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The Beatles are fucking good.

Started by madhair60, December 16, 2012, 10:08:52 PM

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SteveDave

Quote from: Menu on December 24, 2020, 02:49:06 AM
Yes. Lennon brought less to the table than fucking Ringo for this album. Eg the only reason George didn't get All Things Must Pass on it must have been jealousy from Lennon. He's quite derisive about George in some of the recordings as well I seem to remember. Must have been worried he was being overtaken.

I maintain he brought nothing of great worth to "Abbey Road" too. "Come Together" was another 12-bar rock n roll "Ballad Of Jock and Yono" song before Paul suggested swamping it up. "I Want You" is just the same thing over and over. "Because" is based on "Moonlight Sonata" played backwards and "Mean Mr Mustard" and "Polythene Pam" were (at least) a year old. The only song that's anywhere near what Paul and George were bringing was "Don't Let Me Down" and (again) he received a lot of help with it as evidenced in the "Get Back- The Beatles' Let It Be Disaster" book.

Menu


Johnboy

For a while there I was choosing to not listen to them to give other bands a chance but now I can't get enough of them. The more you discover the more you realise you don't know.

Replies From View

Quote from: SteveDave on December 24, 2020, 02:28:30 PM
I maintain he brought nothing of great worth to "Abbey Road" too. "Come Together" was another 12-bar rock n roll "Ballad Of Jock and Yono" song before Paul suggested swamping it up. "I Want You" is just the same thing over and over. "Because" is based on "Moonlight Sonata" played backwards and "Mean Mr Mustard" and "Polythene Pam" were (at least) a year old. The only song that's anywhere near what Paul and George were bringing was "Don't Let Me Down" and (again) he received a lot of help with it as evidenced in the "Get Back- The Beatles' Let It Be Disaster" book.

"Don't Let Me Down" isn't on Abbey Road, either.

SteveDave

Thank you. I meant to include "in 1969" after "what Paul and George were bringing"

There's a steady decline by Lennon from after 'Revolver', the last album where you could say he matched Macca (although it might still be 60-40 McCartney).

daf

Thought this was a bit of fun :

First Broadcast of Sgt Pepper - 12th May 1967 on Radio London

Of particular note is John Peel, sounding like a combination of Smashie and Nicey, slogging his way through daft ads for stock-car racing and pony rides.

famethrowa

Quote from: SteveDave on December 24, 2020, 02:28:30 PM
I maintain he brought nothing of great worth to "Abbey Road" too. "Come Together" was another 12-bar rock n roll "Ballad Of Jock and Yono" song before Paul suggested swamping it up. "I Want You" is just the same thing over and over. "Because" is based on "Moonlight Sonata" played backwards and "Mean Mr Mustard" and "Polythene Pam" were (at least) a year old. The only song that's anywhere near what Paul and George were bringing was "Don't Let Me Down" and (again) he received a lot of help with it as evidenced in the "Get Back- The Beatles' Let It Be Disaster" book.

Righto, I'm hereby taking umbrage at "Because" being written off so glibly. It's a masterpiece of vocal harmony, how can 3 scally lads make a heavenly sound like that? The Moonlight Sonata thing is such a red herring, the chords are totally different and fantastic and very sophisticated. It's not just a ripoff throwaway.


gilbertharding

Does anyone know if the Peter Jackson film is going to be released with the original Let it Be movie - or is that film just going to be airbrushed from history?

daf

According to this article on Super Deluxe Edition . . .
Quote
A fully restored version of the original Let It Be film will be made available "at a later date".

Might be an extra on the Get Back blu ray, or possibly bundled in with a deluxe 'Let it Be' box set - so it'd be available, but only for the die-hard collectors.

Either way, like Diana Ross, it's coming out!

markburgle

Quote from: famethrowa on February 15, 2021, 11:59:21 AM
Righto, I'm hereby taking umbrage at "Because" being written off so glibly. It's a masterpiece of vocal harmony, how can 3 scally lads make a heavenly sound like that? The Moonlight Sonata thing is such a red herring, the chords are totally different and fantastic and very sophisticated. It's not just a ripoff throwaway.

True but you can make the case that those harmonies are really George Martin's work, so again it's John being helped massively over the finish line by someone else.

Don't agree he was in steady decline after Revolver though, as he smashes it on the White Album, bringing the depth and edge while Paul is resorting to a lot of shallow (if still great) genre stuff. Once tried a 14 track edit of that and realised I only had 4 Paul songs on it

Egyptian Feast

Interesting to see this thread get bumped as I've fallen down a Beatles hole myself in the last week. Being a bit of a sad bastard and as an exercise in combating soul-crushing boredom, I set myself the task of listening to all my records from A to Z. I was getting on great motoring through A (ABC to Albert Ayler), despite the brief visit to GG Allin (followed by Altered Images, lol), but I had to slow down when it came to Beach/Beastie Boys and completely stopped at The Beatles. I'm on my third run through the albums now and hugely enjoying the revisit. Some boring thoughts follow on my findings.

