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(actual) Obscene Films

Started by Noodle Lizard, April 02, 2013, 04:53:40 PM

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BlodwynPig

Christ. Bleakest thread. Not coming in here again.

Lyfjaberg

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on April 02, 2013, 10:38:38 PM
I wouldn't advise anyone to watch it, I was "clinically fed up" for a week after and it annoys me that it's become just another one of those 2 Girls 1 Cup viral vids.

Margie Atwood's Oryx and Crake proposes a middle-of-next-week world where online exhibitionism includes all forms of sadism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oryx_and_Crake#Allusions.2Freferences_to_popular_culture

I don't think we're that far off. The sharing of child pornography is, I assume, pretty widespread. I bet there's something of it streaming somewhere.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: BlodwynPig on April 02, 2013, 10:50:48 PM
Christ. Bleakest thread. Not coming in here again.

Yeah, let's not get too bogged down in the old reality.

Has anyone seen Swap.avi, by the way?

Pube


DukeDeMondo

Quote from: Johnny Townmouse on April 02, 2013, 07:14:55 PM
I have written on Mondo films and the mythology of snuff movies (in fact there was an academic conference on this subject just last year), and that has taken me down some dark paths. The worst, for me at least, is the footage of the Dagestan massacre which is a depressing and jaw-dropping killing of Russian teen soldiers by the Chechen militia. It is unrelentingly bleak.

Yes. I've been writing a thesis on Mondo and Death Film for the past three and a half years, the open word document is na-na-ing away there at the bottom of the screen, but sometimes you've seen and considered enough of that sort of thing for an evening. Or a week. So you go and read other folk talking about it on the internet.

I think a lot of the mondo films are absolutely incredible, and are about far, far more than gawping at weirdos or head-wounds or fannies and balls. I wouldn't say the same for the death films that followed, but there are often fascinating things at play there, too. I can totally understand why folks seek this sort of stuff out - especially earlier films like Africa Addio or Savage Man, Savage Beast and what have you, which are among the greatest documentaries ever made. Having said that, by the time I'm done I'll have been looking at it all for just over four years, and that's as much time, I think, as I want to be spending with it. The mixtape style atrocity compilations, anyway. Done with those bastards.

The question of whether any of those materials are obscene or not is something I've sort of lost track of, and couldn't begin to answer.

The grottier end of the fictional stuff, like August Underground or Chaos or what have you, I find much less interesting than their mainstream counterparts of the same period. Chaos, for example, is as repugnant a piece of work as ever I've seen, but of the two straight remakes of Last House on the Left that came out in the past few years, that is by far the least thought-provoking, memorable, and significant, however often it wants to squeal "knife rape!!!!!" in our faces.

The last AU thing I saw was Murder Collection, which seemed a novel idea, but completely pointless.

Of the Guinea Pigs, Mermaid in a Manhole is an absolute masterpiece. Truly incredible and the only one I've ever watched more than once out of choice.

zomgmouse

Pasolini's Salò - does that count?

Johnny Townmouse

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on April 02, 2013, 09:34:13 PM
Well yeah, because you're talking about genuine footage of real people being really killed as opposed to films. 

Oh, you mentioned the Guinea Pig films in your original post which I assume are 'real' footage rather than fictional movies. Many films, such as documentaries, feature people being killed (Bus 174 for example).

EDIT: Turns out that the Guinea Pig films are those Japanese gore films - for some reason I thought they were films of the poor little critters getting killed, like the scene in Men Behind the Sun but with lovely furry balls of fun.

QuoteOf course the former's worse than the latter.

I wouldn't agree with that, but I guess it depends on your definition of 'worse'. Many fictional films have disturbed me a great deal more than footage of real killings.

QuoteThey still haven't found any actual snuff movies, have they?  In the true definition of the word (i.e. a filmed murder for the purpose of sale).

David Kerekes' Killing for Culture is both a marvellous account of Mondo and Death in cinema, but also does a great job of exploding the snuff myth, which many still believe is true.

On the subject of obscene films, I guess some of the cinema of transgression material would count - Richard Kern's in particular. Fingered is pretty unpleasant.

