Zappa Plays Zappa

[BlodwynPig]

Saw Dweezil et al. for the 4th time at The Sage, Gateshead last night. Quite staggering - if you are a Zappa fan (or muso) then this is the show for you.

Each time I've seen them I've said "nothing can top this" only to be proven wrong the next time.

Last night they played mostly less-well known tracks and mixed them up a bit, so we had Country and Western "Harder Than Your Husband", Classical "Strictly Genteel" as well as a fair few from Roxy and Elsewhere, Joe's Garage (the staggering "Outside Now"), Sheik Yerbouti, Freak Out!

These are phenomenal musicians - as would be expected to play some of the stuff they do - Scheila Gonzalez is incredible on sax/keyboards (sometimes at the same time), vocals. Ben Thomas a delightful vocalist, trombone/trumpet/whistle and (last night) armpit soloist! Class right through the band. Dweezil even did a bagpipe solo on his guitar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxoNPg6cv04

[Jackson K Pollock]

Gah, they played in Camden on Saturday and I'd been thinking about going for about a month - but the £35 price tag and not being able to find anyone to go with meant I didn't bother in the end.

I'm kicking myself now!

[Noodle Lizard]

I need to see this at some point, thanks for reminding me.  I'd have thought moving to their hometown would mean it'd be a piece of piss to see them, but evidently they almost never play here.  They're going to fucking Wallasey, though.

Is he still playing with any of Frank's members?

[Don_Preston]

Is he still playing with any of Frank's members?

Only those out on day-release. Arf!

I did actually watch the clip of them do Peaches on the Craig Ferguson show. Incredible but the technology does make it sound rather too clinical for my tastes.

[BlodwynPig]

A guy came on to do Debra Kadabra last night - i think it was the fucking roadie! Incredible stuff.

Then they wheeled on a young English girl for the three encore songs - she played Clarinet and did a stunning improv with Dweezil. Funky as fuck.

Clinical yes, but innovative and funny and sublime also.

[Don_Preston]

Clinical yes, but innovative and funny and sublime also.

Like father, like son. I'm very glad to see he's got some of his dad's mannerisms and on-stage deliveries.

In other Zappa news, I'm listening to the newly-released Road Tapes Vol. 1, of a 68 MOI gig. Absolutely brilliant. I'm waiting for the 1971 Carnegie Hall shows to arrive from Barfko-Swill, despite ordering it at the end of October. One for the Nightmare Deliveries thread elsewhere.

[BlodwynPig]

Like father, like son. I'm very glad to see he's got some of his dad's mannerisms and on-stage deliveries.

In other Zappa news, I'm listening to the newly-released Road Tapes Vol. 1, of a 68 MOI gig. Absolutely brilliant. I'm waiting for the 1971 Carnegie Hall shows to arrive from Barfko-Swill, despite ordering it at the end of October. One for the Nightmare Deliveries thread elsewhere.

I saw a boxed set entitled King of Prussia in Luxembourg - obviously bootleg, but what a nice package - holographic artwork, green vinyl - the lot. 120 euro, probably dodgy quality, so no chance of buying.

[Don_Preston]

I checked Discogs for any info (I'm better with the dates and line-ups rather than bootleg titles). It seems I actually have this show on a double CD-R I ordered from eBay a few years ago. My copy's simply called Deutschelandhalle 1978. It's actually a superb Soundboard gig, from a great line-up (Belew, O'Hearn, Bozzio etc). So I completely recommend it.

I'd send you a copy but I've no idea where mine's gone. It got played an awful lot to a room of disinterested people during my sixth form years.

[The Region Legion]

Without an original member, it all strikes me as a little cold and calculated I'm afraid. Saw them at the North Sea Jazz Festival in 2008 and Ray White was with them (or it could have been Ike Willis... whoever sang Bamboozled By Love basically). It gave it legitimacy, but the music is so precisely recreated it just doesn't have the soul of the original stuff.

So the fact that its just Dweezil plus his mates living off the back of his fathers name is just a little sad really, not to mention that half of them look like frat boys. Not interested.

[BlodwynPig]

Without an original member, it all strikes me as a little cold and calculated I'm afraid. Saw them at the North Sea Jazz Festival in 2008 and Ray White was with them (or it could have been Ike Willis... whoever sang Bamboozled By Love basically). It gave it legitimacy, but the music is so precisely recreated it just doesn't have the soul of the original stuff.

So the fact that its just Dweezil plus his mates living off the back of his fathers name is just a little sad really, not to mention that half of them look like frat boys. Not interested.

What fucking guff. That is a complete joke a proclamation. Well you are just missing out on some of the greatest tunes played to a very very high standard in a live setting. Fuck the legitimacy - I had shivers up my spine and a big smile on my face.

