PC Gaming - Patronise a Newbie

[Bored of Canada]

Fallout and Fallout 2 came before Fallout 3.

But they are all old and that.

Yeah, 'Fallout' is my personal favourite of all the series but I wouldn't recommend games like that to people who didn't play them back in the day.
Fiddly, buggy and looks like arse by todays standards. Plus, it was an open world RPG with a time-limit.

Christ. What a mess. Love it to bits though, but I think Fallout 3 and New Vegas are better starting points. 

Same reason I couldn't get into Deux Ex. People always talk about the amazing amount of choice in that game, but forget that you mainly spend your time hiding in super low-resolution vents and being forced into either really shitty and unintuitive combat or really shitty and unintuitive stealth.  I mean, I can definitely appreciate the game, but I'd prefer to hear people's nostalgiac memories of the game as opposed to actually sitting down and playing the bastard.

In terms of gameplay, it's very similar to the other Telltale Games titles (and nothing wrong with that) but the way you affect other characters is impressive.

Yeah, I mean, it feels like the gameplay's not the main draw really. All the effort's been placed directly into the writing and characters. The sheer amount of dialogue options and moments that come back to haunt you are fantastic. Plus, it's only 3 pound. 

[Johnny Townmouse]

Incidentally, I saw Geoff Dyer give a talk about Zona, where he touched upon Stalker's cultural impact – someone raised computer games, which he completely dismissed. Personally, I thought it was very indicative of a rather old-fashioned view of games.

Funnily enough I did exactly the same thing at a conference and just as people were falling alseep I started talking about the game which woke them all up. As I mentioned before, the patch to turn the main character into the Stalker from the film is marvellous. Dyer's views on Stalker are banal to say the least.

[RickyGerbail]

Yeah, 'Fallout' is my personal favourite of all the series but I wouldn't recommend games like that to people who didn't play them back in the day.
Fiddly, buggy and looks like arse by todays standards. Plus, it was an open world RPG with a time-limit.

Christ. What a mess. Love it to bits though, but I think Fallout 3 and New Vegas are better starting points. 

Same reason I couldn't get into Deux Ex. People always talk about the amazing amount of choice in that game, but forget that you mainly spend your time hiding in super low-resolution vents and being forced into either really shitty and unintuitive combat or really shitty and unintuitive stealth.  I mean, I can definitely appreciate the game, but I'd prefer to hear people's nostalgiac memories of the game as opposed to actually sitting down and playing the bastard.

Yeah, I mean, it feels like the gameplay's not the main draw really. All the effort's been placed directly into the writing and characters. The sheer amount of dialogue options and moments that come back to haunt you are fantastic. Plus, it's only 3 pound.

- the time spent in vents varies a lot, depending on the playing style you choose. I played with a lot of non-combat skills and probably spent about 5% of total gaming time in them (or less now that i think about it, the whole vent thing just isn't true). They're all low res compared to todays standards i'll give you that, but even with high resolution vents Deus Ex:HR managed to be incredibly boring and uninspired.
- The combat in Deus Ex is fine, i'm not sure what you mean when you say that it's counter intuitive.
- The writing is not the main draw but it's certainly way better compared to todays standards in RPG's.
- The stealth is fine as well, if you don't make noises and stay out of the line of sight of the opposition you stay undetected. It's not Thief level stealth but then nothing is.


Regarding Fallout, there's been a lot of bug fixes over the years so you're not going to have a buggy experience playing it. The graphics are fine, it's what they depict that is the important part and it's a rich and interesting world.

I'd say the following games are classics in terms of more involving pc games:

Fallout 1-2
Jagged Alliance 2
System Shock 2 (still the best RPG/FPS hybrid made, it blows all the competition out of the water, including the first deus ex. If you want atmosphere, this will give it to you in spades)
Civilization 4 (shoulders recommended Civ 2 for some reason, but it's not a good game in comparison. Civ 3-5 are all better games)
Baldurs Gate 2 (the ultimate sprawling fantasy rpg)
Theif 2 (The ultimate stealth game)

All of these were released in the late 90's/early 00's, before PC gaming was raped in the anus by publishers and casual gamers. There's a reason that Kickstarter campaigns made by the companies who made these games have recieved several millions in funding recently, games like these have simply not been made for over a decade.

[Johnny Townmouse]

Wow, looks like Fallout 3 and Windows 7 really hate each other. The game collapses every time I try to start a new one, and looks to be a common problem.

Anyone know a fix before I go off and spend the next three hours trawling through forums?

[Zetetic]

Might you have a quadcore[nb]Seems plausible given an i5, I think.[/nb]?
Try this.

Oh, and of course: welcome to one of the most satisfying - if perhaps not the most fun - experiences in PC gaming.

