric Thompson and British animator Ivor Wood, and how its memory is being kept alive by a new feature film currently in production by Bristol animation team The Bolex Brothers.

Quote from: "The BBC Four site"TIME SHIFT: THE MAGIC ROUNDABOUT
BBC Two Tuesday 13 July 2004 11.20pm-12.20am
   
 For the first time Time Shift tells the whole story behind the success of The Magic Roundabout, the hugely popular children's TV animation programme. Time Shift sources clips from the BBC archive to tell the stories behind this classic series. It also interviews many of the people who helped bring it to the TV screens including Ivor Wood, Phyllida Law, Sophie Thompson and programme makers such as Joy Whitby.

The story begins in Paris, 1963 when a working animator Serge Danot devised and wrote a French children's animation TV programme. He teamed up with Ivor Wood in 1965 in order to complete and produce the original French series; Le Manege Enchante. On selling the first 11 episodes to Ortf, they found that they had a huge hit on their hands but Danot's family and Ivor continued to work in a derelict Parisian house - as its success in France was so immediate (Ivor Wood later became famous for his Paddington Bear, Wombles and Postman Pat creations).

The BBC rejected the French series a couple of times as they felt it was just too weird! But in 1965 they finally agreed to buy the series on the understanding that they would have to change a lot in order that the English would understand it. Eric Thompson (Emma's father) who was a Playschool presenter at the time was asked to voice this weird French series in a particularly British way. The much-loved and often far-fetched stories were recorded off-the-cuff by Eric whose inspired imagination led him to merely turn down the sound on the original French series and make the stories up as he went along. It was an instant success largely due to the fact that it was on just before the 6 O'clock News which attracted a large adult audience who enjoyed the surreal storylines. Many of the charming anecdotes in the programme include stories behind both the French and English characters: Dougal and Ermintrude were said to be comments on French-Anglo relations at the time; the cynical Dougal was based on Tony Hancock; and that the stoned hippy Dylan was based on the American folk singer, Bob Dylan.

Time Shift's story continues as it follows the cultural phenomenon of The Magic Roundabout during the 1970's through to the news in 2003 that Hollywood was planning to turn it into a feature film voiced by Robbie Williams and Kylie Minogue.

The Magic Roundabout continues to this day to be one of the most successful television animation series of all time.

mwude

It's great.  It's been on BBC4 loads of times & I've found it a fascinating watch every time.  It's nicely in-depth, lets all involved have their say, and has some great contemporary footage (I particularly liked all the Blue Peter sections showing you how to make all the characters).  Scotches all the student "it's all about drugs!!" bollocks fairly swiftly & satisfyingly.

I'd never realised that one man - Ivor Wood - was responsible for so many brilliant animations.  Magic Roundabout, Paddington, Wombles, Postman Pat and the often under-rated & ignored 'The Herbs' are all his work.  It's a shame you can't get Dougal & the Blue Cat on dvd yet.  

And thank god that Hollywood version with Robbie & Kylie hasn't happened.

Purple Tentacle

I have an utterly grotesque memory of "Round the Twist" (aussie lighthouse nonsense), which is absolutely not the fault of the show....

...I was about 10 when this was on, and had learned, to my horror, about periods.  If I recall it was from a Cartman-esque discovery in the bathroom bin that led to an awkward explanation.

With this fresh in my mind I watched Round The Twist, in which the teenage girl-one had a doppleganger who she made friends with, but, inevitably, the doppleganger weakened, and faded away, lying on the floor. As she faded away Yoda-style, a tear-drop fell on the now-empty floor where she was lying.... and I assumed that the original girl's period had started, and she was perioding all over this dying girl.

Fucking horrible memory that tainted my enjoyment of the entire series.

How very freudian.

TJ

Quote from: "mwude"It's great.  It's been on BBC4 loads of times & I've found it a fascinating watch every time.  It's nicely in-depth, lets all involved have their say, and has some great contemporary footage (I particularly liked all the Blue Peter sections showing you how to make all the characters).  Scotches all the student "it's all about drugs!!" bollocks fairly swiftly & satisfyingly.

I'd never realised that one man - Ivor Wood - was responsible for so many brilliant animations.  Magic Roundabout, Paddington, Wombles, Postman Pat and the often under-rated & ignored 'The Herbs' are all his work.  It's a shame you can't get Dougal & the Blue Cat on dvd yet.  

And thank god that Hollywood version with Robbie & Kylie hasn't happened.

It is happening, regrettably so...

TotalNightmare

Dangermouse...

Nuff said.

Rubbish Monkey

no ones mentioned Your Mother Wouldn't Like It??? Or the spin off series Palace Hill???

I remember both being fantastic. Palace Hill especially! A piss take of Grange Hill except  attended by Prince William and Prince Harry. All very surreal really.

I wonder what I'd make of them if i saw them now though.

mwude

Quote from: "TJ"
Quote from: "mwude"
And thank god that Hollywood version with Robbie & Kylie hasn't happened.

It is happening, regrettably so...

Oh bollocking christ, you're not lying.  Looking on the bright side at least it may re-kindle general interest in the show & make it more likely that the original series and / or Dougal and the Blue Cat might get a dvd release.

Why Robbie Williams?  He sounds nothing like Thompson's Dougal.  I'm not aware that he has any acting talent, although people with better memories of Robbie the Reindeer might be able to correct me on that.  He's not any kind of name in America if they're hoping for international success.  And presumably most foreign versions would be re-voiced anyway, rather than subtitled.

Stop pissing about with things I love, you film-making bastards.  Parsley looks sad beacuse of this news.


Does anyone remember an ITV Children's Comedy from the 80's starring Bill Oddie called 'Stale Mate'? I don't recall much of the show, other than he was a teacher and one of the pupils was a tough kid who picked on Bill Oddie all the time.  I seem to recall it was quite violent, with this tough kid decking Oddie on numerous occasions.

Jemble Fred

Quote from: "Rubbish Monkey"no ones mentioned Your Mother Wouldn't Like It??? Or the spin off series Palace Hill???

I remember both being fantastic. Palace Hill especially! A piss take of Grange Hill except  attended by Prince William and Prince Harry. All very surreal really.

I wonder what I'd make of them if i saw them now though.

YMWLI gave Tony Slattery work, which is one reason to like it. But I remember Palace Hill as being the worst television programme ever made. Specifically, I recall them using the line 'you talk like a plate of beans negotiating their way out of a cow's digestive system' word for word. Unforgivable.