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"Cu*t Phenomenon": so bad it's good it's bad it's good et fucking cetera.

Started by Mark Steels Stockbroker, February 10, 2013, 09:02:46 PM

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lazarou

Quote from: Pedro_Bear on February 21, 2013, 07:00:25 PM
It doesn't come across on-screen that way at all. Sure, they like certain ones more than others, and get bored with the lack of action on occasion and kick off, but it doesn't come from a centre of derision. We're not being invited to laugh at a bad film, it's more that we're being invited to laugh at watching one. Who watches this stuff? Oh, we do.

Absolutely this. I think where a lot of the pretenders fail is by coming at these films from a point of near-total snarkiness and derision that really sells the experience short. Pointing and laughing at these kind of things might be the initial reaction from anyone unfamiliar with them, but it's a well that runs dry pretty quickly if that's all you're there for.

Part of the reason I enjoy mst3k is that so much of it is just added-value silliness, with not a lot of focus on beating down the filmmakers or wondering who the hell could enjoy these things. It feels more like they're there to liven things up rather than score cheap points (well, most of the time). Contrast with the TGWTG approach of picking apart every beat of the plot like it's some kind of war crime and then following up with their own, infinitely worse efforts that are beyond reproach because they're "for the fans". "Haha, look at this crazy bullshit" might be a way to get eyeballs on your videos, but it gets tiring fast. That and it's just lazy. If you've had any kind of exposure to trash cinema, you know there's a lot to love there as well, and that's what really keeps you watching more.

QuoteIf they don't have wide appeal, then the words have no meaning. Box office, licenced merchandise, pop culture spoofs - their appeal is as wide as it's possible for films to get. Your point maybe seems to be that because of their niche subject matter, they shouldn't have wide appeal, but reality shows that to not be the case.

I see that kind of thing as just the latest evolution in what blockbuster films have been doing all along. Folks like Roger Corman used to make decent money on the drive-in circuit with hokey sci-fi and monster movies until Lucas and Spielberg took those pulp templates, threw a lot more money and marketing at them and brought them into the mainstream, all but wiping out the b-movie audience. Similarly, people like Michael Bay must have noticed the entrenched fanbases things like Transformers have and realised that if they did the same, they'd be able to grab fanboys and regular audiences alike. Now that they've noticed the moneymaking potential, they've appropriated the comic-con audience wholesale.

Retinend

Quote from: Mark Steels Stockbroker on February 22, 2013, 07:56:16 PMPick the point you want to start from.

erm... okay. To start with, what does "this" refer to in the following sentence?

"This is an important point to make about cult pleasure"

he also starts the 5th long paragraph with "to begin with,"

I don't know... lots of things and it's not worth it to pick apart. If Gervais had written it, on the other hand...

Famous Mortimer

Not sure I have a lot more to add re: my opinion on MST3K, other than if you actually like a film (rather than just be amused by shortcomings in plot, acting, production or whatever) then it's way more difficult to make fun of it. Does anyone seriously think they liked the films that came from Sandy Frank? Or "The Starfighters"?

Anyway, sorry, enough dragging this into the long grass.

Also, I should have mentioned I actually quite like the Twilight films. I mean, they're unlikely to be on my desert island list, but they're pretty good fun (I haven't seen the last two).

I've mentioned this a lot on here, but there was a film called "After Last Season" which generated quite a bit of buzz on some sites when it was released. The rumour was that it was viral marketing for, I think, "Where The Wild Things Are", knocked off by Spike Jonze in a weekend, and a few film sites posted "I can't believe this is real" type messages on seeing the trailer. But it was some truly, wonderfully incomprehensible stuff, but to such a level you can't believe the guy wasn't trying to capture the so-bad-it's-good market.

I twittered with one of the actors in it, and she told me that the director was for real, though. It also seems to have died a death - it's not on any torrent sites, or Youtube, the official site isn't selling DVDs any more...I really can't un-recommend it highly enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpXT9FztleI

is the trailer.