[The Region Legion]

What fucking guff. That is a complete joke a proclamation. Well you are just missing out on some of the greatest tunes played to a very very high standard in a live setting. Fuck the legitimacy - I had shivers up my spine and a big smile on my face.

Additionally, I'm not sure I want to support the people who have tried so thoroughly put a stop to anyone else playing Zappa's music or celebrating him - including people Zappa actually worked with and therefore are legitimate keepers of the crown - despite Frank's own opinions on how his music would live on.

I've heard Frank Zappa play his tunes, albeit not in person, and its a fuck of a lot better than what tours now in his name. A good tribute band is all it is, and I saw one of those too (and that included Jimmy Carl Black).

When they get an original member in again, I'll see them. Simple as that.

[BlodwynPig]

Original member? You mean from The Mothers? or would Moon Unit do?

[Don_Preston]

Only the Soul Giants will do.

[The Region Legion]

Original member? You mean from The Mothers? or would Moon Unit do?

I mean anyone from his touring bands. Hell, even Scott Thunes would almost do for me. Helps when it's a vocalist though, they bring the original voice and feel to it more than a bassist like Thunes would, for example, although Patrick O'Hearn would be great, it amazes me that Belew has never done a tour with them and I'd be all over that, Bozzio seems a logical choice too. Steve Vai might be too big and I expect Dweezil wouldn't want the spotlight taken away from him, but he wouldn't interest me at all. I'd throw my money at them for a Flo & Eddie lineup tour as a one off.

Just seems like a wasted opportunity to have these people still alive but pretend they weren't a major part of why Zappa's music was so good and instead just hire a bunch of nobodies because "My last name is Zappa too so you all have to care!".  The guys who actually made that music could still be doing it, but aren't because of the ZFT trying to ban them (or because they're in jail for being kiddy fiddlers).

[Depressed Beyond Tables]

He treats his dad's music like people treat classical music.

Be careful of the old bullshit argument that gets pulled out over tribute bands and the like. If an orchestra in Australia and and orchestra in the UK play the same dead German guy's music not many people (or none) are online saying how blasphemous it is. Ultimately it's the execution and spirit of the music that should be judged.

Arguing over whether dead or alive people should be playing it is to miss the point. The point is about the impact that his music can have on ears. Besides, there's a good chance those older guys don't want to tour at the level that is required to make it worth touring.

Zappa's music is still relatively unknown and criminally underplayed. Good on Dweezil I say.

[The Region Legion]

Be careful of the old bullshit argument that gets pulled out over tribute bands and the like. If an orchestra in Australia and and orchestra in the UK play the same dead German guy's music not many people (or none) are online saying how blasphemous it is. Ultimately it's the execution and spirit of the music that should be judged.

It's not the same in the slightest. Classical music was never performed by particular people intentionally, it was written to be played by any orchestra from the off. Rock music, even Zappa's music - aside from his actual orchestral pieces -  were not. They are as much about the personalities of the people involved as they are about the music, and if they're still around I just think it's a little self-serving to not involve them. If Dweezil really cared about the legacy, and considering they clearly have the money to mount a pretty serious worldwide tour, then there's no reason not to have a couple of the original band members turn up. If they really tried and couldn't get anyone, fair enough, but I'm not convinced that's the case.

As I said, I've seen them and it came off as clinical even with Ray White there. Compared to Frank and his hand-picked bands they come off as amateurs.

[BlodwynPig]

Bozzio, Vai, Mark Volman, Ponty, Brock, White, and Thunes have all played with ZPZ over the last few years.

[Don_Preston]

Ponty's a surprise. I thought he would've avoided anything Zappa related like the plague.

[Depressed Beyond Tables]

It's not the same in the slightest. Classical music was never performed by particular people intentionally, it was written to be played by any orchestra from the off. Rock music, even Zappa's music - aside from his actual orchestral pieces -  were not. They are as much about the personalities of the people involved as they are about the music, and if they're still around I just think it's a little self-serving to not involve them. If Dweezil really cared about the legacy, and considering they clearly have the money to mount a pretty serious worldwide tour, then there's no reason not to have a couple of the original band members turn up. If they really tried and couldn't get anyone, fair enough, but I'm not convinced that's the case.

As I said, I've seen them and it came off as clinical even with Ray White there. Compared to Frank and his hand-picked bands they come off as amateurs.

I know a girl who worked on the ZpZ tours doing merch and she got to know Dweezil and the band really well. It's not a big money maker.

As for the personnel involved I think you're romanticising it a bit. Even Frank himself was unable to use, or plain didn't want to use certain players live on album tours they played on.