Inspired by a viewing of Help! when it came out on video, The Beatles were the first band I got obsessed with. I rinsed most of the post-Revolver albums as a kid, but didn't know much of the early stuff bar the red album until I picked up the ones I didn't have a few years back. I know most of the later albums inside out, so it's the early albums that sound most fresh to me now.

I suppose it's a step backwards from the clearly superior previous album, but Beatles For Sale seems to be my favourite of the early albums (my definition of 'early' being pre-Rubber Soul). I like the kinda weary vibe about it, sounds perfect on a gloomy morning.

Help! is on at the moment and making me want to watch the film again for the first time in years. I didn't realise until recently what an effect it and Yellow Submarine had on my taste in music, movies and humour. The Beatles were my Python before I found Python. I rarely see anyone have a good word to say about it, even fans of Richard Lester's other work. Surely it's not just me who loves it, racist warts and all? It's so much fun!

I wrote Let It Be off on a couple of listens and it still sounds really half arsed a few years down the line. They really should've held onto Abbey Road until they'd got that out of the way. I've never thought The White Album would be improved by being condensed to a single LP - the sprawl is part of the appeal - but there is a case for Let It Be making a truly excellent EP.  Anyone on here given a listen to bootlegs of the complete sessions? Is the stuff on the album truly the best of what was on offer?

daf

Quote from: Egyptian Feast on February 16, 2021, 07:16:43 PM
I wrote Let It Be off on a couple of listens and it still sounds really half arsed a few years down the line (. . .) but there is a case for Let It Be making a truly excellent EP.  Anyone on here given a listen to bootlegs of the complete sessions? Is the stuff on the album truly the best of what was on offer?

I tell you what made me really appreciate Let it Be - listening to Glyn John's cloth-eared track choices - pretty much every one was far sloppier than what ended up on the album.

Non Stop Dancer

Let it be... Naked  is what got me into it. Absolutely love it now.

markburgle

Quote from: Egyptian Feast on February 16, 2021, 07:16:43 PM
Anyone on here given a listen to bootlegs of the complete sessions? Is the stuff on the album truly the best of what was on offer?

From what little I've heard, I would say so. There's a massive list of other songs that were played or attempted during those sessions - all of those performances, without exception, are shoddy and half-arsed. Some barely a few bars long. You can split hairs over which take of I've Got a Feeling is better but that's about it.

I've just finished reading this entire thread because that's what life is like these days - it's interesting how running through the whole thing is a theme of appreciation, or at least discussion, of Wings/solo Paul. Nobody has seen fit to discuss solo John or George. I would guess because there's so much less to say. Those two had no creative ambition after the Beatles, and a discussion of their work just comes down to "which collection of mildly accomplished mid-tempo navel-gazing soft-rock do you find least disappointing?". I'm no fan of solo Paul either, but he made much more of an effort at least.

Retinend

Quote from: Non Stop Dancer on February 16, 2021, 07:51:25 PM
Let it be... Naked  is what got me into it. Absolutely love it now.

I grew up with the illusion that this was the only version that existed. I just accepted that the final Beatles album had this awkward double-name with the ellipsis, it had a silver cover and a stripped-down, acoustic sound. I was unaware that it was a re-versioning. I was only 13 or something.

Even after learning that it was a remix of the "real" Let It Be I wasn't bothered about hearing the black-covered version. "Naked" was the only version of the Beatles' final album I cared about.

I listened to it finally LAST YEAR and it was a real let-down. The silly voices didn't amuse me, the tracklisting seems aimless (not even beginning with "Get Back?" not even ending with "Let It Be"?).... and "Don't Let Me Down" is missing! "Dig It" and "Maggie Mae" were rightfully jettisoned, if you ask me. "Across The Universe", the Beatles song with the most complicated release history, is at its ethereal best on the "Naked" release.

People who grew up with the Spector-produced album lament the loss of the raucous mood, but I prefer the more sombre mood of "Naked". It reflects the career precipice they were at.

"Naked" and specifically "Naked" is, to my mind, the final Beatles album and the the original release should be lost to time, regarded as a mere "first draft", George Lucas-style.

If it is remembered, it should only be in order to go down in history as a case study in the decisive role of the producer in the era of the popstar. Reading the biographies of the band, one gets the feeling that they just presumed that a big producer star like Spector (producer of songs such as the original "Twist and Shout", no less) would turn out a good product - even though the success of the Beatles was at every turn owed to George Martin to the tune of ⅕.

studpuppet

Quote from: Egyptian Feast on February 16, 2021, 07:16:43 PM
Anyone on here given a listen to bootlegs of the complete sessions?

There's a fairly new podcast out called Winter Of Discontent, where the narrator is going through the Get Back tapes. There's no music, but there's lots of discussion about the music and even some exposition about things like chord structures. Quick example from the latest ep: the chord progression in Child Of Nature/Jealous Guy is only one note different from A Day In The Life.