Phil_A

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on February 24, 2013, 11:23:49 AM
I've mentioned this a lot on here, but there was a film called "After Last Season" which generated quite a bit of buzz on some sites when it was released. The rumour was that it was viral marketing for, I think, "Where The Wild Things Are", knocked off by Spike Jonze in a weekend, and a few film sites posted "I can't believe this is real" type messages on seeing the trailer. But it was some truly, wonderfully incomprehensible stuff, but to such a level you can't believe the guy wasn't trying to capture the so-bad-it's-good market.

I twittered with one of the actors in it, and she told me that the director was for real, though. It also seems to have died a death - it's not on any torrent sites, or Youtube, the official site isn't selling DVDs any more...I really can't un-recommend it highly enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpXT9FztleI

is the trailer.

Ahh, dammit. I always meant to grab that, but never got round to it. As you say, all available sources for it seem to've dried up.

Another potential anti-classic that's now impossible to see was One More Time, the final film from b-movie "auteur" Ray Dennis Steckler, the sequel to The Incredibly Strange Creatures That Stopped Living And Became Mixed-Up Zombies(yes, really). It was only sold for a very short time directly from Steckler's website, until he died in 2009, apparently leaving no-one to carry on his business interests.

It did manage to garner a couple of online reviews, one of whom expressed bewilderment that Steckler had seemingly learned nothing whatsoever in his whole lengthy career as a film-maker. Another stated unequivocally it was the worst film they had ever seen.

All thats left is this utterly baffling selection of footage, which is the closest thing it had to a trailer - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K14nHF4IKwA

Watch out for the murder victim visibly chewing the blood capsule in his mouth at 1:40.

Famous Mortimer

The "One More Time" thing winds me up, as I actually emailed his site while he was still knocking about and asked re: postage to the UK, and he had the temerity to die before replying.

I might have a go at uploading "After Last Season" to Youtube, though.

SteveDave

I watched The Room for the first time last night. Incredible.

Why did they put tuxedos on? I thought it was going to be for the party but then, the party happened ages afterwards.

How did that tape he just happened to have in his pocket last so long recording (I'm presuming) phone-calls for 2 or 3 days?

And then why was it right at the start of the tape when he put it in the tape player?

Why were there so many shots of San Francisco?

What's wrong with his face?

Who did Lisa remind me of? At first I thought it was the youngest daughter in Family Ties but it's someone else. Gah.

Famous Mortimer

Quote from: SteveDave on February 25, 2013, 11:06:42 AM
I watched The Room for the first time last night. Incredible.
Agreed.

Quote from: SteveDave on February 25, 2013, 11:06:42 AM
Why did they put tuxedos on? I thought it was going to be for the party but then, the party happened ages afterwards.
Wedding rehearsal, I think.

Quote from: SteveDave on February 25, 2013, 11:06:42 AM
How did that tape he just happened to have in his pocket last so long recording (I'm presuming) phone-calls for 2 or 3 days?

And then why was it right at the start of the tape when he put it in the tape player?
What about, why was his answering machine one of those gigantic 80s tape players that I used to have when I was a kid?

Quote from: SteveDave on February 25, 2013, 11:06:42 AM
Why were there so many shots of San Francisco?

What's wrong with his face?

Who did Lisa remind me of? At first I thought it was the youngest daughter in Family Ties but it's someone else. Gah.
Your guess is as good as mine about these.

Also, you didn't mention the world's greatest blow-job face, so you've got at least one gem to reward a rewatch.

Famous Mortimer

Quote from: Phil_A on February 24, 2013, 10:08:01 PM
Ahh, dammit. I always meant to grab that, but never got round to it. As you say, all available sources for it seem to've dried up.

Well, it seems to have worked - watch and enjoy here!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGFweILgBGw

acrow

a torrent of one more time is available on a tracker that rhymes with zinemageddon.

thought it was open signup at the mo. it's not. don't have any invites. sorry bout that.


imitationleather


lazarou

Sure, sent you a PM. That's a couple accounted for, two more left if there's anyone else who needs 'em.


lazarou

No worries, sent you the details. If anyone wants the last one, just PM me an email address to make it out to and I'll get it sorted.

Edit: That's all of 'em except for Phil_A's sent. Be sure to check your spam folders if you haven't got them yet.


remedial_gash

Quote from: Glebe on February 18, 2013, 02:23:08 AM
I'd hold up The Swarm and Pieces as examples of films which are genuinely so bad they're fucking hilarious.