[Hank Venture]

Have you played BioShock? If not, I recommend that. One of my favourite PC games ever I think.

[Johnny Townmouse]

Might you have a quadcore[nb]Seems plausible given an i5, I think.[/nb]?

I'm afraid I have no idea (don't hate me!).

Try this.

That looks like it will work, but doesn't.

Oh, and of course: welcome to one of the most satisfying - if perhaps not the most fun - experiences in PC gaming.

I certainly have my evening sorted out!

[Zetetic]

Hmm. I'm pretty much back on obvious guesses (try Compatibility Mode) or trawling through forums too I'm afraid.

[Johnny Townmouse]

I guess this is what comes of not having a PC that looks like Darth Vader's head.

Edit: Well that was fun. There are roughly 3,000 solutions to this problem, most of them involving the types of tech gymnastics that would take me days to sort out. Trying to find out how to get a refund from Steam now.

[HappyTree]

There are, I believe, a couple of games that don't work properly with the wireless controller but do work with the wired. (Yes, this is insane.)

(I use a couple of wireless controller without problems generally, though.)

The best $9.99 you'll ever spend:

http://xpadder.com/

Gamechanging.

[Johnny Townmouse]

OK, I got Fallout 3 to work finally!

The art design on this game is really incredible - I really like the 50s/Archie McPhee/Shag aesthetics a lot.

It's quite a busy game and I find it quite disorientating and confusing (if someone could tell me why Ctrl+L is a good idea for crouch I would love to hear it), but I think that is explained by my general lack of experience with games in general, but this type of game specifically. I assume that the answers I give have a fundamental impact on game-play, for instance.

[Cohaagen]

You can re-map the keyboard from default settings so that crouch is simply Ctrl using the settings menu. Also, you can create hotkeys for your preferred weapons (or chems) through your PipBoy. Bring up the PipBoy using Tab, go to your inventory screen, and holding any one of the 1-thru-9 keys click the item to bind it to that key.

[Johnny Townmouse]

Thanks - I didn't realise that!

At the moment I am taking everything I can - including scrap metal - with the idea that I can use it down the road.

[AsparagusTrevor]

It's good to stock up but be warned, carrying too much has its own problems, like causing you to lose the ability to run.

[Ignatius_S]

...The art design on this game is really incredible - I really like the 50s/Archie McPhee/Shag aesthetics a lot....

Count me in as a fan.

...if someone could tell me why Ctrl+L is a good idea for crouch I would love to hear it...

1 – You're a slightly smaller target to hit.
2 – Shooting accuracy is increased a smidgen.
3 – Crouching is basically sneak move; you move more quietly and can remain hidden more easily.
4 – If you're crouched and unseen by an enemy, if you attack them and hit, there's get a massive damage bonus (*tip* aim for the head).
5 - If you're playing a sneaky type of character, it fits!

... I assume that the answers I give have a fundamental impact on game-play, for instance.

Yes – but if varies; small effects are small, some none (more to with just the roleplaying interaction). Personally, I just go with what sort of character I want to play.

One thing I would advise is to pump some points into speech – there are some dialogue options that are only open if you speech skill is a certain level, if you have a particular skill or a stat point level; but it's the speech skill that opens up the most dialogue options.

...At the moment I am taking everything I can - including scrap metal - with the idea that I can use it down the road.

That's a good idea – items to look out for in particular, have a high price to weight ration (e.g. cigarette packs).

Any other questions, feel free to ask. Also, there are many good guides out there but when I first played, I hadn't bothered with them – one result was that I chose a few skills that weren't that useful, but this made very little difference to the game and they did suit my character. Another result was that I happily wandered the wasteland and just enjoyed the game. With game guides, btw, sometimes the advice (e.g. character builds) is a matter of opinion so don't take it as gospel (that said, it's more likely than not, still good advice.)

[Johnny Townmouse]

Count me in as a fan.

These games are so expensive, and therefore need to appeal to as many people as possible, that I sometimes feel that the design and storylines becomes very generic and broad. Fallout 3 has a clear and engaging aesthetic.

1 – You're a slightly smaller target to hit....

Oh no, I meant the use of Ctrl+L to crouch is such a fiddly and unintuitive set of keys to press at a time when you often want to crouch behind a car because someone is shooting you all up in your face.

Yes – but if varies; small effects are small, some none (more to with just the roleplaying interaction). Personally, I just go with what sort of character I want to play.

Well, I am playing this with my Wife so at the moment I am a very nice redhead.

One thing I would advise is to pump some points into speech – there are some dialogue options that are only open if you speech skill is a certain level, if you have a particular skill or a stat point level; but it's the speech skill that opens up the most dialogue options.