DukeDeMondo

Quote from: Johnny Townmouse on April 03, 2013, 01:51:13 AM
Oh, you mentioned the Guineau Pig films in your original post which I assume are 'real' footage rather than fictional movies. Many films, such as documentaries, feature people being killed (Bus 174 for example).

The Guinea Pig films are fictional. Although the effects in the 2nd one were convincing enough for a spooked Charlie Sheen to report it immediately to the police. Given that he was watching it at a party, and presumably off his last fuck on god knows what - since anyone sober would have noted that genuine footage of actual murders rarely contain POV shots and what have you not - I can only assume he wasn't particularly popular with that particular crowd of people for a while.

Johnny Townmouse

Quote from: DukeDeMondo on April 03, 2013, 01:59:53 AM
The Guinea Pig films are fictional. Although the effects in the 2nd one were convincing enough for a spooked Charlie Sheen to report it immediately to the police. Given that he was watching it at a party, and presumably off his last fuck on god knows what - since anyone sober would have noted that genuine footage of actual murders rarely contain POV shots and what have you not - I can only assume he wasn't particularly popular with that particular crowd of people for a while.

Quite right - see my edit above.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: zomgmouse on April 03, 2013, 01:37:55 AM
Pasolini's Salò - does that count?

Yes, sort of, but it doesn't feel right listing that next to things like Guinea Pig or August Underground which are just exercises in shock and gore FX.  Salo's as worthy a film as any other "classic", if you ask me.

John Waters has a good little clip where he talks about obscene films:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ruexq2HSfGE

Noodle Lizard

Has anyone seen 'Begotten', some black and white film about God disembowelling himself?

acrow


Noodle Lizard

Quote from: acrow on April 03, 2013, 04:12:42 PM
yep.

artsy guff. it's great.

I think that's what was putting me off - too self-indulgently artsy.  Screened in a Soho basement with people wearing berets and touching each other's nipples over their clothes.

Don_Preston

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on April 03, 2013, 04:16:36 PM
Screened in a Soho basement with people wearing berets and touching each other's nipples over their clothes.

Sounds like my sort of night!

DukeDeMondo

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on April 03, 2013, 03:33:10 PM
Has anyone seen 'Begotten', some black and white film about God disembowelling himself?

I think it's brilliant. It's been rendered over-familiar by every Marilyn Manson video that was released atween Smells Like Children and Mechanical Animals, but still. If Susan Sontag dug it, it's worth watching. And it's a fuck of a lot better than that misogynist pile of shit he made afterwards.[nb]Shadow of the Vampire, if you're interested.[/nb]

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: DukeDeMondo on April 03, 2013, 04:42:29 PM
I think it's brilliant. It's been rendered over-familiar by every Marilyn Manson video that was released atween Smells Like Children and Mechanical Animals, but still.

A few of which the same guy directed, right?

DukeDeMondo

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on April 03, 2013, 05:09:30 PM
A few of which the same guy directed, right?

Yeah, that's what I mean. There are sequences in Begotten that are plundered shot for shot in, for example, his video for Cryptorchild. Having been exposed to those since whenever, bits of Begotten itself may lose a bit of their power.

Noodle Lizard

I hate Marilyn Manson and wouldn't mind seeing him catch a really horrific cold.

But he was in the process of making what might well have been a pretty obscene film about Louis Carroll.  It actually looked quite good from the trailer (despite the whinging goth voice over), though it's now been indefinitely postponed.  Here, have a look:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsnVN6QnW-4

DukeDeMondo

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on April 03, 2013, 05:21:59 PM
I hate Marilyn Manson and wouldn't mind seeing him catch a really horrific cold.

But he was in the process of making what might well have been a pretty obscene film about Louis Carroll.  It actually looked quite good from the trailer (despite the whinging goth voice over), though it's now been indefinitely postponed.  Here, have a look:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsnVN6QnW-4

Cheers, I'd never seen that. A fair bit of Franju in there, also. Is that your wee lass Cole he's bangin' about?

