Die Hard

[SteveDave]

There's a new film. I won't be seeing it because without the tuft of hair Bruce isn't McClane.

I like to watch 16 Blocks & imagine that's Die Hard 4.

Aaaaaand I notice in my local Sainsbury's to tie in with the new Die Hard film they've reissued the others in new shiny sleeves EXCEPT 3 (which is the 2nd best one). Why is this?

Anyone?

[monkfromhavana]

I'm not interested after the first two.

My favourite bit of the franchise is where Al Leong steals a Nestle Crunch bar whilst waiting to gun down the S.W.A.T. team in the first film.

[brat-sampson]

What? Even though the 3rd is so much more fun than the 2nd?

I've no hopes for the new 5th(!) one but will probably wind up seeing it with friends who like that kind of thing, even when it's pretty shite. I had a re-watch of the original the other day and it still hold up brilliantly.

[spock rogers]

I was gonna go and see the new one but it's cut in the UK, so they can get to fuck if they think they're getting any of my money now.

During post-production, the distributor sought and was given advice on how to secure the desired classification. Following this advice, certain changes were made prior to submission

This work was originally seen for advice in an unfinished form. The company was advised that the film was likely to receive a '15' certificate but that their preferred '12A' classification could be achieved by making a number of cuts to both language and visuals. When the finished version of the film was submitted for formal classification, edits had been made to reduce the number of uses of strong language (both 'f**k' and 'motherf***er') and to reduce sequences of bloody violence, including blood sprays when characters are shot in the head, and punches to restrained individuals. The formal submission was consequently rated '12A'.

[brat-sampson]

Bleh, so much for this being of any value then. I'll oppose the trip suggestion harder than I expected to now.

[Noodle Lizard]

They cut Die Hard 4 as well, didn't they?  Ugh.  I mean a 'Die Hard' movie sharing the same rating as the 'Harry Potter' flicks?  Fucksake.

I mean, I know lower ratings = more money etc., but the first two were rated 18 and they did alright, and you've got that huge franchise name to fall back on.  Likewise, recent 18s such as 'Django Unchained' have done proper good at the box office.  But the fact that with a lower rating you can't even say the famous catchphrase (not without some stupid diagetic censoring anyway) makes it pretty obvious that those making the films don't give a single fuck about the integrity of the franchise, or the die-hard 'Die Hard' fans. 

Gruber's cunt.

[monkfromhavana]

What? Even though the 3rd is so much more fun than the 2nd?

I've no hopes for the new 5th(!) one but will probably wind up seeing it with friends who like that kind of thing, even when it's pretty shite. I had a re-watch of the original the other day and it still hold up brilliantly.

I like Die Hard 2: Die Harder.  It's a bit ropey but i like it. Die Hard 3 spoils the formula.

[El Unicornio, mang]

They cut Die Hard 4 as well, didn't they? 

Yes, but it was cut for the US as well (incidentally, I watched a documentary the other night called Cleanflix about companies in Utah in the mid 2000s that distributed cut versions of R-rated movies. Why anyone would want to watch Goodfellas with all the swearing, sexual references and violence cut out is beyond me, but there's a big market for them among Mormons http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1007026/). This new one is only being cut for the UK. I actually like the 4th one, but I also think the 2 is better than 3. It's good, I just prefer them when they're set at Christmas and have more of a claustrophobic feel.

[Mister Six]

I saw the trailer over a mate's shoulder at work and got all excited thinking it was RED 2. Seeing that it was a Die Hard film was a major disappointment.

That said, I still kind of liked Die Hard 4, but that's the point where it really turned into a generic action treadmill. McClaine can throw himself out of speeding cars without being ripped to pieces, the setpieces are BIGGER BIGGER BIGGER, and it's lost the claustrophobia and cleverness that made the series stand out.

Die Hard 5 looks really rough, though - nothing in that trailer made it look like anything other than the most generic action movie ever, McClaine looks like he actually enjoys running around shooting stuff now (rather than being a reluctant hero who gets the job done because no-one else can) and the guy who plays McClaine's son is one of those super generic Hollywood hunks whose face is so symmetrical and perfect that he's actually incredibly boring to look at. They usually keep his kind trapped in mediocre TV shows. God knows how he's broken free.

[QDRPHNC]

Haven't seen 4. 3 was entertaining, but didn't feel like a Die Hard film. Just watched the first one again a little while ago, still holds up very well.