Great stuff - I couldn't work out if everyone at the party at the beginning are being dicks because I kept the charisma setting at 5, or if that is an unchanged part of the plot.

That's a good idea – items to look out for in particular, have a high price to weight ration (e.g. cigarette packs).

Nice one! Cheers for your help. It's odd going from a fairly simple shoot-em-up to something that requires so much nuance.

[Johnny Townmouse]

It's good to stock up but be warned, carrying too much has its own problems, like causing you to lose the ability to run.

Am I just being gradually slowed down, or is there a point where the game tells me that running is impossible. I could google this of course...

[mikeyg27]

Am I just being gradually slowed down, or is there a point where the game tells me that running is impossible. I could google this of course...

I can't remember if there's a gradual slowing down or not but there's definitely a point at which the game will shout YOU ARE OVERENCUMBERED and even walking around suddenly becomes a tedious chore.

[Johnny Townmouse]

Thanks. The scrap metal is starting to look a bit unnecessary...

[Ignatius_S]

...Oh no, I meant the use of Ctrl+L to crouch is such a fiddly and unintuitive set of keys to press at a time when you often want to crouch behind a car because someone is shooting you all up in your face....

Which had been answered... sorry! *hangs head in shame*

...... I couldn't work out if everyone at the party at the beginning are being dicks because I kept the charisma setting at 5, or if that is an unchanged part of the plot....

They're just dicks – and they won't be the only ones. Charisma gives a boost to speech and barter skills and IIRC, it also affects how NPCs are disposed to you – Karma and how you behave in a conversation also affects that.

With these type of games, making sure your speech isn't too shabby is always the way to go, IMO.

I can't remember if there's a gradual slowing down or not but there's definitely a point at which the game will shout YOU ARE OVERENCUMBERED and even walking around suddenly becomes a tedious chore.

Yup, there's that point – up to that, there's no change to how fast you can move.

Thanks. The scrap metal is starting to look a bit unnecessary...

It does have its uses – but something that you'll come across a lot. Personally, I'll often make a note where stuff is and come back to if – I'm quite a hoarder in these games!

[Ignatius_S]

...Yeah, I mean, it feels like the gameplay's not the main draw really. All the effort's been placed directly into the writing and characters. The sheer amount of dialogue options and moments that come back to haunt you are fantastic. Plus, it's only 3 pound.

Sorry, I was more commenting on how they've produced something substantially different with the same kind of gameplay – and absolutely agree about the effort that's gone in.

Funnily enough I did exactly the same thing at a conference and just as people were falling alseep I started talking about the game which woke them all up. As I mentioned before, the patch to turn the main character into the Stalker from the film is marvellous. Dyer's views on Stalker are banal to say the least.

Oh, it's such a common view but it's shame to be so dismissive. I can't really comment too much about what he thought about Stalker – the talk was really about his relationship with the film and I thought there was some interesting stuff to that. Although I got a copy of Zona, I have a stack of unread books – I know you weren't keen on it, but I bought a copy for the friend who introduced Stalker to me (it's her favourite film) and she absolutely loved it!

[syntaxerror]

Thanks. The scrap metal is starting to look a bit unnecessary...

The fallout 3 wiki is a pretty comprehensive guide for the game, maybe even a bit overwheming (and has walkthroughs for dirty cheaters) - one thing it is useful for is checking what items are useful (e.g to sell or make into a weapon) and worth hanging onto. hope that helps.

[Johnny Townmouse]

Oh, it's such a common view but it's shame to be so dismissive. I can't really comment too much about what he thought about Stalker – the talk was really about his relationship with the film and I thought there was some interesting stuff to that. Although I got a copy of Zona, I have a stack of unread books – I know you weren't keen on it, but I bought a copy for the friend who introduced Stalker to me (it's her favourite film) and she absolutely loved it!

I really dislike the prose of Zona, and think it is a massive opportunity missed. I suspect this is because I am also obsessed with Stalker and have amassed a huge amount of research material and trivia and intertextual details, and found Dyer's book to be insular, self-absorbed and lacking rigour. It tells me little about the film, and even less about being obsessed or in love with a film.

The fallout 3 wiki is a pretty comprehensive guide for the game, maybe even a bit overwheming (and has walkthroughs for dirty cheaters) - one thing it is useful for is checking what items are useful (e.g to sell or make into a weapon) and worth hanging onto. hope that helps.

Jesus, that wiki is nutty detailed. I am going to try and persevere without reading around the game - although I was interested to see that some otherwise innocent looking cleaning powder can be used to make explosives!

[Hank Venture]

These games are so expensive, and therefore need to appeal to as many people as possible, that I sometimes feel that the design and storylines becomes very generic and broad. Fallout 3 has a clear and engaging aesthetic.