Tuesday

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on April 03, 2013, 03:33:10 PM
Has anyone seen 'Begotten', some black and white film about God disembowelling himself?

I opening scene of 'God' mashing his insides up put the shits right up me. It's fucking FACE.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: Tuesday on April 03, 2013, 07:17:45 PM
I opening scene of 'God' mashing his insides up put the shits right up me. It's fucking FACE.

Maybe I should see it after all.  It always came off like something you might have seen in 'Destricted', which was just plain pants.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: DukeDeMondo on April 03, 2013, 05:42:08 PM
Cheers, I'd never seen that. A fair bit of Franju in there, also. Is that your wee lass Cole he's bangin' about?

Yeah, Lily Cole and apparently his (at-the-time) squeeze Evan Rachel Wood.  And Tilda Swinton.  Seems like it'll never see the light of day now, though that trailer makes it seem like a lot has been shot for it.

I really like the "complete darkness except for the illuminated action" style and use it myself whenever I can in little short films.  I should learn the proper name for it.

El Unicornio, mang

There are a lot of videos of Mexican drug cartels torturing and killing their rivals online these days. I try to avoid them as they're fucking horrible but I did have a "dark night" a few weeks ago and watched one where there were three guys, and then a few blokes with axes who proceeded to hack to death two of the guys while the one on the middle sat there screaming and wetting himself because he knew he was next once they'd finished. I think that's my last time watching any of that stuff. I actually don't disapprove of those videos being circulated as I think we need to know the reality of these things (descriptions just can't convey it) but I've seen enough of them now.

Johnny Townmouse

Yeah, it's basically a form of masochism, and I generally come away from viewing that sort of material feeling incredibly depressed. That sounds like a petty emotion compared to the horrors being experienced by the people in the videos, but it is a strong feeling of deep melancholy all the same.

That video, plus a recent Mexican one which is just a mayhem of axing and throat slicing of men and women at the same time, plus then the now infamous chainsaw video, really just make you feel fucking terrible, rather than angry.

Lyfjaberg

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on April 03, 2013, 08:19:16 PM
I actually don't disapprove of those videos being circulated as I think we need to know the reality of these things (descriptions just can't convey it) but I've seen enough of them now.

I reckon kids need to understand mortality and the importance of following social rules. I say we make primary schools screen this stuff to start every term.

"This is what happens if you try to screw over the mob, children."

Noodle Lizard

I'm with you on not getting those videos taken down from the net (which is impossible anyway).  It certainly puts things into perspective and reminds you that people can be genuinely nasty nasty in a way that reading a news story can't do.  On the other hand, it's worth remembering that the vast majority of people aren't that way.

Still, try telling me that a few minutes after watching 3Guys1Hammer, at which point I would have happily signed a petition to declare war on the entire Ukraine.

El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: Lyfjaberg on April 03, 2013, 09:03:52 PM
I reckon kids need to understand mortality and the importance of following social rules. I say we make primary schools screen this stuff to start every term.

"This is what happens if you try to screw over the mob, children."

Not to mention: "these are the people your cocaine/heroin habit will be funding."

mcbpete

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on April 02, 2013, 11:04:23 PM
Yeah, let's not get too bogged down in the old reality.

Has anyone seen Swap.avi, by the way?
There's a bloody hilarious account of the origins and blow by blow (or turd by vomit) review of that one on Something Awful - http://www.somethingawful.com/d/horrors-of-porn/horrible-saga-swapavi.php

DukeDeMondo

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on April 03, 2013, 07:34:19 PM
I really like the "complete darkness except for the illuminated action" style and use it myself whenever I can in little short films.  I should learn the proper name for it.

Have you seen Phillippe Grandrieux's Sombre? It's a been a few years, but I remember quite a lot of it looking like that. Bleak as all fuck, an all.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0166808/

Thomas

BlodwynPig's right, a thread full of bleak. Interesting, though, naturally.

I too have seen the previously mentioned and tastefully titled '3Guys1Hammer' video. A friend sent it to me with no description. Horrible, horrible stuff. The video, not the friend. But also the friend.