[Jack Shaftoe]

I read somewhere the original script for 4 wasn't even a Die Hard film at all, just a generic techno-thriller that the producers realised they could bolt the Die Hard name onto, rewrite to fit and put out for a lot more money.

Quite a twisty story to Die Hard even becoming a film in the first place, as it's an adaptation of a sequel to a novel, which was itself adapted, starring Frank Sinatra.

From Wikipedia:

Times called it, "A ferocious, bloody, raging book so single-mindedly brilliant in concept and execution it should be read at a single sitting." [2]

Nothing Lasts Forever, a sequel to Thorp's earlier novel The Detective, was written with the intention of being adapted into a film sequel to the film adaptation of The Detective, which starred Frank Sinatra. When Sinatra turned down the offer to star in the sequel, the story was altered to be a stand-alone film with no connections to The Detective. Other changes included the older hero of the novel becoming younger, the hero's daughter becoming his wife, and the American Klaxon Oil Corporation becoming the Japanese Nakatomi Corporation.

The novel's tone is darker and more serious than the film's, and the novel's politically motivated fighters became thieves pretending to be terrorists in the film. Director John McTiernan states on the DVD commentary that the change from a tale of political terrorism to a heist film was made because he wanted to bring "joy" to the story, rather than having the villains be overly ponderous; he also liked the notion of Cold War-era terrorists throwing aside their beliefs in pursuit of capitalist spoils. The newly built corporate headquarters of 20th Century Fox, Fox Plaza in Los Angeles, was used for exterior shots of the Nakatomi building.

[Gulftastic]

The problem with the sequels is that nothing can match the feel good ending of the first when Sgt Al Powell realises he can kill again.

[SteveDave]

According to the commentary by the writer on 3, that was originally not a Die Hard film. People say it was meant to be a Lethal Weapon film but those people are WRONG.

[Mark Steels Stockbroker]

I read somewhere the original script for 4 wasn't even a Die Hard film at all, just a generic techno-thriller that the producers realised they could bolt the Die Hard name onto, rewrite to fit and put out for a lot more money.

Die Hard 2 was also an adaptation of a novel about hi-jackers seizing an airport. A hot topic in the 70s.

For me, there is a clear increase in quality 1->2->3, the last being very nearly perfect apart from having to use a few nonsensical coincidences to patch the plot. 4 started ok but I lost interest when I realised the lady villain was only middle-management and it was a generic yank techno-crook in charge.

The original Die Hard was at the time part of a new wave of Hollywood getting all smart & self-aware, and everybody having a knowing smirk about it. Alan Rickman was happy to say that, yeah, serious actor and all he was happy to do the gig. See also: Robocop.

[Noodle Lizard]

Y'know a similar but underappreciated film?  'The Last Boy Scout'.  It had the cheaply-amusing humour, silly weird-accented villain, and of course a late-80s[nb]by which I mean 1991[/nb] Bruce Willis.  Anyone else like it?

[SteveDave]

Y'know a similar but underappreciated film?  'The Last Boy Scout'.  It had the cheaply-amusing humour, silly weird-accented villain, and of course a late-80s[nb]by which I mean 1991[/nb] Bruce Willis.  Anyone else like it?

I'm putting both my hands up. Anything Shane Black related is awl-right with me. Apart from that shoe-horned in "If I get through this I'm gonna dance a jig" bit. Awful.

I also love Hudson Hawk.

[Jack Shaftoe]

Wait, so 2, 3 AND 4 weren't originally written as Die Hard films? Crikey.

Very excited Shane Black's writing and directing the new Iron Man film, will hopefully bring a return to form.

[Dead kate moss]

Die Hard 1 wasn't written as a Die Hard film either. (Seriously)

It was originally conceived as a vehicle for Beaker from The Muppets. (The joke bit)

[Mark Steels Stockbroker]

It's the same with Star Wars. George Lucas had some old scripts lying around and he rejigged them in to a trilogy.

[Obel]

It's all true. Die Hard 5 is the first Die Hard film specifically written to be a Die Hard film... Odd, that!

It looks like a horrible crock of shit. As has already been said, John McClane needs to be world weary, dragged into the situation against his own will. What the fuck is he doing in Russia? Why do we care about his son? If they carry on the franchise with Jack McClane as the main character it'll be disgusting.

I watched Die Hard 1 in the cinema last week and it's still a stone cold classic. I never really liked Die Hard 2, though I like the TV edited clips you can find on Youtube - "Yippee ki yay Mister Falcon!"

