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Lazy songwriting techniques

Started by alan nagsworth, April 21, 2013, 11:08:45 PM

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Quote from: Noodle Lizard on April 22, 2013, 07:56:39 PM
Actually, you know what?  I'm just going to say it.

The fade-out.  Fucking finish writing your song, ya dicks.  You manage to do it when you perform them live[nb]though it would be very funny to see a band pulling off a fade-out live[/nb], so do it on the records too.

here's curtis mayfield doing that very thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4QglEbgON9o#t=170s

olliebean

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on April 22, 2013, 07:56:39 PMthough it would be very funny to see a band pulling off a fade-out live

Holst did it, by having his female chorus in a separate room and slowly closing the door. You got a problem with Holst?

Jerzy Bondov

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on April 22, 2013, 07:56:39 PM
Actually, you know what?  I'm just going to say it.

The fade-out.  Fucking finish writing your song, ya dicks.  You manage to do it when you perform them live[nb]though it would be very funny to see a band pulling off a fade-out live[/nb], so do it on the records too.
I thought about posting this one but earlier I was listening to Heroes and, first song, Beauty and the Beast, absolutely incredible, fades out at the end. So fuck off basically :-)

alan nagsworth


non capisco

The best fake fade-out is Elvis Costello's disturbing and obsessive 'I Want You' where all the instruments fade out but Costello's cracking, choked voice is still left high and loud in the mix as if the band are deserting him along with the song's subject. It still creeps me out a bit and I've listened to it hundreds of times.

My nomination for this thread is the line 'if loving you is wrong I don't wanna be right'. I used to work next to a man who solely liked the most insipid 90's R&B music imaginable and every CD he owned had a track with that line on. I would amuse myself by imagining all the bands he liked were singing to their nans.

Natnar

Singers who always go on about having their backs to the wall.

checkoutgirl

#66
Songs asking people to "not fade away" are widerife. There's a fair few songs called "Don't Fade Away" too. 34 years I've been on this planet and I don't think I've ever seen anyone fade away, except in films. I suppose it must be a metaphor for depression or something. Still a fucking cliche though.

doppelkorn

Modern rappers rhyming the same word at the end of a line. Looking at you Kayne West.

There are two minimum criteria to fulfil when writing rap lyrics.

1. The word at the end of the line has to rhyme.
2. It can't be the same as the last one.

WesterlyWinds

Vapid imagery/metaphors that are so general that they end up as vacuous statements about nothing. Although I suppose that's more poor song writing, rather than lazy necessarily. A pretty good example that I only have the misfortune to know by working in a bar when it first came out and thus having it drilled into my head endlessly:

"I feel so close to you right now
It's a force-field
I wear my heart upon my sleeve, like a big deal
Your love bows down, I mean surround me like a waterfall
And there's no stopping us right now
I feel so close to you right now"

Katy Perry (or whoever writes her songs) is similarly guilty, especially in songs like Firework. And anything Lily Allen has ever sung, too. Easy targets, perhaps, but having them drilled into your head so often that you memorise every lyric and find yourself subconsciously singing along is awful. Especially when someone who is there and loving every minute of it sees you singing and sort of smiles, as if you are having some sort of shared experience of bliss. Cunts.

NoSleep

Quote from: doppelkorn on April 23, 2013, 12:47:24 PM
There are two minimum criteria to fulfil when writing rap lyrics.

1. The word at the end of the line has to rhyme.
2. It can't be the same as the last rhyme.

Corrected

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: doppelkorn on April 23, 2013, 12:47:24 PM
Modern rappers rhyming the same word at the end of a line. Looking at you Kayne West.

There are at least two songs in which Mike Skinner rhymes the word "phone" with the world "phone".  More than once.

jake thunder

1) Already said, but yes, the chord sequence 1,5,6,4 can fuck right off.

2) Uplifting songs about being like fireworks, stars, a youngster, tungsten or whatever.

3) Four chords wonders where the melody repeats the same thing over each chord. And yes, changing the melody on the last chord means you still suck.

4) Those songs where there's a man or a woman or a child singing over musical instruments.

Subtle Mocking

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on April 23, 2013, 01:45:08 PM
There are at least two songs in which Mike Skinner rhymes the word "phone" with the world "phone".  More than once.

Wasn't Mike Skinner's 'thing' that he wasn't a very good rapper? His flow was generally all over the place too.

checkoutgirl

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on April 23, 2013, 01:45:08 PM
There are at least two songs in which Mike Skinner rhymes the word "phone" with the world "phone".  More than once.

Beastie Boys - Pass The Mic

Everybody rappin' like it's a commercial
Actin' like life is a big commercial

Cleverly rhyming the word 'commercial' with 'commercial' there. Apparently this mistake was left in the album as a joke, still, much as I love the Beastie Boys (and I do), they are responsible for some of the most shockingly bad lyrics in history.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: Subtle Mocking on April 23, 2013, 01:55:47 PM
Wasn't Mike Skinner's 'thing' that he wasn't a very good rapper? His flow was generally all over the place too.

It'd certainly explain a lot, if this complete disaster is anything to go by:  http://youtu.be/7xQe45qdv1c?t=2m43s
It sounds like someone who's never rapped in their life being pressured to freestyle at a shit party.