It's pretty exhaustive - it's already four 30min episodes in and Paul has only just arrived at 10.30 on the first day of the Twickenham sessions.

shagatha crustie

I like the original Let It Be. It's no masterpiece but I sort of try to imagine it's the Beatles doing the Band - shonky and imperfect but good fun all the same. I do not like Spector's treatment of Across the Universe but that's my only major complaint.

They made a good point on the Nothing is Real podcast that actually Paul and George wanted a very similar thing around this time (Paul a stripped-down return to basics and playing small clubs, George a more democratic, rootsy setup based on his experiences with The Band), but seemed unable or unwilling to communicate to each other that this was the case.

daf

My recent posts on the Toppermost thread may be of interest here. I included all the songs attempted for the first couple of days, but then just slimmed it down to the Beatles originals for the sake of my sanity!

Twickenham Film Studios
George Quits & Savile Row
The Rooftop & Basement


Retinend

Great writing and scholarship, daf - as I've said before you should collect them together into an e-book.

edit: that said, it works really well with the URL links and the expandable images, so maybe I just need to get used to reading long form stuff on-screen.

daf

Ah, thanks mate - appreciate it!

Next one's coming up soon - and on that topic, does anyone know who played drums on Old Brown Shoe?

Sounds a bit too good to be Paul, but there's now some debate about whether Ringo would have been available due to filming The Magic Christian at this time.

QuoteNoteworthy of mention here is the additional assertion by Kevin Howlett that the drums on the official recording of "Old Brown Shoe" were performed by Paul. While Ringo was indeed in the process of filming the movie "The Magic Christian" at the time, it was primarily filmed on location in London, which would make him available for this evening's Beatles recording session. Upon listening to the late January "Get Back / Let It Be" rehearsals of "Old Brown Shoe," Ringo's drum performances developed quite closely to what we hear on the rhythm track as recorded on April 16th. Paul's rudimentary drum-work, as witnessed on "The Ballad Of John And Yoko," "Dear Prudence" and "Back In The U.S.S.R.," the latter song being a composite of Paul, John and George playing drums by the use of overdubs, appears to not be of the caliber of what we hear on the released "Old Brown Shoe." "Anything I really can't do is 'shuffles,'" Paul himself admitted during a filmed interview in the 1990's concerning his drumming ability. "They're difficult to do. That's just the coordination I can't do...But I can do more of just a straight sort of rock (beat)," which he then demonstrates for the cameras. Therefore, it appears most likely that Ringo broke away from his acting duties to join The Beatles for this April evening's recording session, something George Harrison would undoubtedly have preferred for recording one of his songs.
http://www.beatlesebooks.com/old-brown-shoe

markburgle

Quote from: shagatha crustie on February 17, 2021, 10:22:24 AM
They made a good point on the Nothing is Real podcast that actually Paul and George wanted a very similar thing around this time (Paul a stripped-down return to basics and playing small clubs, George a more democratic, rootsy setup based on his experiences with The Band), but seemed unable or unwilling to communicate to each other that this was the case.

Bit of a stretch I reckon - they were at loggerheads over any notion of democracy. George wanted more say. Paul and John didn't want him to have it. (It's true that John suggested they switch to having 4 songs each per album for the 3 of them, but the fact is John would probably not have turned up to any session devoted to these mooted 4 George songs. Meanwhile Paul refused the notion outright).

Agreeing on a more stripped-down sound seems of little relevance next to a deadlock of that nature.

SpiderChrist

Quote from: daf on February 17, 2021, 12:28:48 PM
Ah, thanks mate - appreciate it!

Next one's coming up soon - and on that topic, does anyone know who played drums on Old Brown Shoe?

Sounds a bit too good to be Paul, but there's now some debate about whether Ringo would have been available due to filming The Magic Christian at this time.
http://www.beatlesebooks.com/old-brown-shoe

Sounds very Ringo to my ears, doesn't sound like Paul at all.

daf

#1194
That's what I thought.

They might have rehearsed with Paul on drums while Ringo was messing about on set, but I'm sure Ringo could have spared an hour or so to perch on the drum-stool after a day's filming.

SpiderChrist

Old Brown Shoe has a double time shuffle that sticks the snare on the off beat and feels counter-intuitive to play (well it does for me anyway). Here's a clip of Ringo playing it without any probs

https://youtu.be/1OBX7E_OV0g


markburgle

It's weird how Across the Universe fell between the cracks like it did. It was recorded at the same time as Lady Madonna and Hey Bulldog, the latter in particular was done very collaboratively. It must be the only example of a fully fledged, quality song not being properly recorded (cos for all the hair splitting about the best version, none of the versions are actually good. They all have the whiff of making the best of a bad job about them)

Retinend


RenegadeScrew

For me it is the simple acoustic version without Spector's shite.  I thought there was a home demo of it but I can't find it.  But take 6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-kDjCi5DP4