Watched Die Hard 3 on Sunday and I think it's easily on par with the first. I don't care that the formula was changed, John McClane was still the same guy, the action is ridiculously exciting, Sam Jackson's character is great and it's funny as fuck.

Die Hard 4 was an atrocity. Timothy Olyphant is probably the worst person getting acting jobs. Guy has no charisma.

[Kane Jones]

I'm putting both my hands up. Anything Shane Black related is awl-right with me.

Indeed.  The Last Boy Scout is a joyously noisy, violent gag fest.  The dialogue is fantastic.  Shane Black is great, and I really enjoyed Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, although I feel this may have been where Robert Downey Jnr got the fast-quipping wise-ass character for Tony Stark from, and I find Stark to be one of the most fucking annoyingly arrogant screen cunts for years.  So I do hold Black partially responsible for that.  Stark's flirtacious, quippy bantery bits with Pepper Potts are some of the most irritatingly clever-clever exchanges of dialogue in any film ever, made only bearable by the fact that you can scarcely hear it because they're talking so fucking fast. 

I think they got the idea from Mel Gibson and Rene Russo in Lethal Weapon 3 and just went to town with it.  I think it's really awful shit, personally.

[holyzombiejesus]

I would fuck Bruce Willis,
if I had a fanny.
And I'd fuck Han Solo, too,
but we both know that I can'nae.

[Gulftastic]

Watched Die Hard 3 on Sunday and I think it's easily on par with the first. I don't care that the formula was changed, John McClane was still the same guy, the action is ridiculously exciting, Sam Jackson's character is great and it's funny as fuck.

Die Hard 4 was an atrocity. Timothy Olyphant is probably the worst person getting acting jobs. Guy has no charisma.

BIB I think that's an advantage. They aren't just remaking the first two to decreasing returns.

And 4 would have been massively improved if Maggie Q had been the main villain and been allowed to live for longer.

[Mark Steels Stockbroker]

I never really liked Die Hard 2, though I like the TV edited clips you can find on Youtube - "Yippee ki yay Mister Falcon!"

[wanker]It's important to place the politics of DH2 in its historical context: it is referencing the 80s world of CIA shady dealing with nasty Latin American dictators, who were acceptable to cold-blooded cold warriors like Oliver North and their cohorts. As the baddies attempt to fly away at the end they delightedly declare that they are carrying on with the Noriega-ish buddy as a force against communism. These men are so deranged in their anti-communist bloodlust they are prepared to commit atrocities on US territory. The true patriot McClane blows them away. Liberal ideology thus washes its hands of business south of the Mississippi, job done. In a post-9/11 world the tale would be different tenuous thread of reasoning breaks down at this point[/wanker]

Die Hard 4 was an atrocity. Timothy Olyphant is probably the worst person getting acting jobs. Guy has no charisma.

The bit where they do a "Michael Jackson used to be black!" joke is the point where someone should have been directed to get a new career outside the creative industries.

[Noodle Lizard]

I'm putting both my hands up. Anything Shane Black related is awl-right with me.

Yeah, as far as I'm concerned he was almost single-handedly responsible for that era of cop films and it hasn't been bettered (to my knowledge).  Damon Wayans had some great lines in that particular film.

"Oh shit, we're being beaten up by the inventors of Scrabble!"

[Noodle Lizard]

I really enjoyed Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, although I feel this may have been where Robert Downey Jnr got the fast-quipping wise-ass character for Tony Stark from

Yes.  And it's also the personality he's carried over into his "real-life" public persona (interviews and such).  I've always thought it was a shame that Shane Black never gets the credit for essentially launching his career as we know it - most of yer 'Iron Man' fans are probably completely unaware that he had more than two decades of acting and a wholly different public persona preceding it.

[Jerzy Bondov]

Either Commando was originally Die Hard 2 or Die Hard was originally Commando 2, isn't that right? You know what I'm on the internet, I'll just look it up.

Die Hard was originally Commando 2. Also the country Val Verde from Commando is mentioned in Die Hard 2, so that means the films take place in the same universe. The petition for a cross-over, Matrix vs. McClane, John vs. John starts here.

[Dead kate moss]

The Die Hard script had been knocking around long from before Commando. It was going to star Frank Sinatra.

[Mark Steels Stockbroker]

Also The Bodyguard was going to be Steve McQueen and Diana Ross.

Furthermore: JFK was going to be about a plot to kill President Eisenhower, but the conspiracy was recycled with a different Commander-in-Chief.

[Johnny Townmouse]

Die Hard is a literary adaptation.