If it is all just some kind of parody, it's pretty impressive that he managed to "get in" with so many sincere rappers.

Kane Jones

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on April 23, 2013, 02:13:58 PM
It'd certainly explain a lot, if this complete disaster is anything to go by:  http://youtu.be/7xQe45qdv1c?t=2m43s
It sounds like someone who's never rapped in their life being pressured to freestyle at a shit party.

If it is all just some kind of parody, it's pretty impressive that he managed to "get in" with so many sincere rappers.

I always thought it was meant to be.. 'funny'.

Blinded By The Lights was a great song though.

Questions, questions, questions in lyrics - one of the worst offenders is that "oh tell me why / do we build castles in the sky" thing from a few years ago.

Christ, I don't know, it's your song, you tell me!


Neville Chamberlain

Quote from: xxxx xxx x xxx on April 23, 2013, 03:30:09 PM
Questions, questions, questions in lyrics - one of the worst offenders is that "oh tell me why / do we build castles in the sky" thing from a few years ago.

Christ, I don't know, it's your song, you tell me!

Quite apart from anything else, we don't build castles in the sky. It's impossible to build any form of structure - fortified or not! - without firm foundations. And any scientist or structural engineer will tell you that the sky simply does not offer anything even approaching the necessary firmness!

Famous Mortimer

Quote from: Neville Chamberlain on April 23, 2013, 04:06:58 PM
Quite apart from anything else, we don't build castles in the sky. It's impossible to build any form of structure - fortified or not! - without firm foundations. And any scientist or structural engineer will tell you that the sky simply does not offer anything even approaching the necessary firmness!
YOU ARE RUINING THE BEAUTIFUL LOVE METAPHOR

Kane Jones

Quote from: Neville Chamberlain on April 23, 2013, 04:06:58 PM
Quite apart from anything else, we don't build castles in the sky. It's impossible to build any form of structure - fortified or not! - without firm foundations. And any scientist or structural engineer will tell you that the sky simply does not offer anything even approaching the necessary firmness!

I don't mean to be a difficult cunt, but isn't that the point of this metaphor?  Why do we build our love on weak foundations?  I mean it's shit, but I get what she was saying.  In other words; 'Why do we start relationships with people we know won't last?"

Don_Preston

Quote from: Kane Jones on April 23, 2013, 04:24:17 PM
In other words; 'Why do we start relationships with people we know won't last?"

To see the look on their face when you promise them an airborne fortress, or a house in Radstock.

Neville Chamberlain

Yes, I get the whole metaphor thing, but my point is you can't even begin to build anything in the sky!!! The metaphor would have more credibility if it was something about building castles on, say, a flood plain. You could still build something, but it wouldn't last long.

Anyway, I refuse to discuss this further. I got a B in O-Level Geography and you're probably not even 18.

Neville Chamberlain

Quote from: Kane Jones on April 23, 2013, 04:24:17 PM
In other words; 'Why do we start relationships with people we know won't last?"

What you mean like forming a relationship with a very old person?

Oh God, look what I've started - the point is, lyrics that keep asking whiney questions suck!

How about that over-embellished soulful singing style - whoa yes it is....whoa yes I do" etc that people like Marti Pellow like to stick on the end of every line of every song.  Not sure if that counts as a songwriting technique or not but it can fuck right off.

jake thunder

Yeah, Marty Pello's sooo ubiquitous these days. It's a real big problem. Jeez.

jake thunder

Quote from: Neville Chamberlain on April 23, 2013, 04:30:18 PM
Yes, I get the whole metaphor thing, but my point is you can't even begin to build anything in the sky!!! The metaphor would have more credibility if it was something about building castles on, say, a flood plain. You could still build something, but it wouldn't last long.

Anyway, I refuse to discuss this further. I got a B in O-Level Geography and you're probably not even 18.

"You can build shit in space. Don't need foundations in space. Orbital mechanics."
Carly Ray Jespens 2013

ThisIsHardcore

Powerchords. Fucking powerchords.

It's bearable if there's another guitarist playing lead over the top or whatever, but when you have two guitarists playing the same powerchords, that's fucking lazy. I don't care if it's "punk rock", it's fucking predictable.

Birdie

Quote from: WesterlyWinds on April 23, 2013, 01:17:07 PM

Katy Perry (or whoever writes her songs) is similarly guilty, especially in songs like Firework.

I quite like Firework but it jars when she 'rhymes' 'oh - oh- oh' with 'sky- ai- ai'.  No excuse.

But vapid imagery - any song every written for American Idol eg No Boundaries[nb]But Kris Allen?  Yeah, I would :)[/nb]

"With every step, you climb another mountain
Every breath, it's harder to believe
You'll make it through the pain, weather the hurricanes
To get to that one thing.

"Weather the hurricanes."  Dear oh dear.

Jerzy Bondov

Lots of songs from the last couple of years have a chorus that has proper words for two or so lines, then they run out of ideas and just go 'whoa whoa whoa' or sometimes 'oh oh oh oh' for a bit. Like it was a placeholder while they came up with more lyrics but then they went to the pub instead. Katy Perry, Kesha, One Direction all have more than one song that does this and I know there are more.