I've yet to see 'The Swarm', but 'Pieces' is a genuinely a fun romp, certainly within the context of it's genre (early eighties slasher).

It has tits, gore, twists, and some shit dubbing. It's not fucking boring like the room; and Simón also made Slugs, which is a much poorer film than 'Pieces' - but by no means shite.

Oh, and I have 5 invites going for the above mentioned naughty place. Just PM email addresses and shit.

Gash
x

Famous Mortimer

Cool As Ice

I watched this again recently, thanks to Rifftrax, and it's still a corker. Vanilla Ice's career died at some point between this film being greenlit and released, I reckon - but it's a garish, pointless film about a rapping bike gang who break down in a small town. A weird old couple offer to help fix it, but in the few days they're there, Vanilla successfully romances a high school valedictorian, turns the local kids on to rap music and successfully protects someone in witness protection from two crooked cops.

I think there are more montages in this film than any other, ever. Oh, and it was cinematographed by the guy who went on to do Schindler's List and loads of other huge films.

Famous Mortimer

Quote from: Phil_A on February 24, 2013, 10:08:01 PM
Ahh, dammit. I always meant to grab that, but never got round to it. As you say, all available sources for it seem to've dried up.

Another potential anti-classic that's now impossible to see was One More Time, the final film from b-movie "auteur" Ray Dennis Steckler, the sequel to The Incredibly Strange Creatures That Stopped Living And Became Mixed-Up Zombies(yes, really). It was only sold for a very short time directly from Steckler's website, until he died in 2009, apparently leaving no-one to carry on his business interests.

It did manage to garner a couple of online reviews, one of whom expressed bewilderment that Steckler had seemingly learned nothing whatsoever in his whole lengthy career as a film-maker. Another stated unequivocally it was the worst film they had ever seen.

All thats left is this utterly baffling selection of footage, which is the closest thing it had to a trailer - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K14nHF4IKwA

Watch out for the murder victim visibly chewing the blood capsule in his mouth at 1:40.
So, as I think the whole world should get a chance to see it, I'm uploading it to Youtube now.

http://youtu.be/AzRap9mx2Ls




Famous Mortimer

"After Last Season" was taken down, which is a bit of a bummer. I hope all 4 people in the world who'd not seen it and wanted to were able to - Phil_A, looks like you were the last. It's weird, in that it's presumably just the one guy, they never did anything else, the website just diverts to the old website about the film, and it's not available to buy anywhere at all...

Well, that might be the reason. I like to imagine he made it in a weird fever dream and when he finally came to, months later, he'd released it to four cinemas and sold about 20 copies on DVD. He's got some super-normal job and is desperate that no-one finds out he made maybe the most bizarre, aggressively bad film of all time?

acrow

for anyone in london who is interested, the prince charles cinema is screening pieces next month. i will be there. fuck yes.

Phil_A

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on March 05, 2013, 11:09:05 PM
"After Last Season" was taken down, which is a bit of a bummer. I hope all 4 people in the world who'd not seen it and wanted to were able to - Phil_A, looks like you were the last. It's weird, in that it's presumably just the one guy, they never did anything else, the website just diverts to the old website about the film, and it's not available to buy anywhere at all...

Well, that might be the reason. I like to imagine he made it in a weird fever dream and when he finally came to, months later, he'd released it to four cinemas and sold about 20 copies on DVD. He's got some super-normal job and is desperate that no-one finds out he made maybe the most bizarre, aggressively bad film of all time?

Ah, damn. Not to worry, I've just found it on a certain private torrent tracker which may've already been mentioned on this thread.

It's worth stressing the absolute oddness of this film. It was like someone recorded an amateur drama group improvising conversations about the most mundane subjects they could think of, incorporating props made of anything they could find lying around. And then tried to assemble it into some kind of narrative.

I don't think I've ever seen another film in which so little effort has been spent to convey any sense of location. The scenes set in the "hospital" with much attention paid to an MRI scanner which is clearly a pile of boxes covered in paper. The conversation that takes place in an office which is filmed in such a way you can see it's just a couple of flat walls set up on a stage. After a while, you start to think it must be deliberate - all the obvious fake props and the framing of scenes that makes it clear they're not taking place in any kind of real location is pure Brechtian audience alienation technique. Was Mark Region just Brecht-trolling everyone the whole time?