[The Region Legion]

Bozzio, Vai, Mark Volman, Ponty, Brock, White, and Thunes have all played with ZPZ over the last few years.

I know - that's why I didn't see this tour, because it was without any original members at which point it just becomes a tribute band like any other. When they get another original member I'll see it. Simple as.


I'm not talking about album personnel, I'm talking about his live tour bands. If there's someone out there who wants to do it, they should be there doing it. If they don't want to do it but want to tour the music of Zappa with a band of their own, they should be allowed to do so. That's all.

[Noodle Lizard]

If I don't have the option of seeing the real thing, I'm all in favour of a tribute band who can do it properly.

To be honest, there are better Queen tribute bands than the actual Queen right now.

[The Region Legion]

A friend linked me this video a minute ago and it's another examples of why Zappa Plays Zappa misses the point completely:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_ApXjLB00o

[Noodle Lizard]

A friend linked me this video a minute ago and it's another examples of why Zappa Plays Zappa misses the point completely:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_ApXjLB00o

Why does it matter, though?  Nobody's denying that "it's not the same without Frank", but that's not the point.  They're not trying to be better, they just (correctly) assume that people still like the songs and would like to see them played live, which is no easy feat.  Especially if they never got the chance to see Frank do it.

They're not making a whole lot of money from it, either.  I don't understand why it would make someone ... angry?

[The Region Legion]

They're not making a whole lot of money from it, either.  I don't understand why it would make someone ... angry?

Not angry that they do it, just uninterested if there's no one there who actually worked with Frank. Irritated that they do it at the expense of anyone else doing it (or, at least, the attempted expense - it seems Zappanale still occurs and Project/Object can't be stopped either, despite their best attempts). Just not a fan of the Zappa Family Trust generally, and nor is a great portion of the alumni.

[Depressed Beyond Tables]

Dweezil does a bit of conducting at the shows too, I'm sure you're aware of that.

Difference of opinion here. I don't mind too much who's playing Echidna's Arf as long as they nail it.

[doppelkorn]

I saw them in about 2008/2009 at Manchester's Bridgewater Hall and they were fantastic. Apparently they had blown up an amp the previous time so they were just happy to get through the show. Brock was definitely with them then.

Let me add to the voices not giving a fuck if any "original" tour band members are involved.

[Ted-Maul]

I went to see them on Saturday in New Brighton and they were as great as ever. Yeah they still look like frat boys but if Zappas bands over the years taught us anything its the music that matters at the end of the day, not the people playing the music. They even made some funny ad-libs and improvised some music as one guy was getting thrown out...... it was a pretty lively audience by ZPZ standards.

I must also give some love to Scheila Gonzalez. She's amazing. She seemed to have an easier time of it this tour, last time i dont think she got a chance to stop blowing, singing, playing or dancing for the whole show. As i was leaving the theatre when the show had finished, i glanced back at the stage to see her surrounded by adoring male fans all with their arms outstretched trying to talk to her. I smiled and shook my head, i wished i was there with them but im just not that sad.

I was at the same gig in Manchester as you Doppelkorn and I was at the previous Manchester show where the amp blew up.... well something happened to the electrics in the building which fucked Dweezils amp. It was their first tour and Dweezil was kind of just standing there, not knowing what to do, for like 20 minutes whilst about 5 people with screwdrivers all tried to get it working. Somebody shouted from the crowd that he should plug into Steve Vai's amp which was also on stage, but he said that plugging into his amp would be like making love to his wife.

Yes they had Steve Vai on that tour. And Napoleon Murphy Brock. And Terry Bozzio. But they were still finding their feet musically and the songs they played were mostly the broad ones that "everyone loves" such as Montana. Now ZPZ is a tight unit playing a more diverse and interesting set. Of course it would be nice to see the odd familiar face but people like Napoleon Murphy Brock and Vai are over-powering due to their talents and presence.

If they're stopping other people performing FZ's music then i feel that's wrong because i've decided to go to their shows whenever they're near to give the music a chance to be heard. They shouldn't have the monopoly on that music.

[Noodle Lizard]

As i was leaving the theatre when the show had finished, i glanced back at the stage to see her surrounded by adoring male fans all with their arms outstretched trying to talk to her. I smiled and shook my head, i wished i was there with them but im just not that sad.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being that sad.

[The Region Legion]

Grandmothers with Napolean Murphy Brock & Don Preston at the Jazz Cafe in London on Friday & Saturday, with Miroslav Tadic as a little personal bonus. That'll do me.

[Ted-Maul]

Saw these aswell a few years ago, they were great, especially Don Preston. Jimmy Carl Black was the drummer too. They even had Roy Estrada on bass........