Lets just say if it eventually comes out that it was all an elaborate prank, I would not be the least surprised. I just don't know how you could make a film like this by accident.

Here's another weird bit of trivia from imdb: The distributor who sent out the prints to the only four cinemas that ever screened the film instructed them to burn the prints rather than send them back, as it was "cheaper". I think they knew what they were doing.

Famous Mortimer

I did a review of it, and exchanged emails with one of the women who was in the film as a bit of research. She was not only remarkably kind about me thinking the film she'd done was mental, but gave me a few stories which illustrate what an odd experience it was to work on too. The main woman in the film is wearing huge shirts, sizes too big for her - this is due to them shooting in a freezing cold warehouse, and not bothering to cover it with a "wow, is it cold" line of dialogue.

Also, Region would apparently just start the camera rolling while actors were sitting around and demand they start acting immediately - which bummed me out, because there's no way anyone could give a decent performance in those circumstances, and someone like her (Casey McDougal, one of the supporting people in it) now has this on their resume for ever. She said he certainly seemed for real on the set, so if this is a prank it's a really good one.

Oh, have you checked out the website yet? www.afterlastseason.com - the idea that it is some experiment will not be lessened by visiting there. The clips, the special effects...

Alberon

'Plan 9 From Outer Space' has become the 'Del Boy falling through the bar' of bad films. I can understand why, it topped the list of the Golden Turkey Awards (a book in 1980 by film critic Michael Medved and his brother Harry).

It's also easy to watch. Being a fan of MST3K you get to see many films which are far more technically inept, such as the classic 'Manos: The Hands of Fate' for example. Plan 9, is relatively big budget and while the plot is silly, some (but not all) of the acting is entertainingly bad, and some of the dialogue can't help but raise a grin, the basic filming is done reasonably well. Facts like its supposed star, Bela Lugosi, actually dying well before actual filming on Plan 9 started and then being played by a taller chiropracter who looked nothing like him only adds to the reasons to label this one the worst.

'The Room' is worse than both of the above by how it is inept on every level, not just script and some acting like in Plan 9. I can't find it now, but I'm sure I've read something somewhere from the MST3K crew where they say the very worst films of all are not the Plan 9s which are made with some passion if not talent, but the soulless TV movies of the week which are competently shot, competently written, competently acted and so one, but which no one involved with it actually cares about the project.

Mark Steels Stockbroker

Quote from: Alberon on March 06, 2013, 09:04:43 AM
I'm sure I've read something somewhere from the MST3K crew where they say the very worst films of all are not the Plan 9s which are made with some passion if not talent, but the soulless TV movies of the week which are competently shot, competently written, competently acted and so one, but which no one involved with it actually cares about the project.

This is why I find there's something terribly sad about TV movies - the sense of so much effort going in to something utterly forgotten. The haunting thought "maybe someone really believed in this... once".

There is also the factor (possibly overlapping with the "hauntology" business mentioned elsewhere) that TVMs are the stuff you usually see as a kid when either (1) off school sick, or (2) the last few days of the holidays, when TV has gone back to normal after Christmas or whatever, and you'll be back at school in a few days, trying to remember what it was like not to be under a timetable. So I associate them with feelings of sadness that way.

Mark Steels Stockbroker

Quote from: Phil_A on March 06, 2013, 02:13:59 AM
I don't think I've ever seen another film in which so little effort has been spent to convey any sense of location. The scenes set in the "hospital" with much attention paid to an MRI scanner which is clearly a pile of boxes covered in paper. The conversation that takes place in an office which is filmed in such a way you can see it's just a couple of flat walls set up on a stage. After a while, you start to think it must be deliberate - all the obvious fake props and the framing of scenes that makes it clear they're not taking place in any kind of real location is pure Brechtian audience alienation technique. Was Mark Region just Brecht-trolling everyone the whole time?

I've not seen this film but I do want to now, simply because the way you've described it sounds awfully like a joke/experiment. The stuff about starting the film without warning reminds me of 2 stories about the way Mark E.Smith tried to get more spontaneity and uncertainty from his guitarists: (1) by turning off the amp randomly during gigs, so the player comes back angry and confused, (2) by giving deliberately incorrect directions to the recording studio, so when they eventually arrive their performance is angry and confused (this last is probably bullshit, as he told it himself in an interview).

Don_Preston

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on March 06, 2013, 07:27:55 AM
I did a review of it, and exchanged emails with one of the women who was in the film as a bit of research. She was not only remarkably kind about me thinking the film she'd done was mental, but gave me a few stories which illustrate what an odd experience it was to work on too. The main woman in the film is wearing huge shirts, sizes too big for her - this is due to them shooting in a freezing cold warehouse, and not bothering to cover it with a "wow, is it cold" line of dialogue.

Also, Region would apparently just start the camera rolling while actors were sitting around and demand they start acting immediately - which bummed me out, because there's no way anyone could give a decent performance in those circumstances, and someone like her (Casey McDougal, one of the supporting people in it) now has this on their resume for ever. She said he certainly seemed for real on the set, so if this is a prank it's a really good one.

Oh, have you checked out the website yet? www.afterlastseason.com - the idea that it is some experiment will not be lessened by visiting there. The clips, the special effects...

I watched the trailer and read the review. It reminded me of, and is certainly better than, Inland Empire.

Famous Mortimer

I watched the MST3K-ised "Monster-A-Go-Go" the other night, and I think it's even worse than "Manos" (although it's a close race). It's even more shoddily made, and when virtually the entire cast is switched out halfway through - they ran out of money in 1961, and the new director finished it off in 1965 - it's really difficult to fathom what's going on.

And the ending, where it seems to be just footage of emergency services setting up in virtual darkness...and the actual ending! Damn, this film sucks. I just discovered that the MST guys think this was the worst film they ever did, and no argument from me.

Phil_A

Quote from: Don_Preston on March 10, 2013, 09:08:15 PM
I watched the trailer and read the review. It reminded me of, and is certainly better than, Inland Empire.

No, trust me, it really isn't. Even if you don't like Lynch, you can't deny he's an experienced film-maker who knows how to frame shots, direct actors, etc. For all his quirks he's still immersed in the familiar language of film, which the director of ALS is either totally ignorant of, or just chooses to completely ignore.

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on March 13, 2013, 08:21:24 AM
I watched the MST3K-ised "Monster-A-Go-Go" the other night, and I think it's even worse than "Manos" (although it's a close race). It's even more shoddily made, and when virtually the entire cast is switched out halfway through - they ran out of money in 1961, and the new director finished it off in 1965 - it's really difficult to fathom what's going on.

And the ending, where it seems to be just footage of emergency services setting up in virtual darkness...and the actual ending! Damn, this film sucks. I just discovered that the MST guys think this was the worst film they ever did, and no argument from me.

Oh man. Monster A-Go-Go has to be the dreariest, greyest nothing of a film ever made, with possibly the worst cop-out ending in history. Even with Joel & the bots it's a trial to get through, you can tell they were genuinely suffering in that one.

Famous Mortimer

Don, "After Last Season" is available via a torrent site, apparently, but if you struggle I'll send you a copy of it. It's worth a watch, for sure.

My favourite bit of "Monster-A-Go-Go" (except for that copout ending, which I've co-opted for my user text) is the phone ringing, which is just someone off screen going "brrrrng". I've seen that film like 5 or 6 times, and that sound effect never fails to make me laugh.

It's even worse than those films I'd consider the absolute dregs of what MST3K covered - "Starfighters" (a US Air Force training video turned movie) and "The Sidehackers" (sidecar racing film which turns into a rape-revenge movie). Hell, even Coleman Francis' output seems like the work of a depressed, drunk, slightly brain-damaged Bergman compared to "Monster-A-Go-Go".

kngen

I can never see the name Coleman Francis without summoning up the image of him splayed out on an army bunk, with the MST3K commentary:

QuoteYour auteur, ladies and gentlemen!

Need to get a DVD of Red Zone Cuba - haven't watched it in years.