Dude, Bioshock. When you're done with Fallout 3, in about three months.

[Cohaagen]

Got my new PC up and running yesterday. It's about the cheapest respectable gaming rig I could get without going for shoddy non-brand components: FX-6300 six-core @ 3.5GHz[nb]which is apparently a very capable overclocker, so I might keep an eye out for a good fan[/nb], a 7770 graphics card with 1GB memory, 8GB 1600MHz RAM, 2TB hard drive, and Windows 7. I was lucky enough that someone was throwing out an old 17" flatscreen monitor so I got that for nowt too, which will do me until I can get something better. Nothing spectacular, but bear in mind that this is going from a 2.8GHz P4 with 1.25GB RAM, a 512GB 8500GT PCI (not even PCI-e) graphics card, 70GB hard drive, XP, with a 17" CRT monitor, so for the first time since my 486 DX2-66 in 1995 I've a half-decent PC.

Here's my shopping list for future purchases:

Silent Hunter 5
Xenonauts
Dead Space
Far Cry 3
Mass Effect
The Bioshocks (all of them)
Deus Ex: Human Revolution

I've also gone back to the Stalker series, Silent Hunter 3 & 4 and Fallout 3/New Vegas and the difference in performance is incredible, almost like a new game.

Based on these choices does anyone have any recommendations for things I might have missed in the last six or so years? I like Fallout-style RPGs but fantasy settings (ie. 98% of the genre) are a major turn-off for me, though the enthusiasm for Skyrim on here might persuade me otherwise. Military simulations also, although I think the last time they were in vogue was about 1998, and the odd first-person shooter. I really wanted to love X2 but it never really grabbed me, though I'm still on the lookout for a good space exploration/trading/combat sim.

[El Unicornio, mang]

You might like the Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War games. They have quite a few expansion packs too.

[Ignatius_S]

Yeah, the Warhammer 40K ones are worth looking at - with the original series, I would advise either Dark Crusade or Retribution, either give a good election of races but are a bit too similar to recommend both.

As for space exploration/trading/combat sim - it's Star Citizen that you want, my friend. The alpha build will be launched later this year. In the meantime, there's the X3 series - haven't played them myself.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of Skyrim - I got my monies' worth and got a lot of hours accrued, but I really didn't find the campaign very interesting and didn't both finishing it. I think The Witcher series is more interesting - only played the first one, but will be playing the second, which got rave reviews. It's less of an open-world experience and more story-based with not character variation, but I found the first story rather interesting. One element I liked, which caught me off guard is, is that there are no completely 'good' or 'bad' decisions - all the decisions will have negative and positive consequences. so choices are grey, rather than black and white. However, that's something some people really don't like. If placing it within a specific fantasy genre, then it would be best to consider it as dark fantasy.

Although it does't come under any of the types that you mentioned, I really can't recommend Crusader Kings II - I was going to post about it here as it happens. Basically, it's grand strategy crossed with soap opera and games can cover 400 years, from the 11th Century. Your character is the head of noble family - the lowest title is a count and goes up to emperor - if your character dies, you take over as your heir, but if there isn't one, then it's game over.

The game is more about the journey than the destination - although there's a scoring system, you set what sort of game you want to play and what you're trying to do. For instance, you could start an Irish count and plan to unite Ireland and then invade your neighbours to form a empire of Britannia or just retain your independence - or you could start as the Holy Roman Emperor, determined to maintain your empire. Although there is warfare, the game is more sneaky plotting, forming marriage alliances, making sure that jealous family members don't try to overthrow you and so one. One thing I really like about the game is you can find a decision that was made several decades ago can come back to haunt you as a foreign power has a claim to your titles.

The game has a fair bit humour to it and I've gone from thinking 'Go on, my son!' as my duke had it away with female members of his court but then thinking when he was an elderly man, 'Oh, you dirty, stupid old sod' when he's unsuccessfully tried seducing his daughter-in-law, who ran away screaming. Most events you can react to though - but sometimes it's the lesser of two evils that's best. One of my favourite events possibly happens as summer fairs that you can hold - an animal trainer is infuriated when a monkey refuses to ride upon the back of a pig and begins to beat the monkey with a stick; 'this enrages the other monkeys, who attack the trainer and proceed to to beat him with his own stick' - how do you react to that?

There's a number of excellent DLC add-ons, which offer a different gaming experience and the latest allows you to play as a Viking. Also, there are some fantastic mods - one I've yet to play is a Games of Thrones one, which people just rave about.

Lots of praise has been heaped on the game and for some hacks, it was their game of their year.

[Johnny Townmouse]

I like Fallout-style RPGs but fantasy settings (ie. 98% of the genre) are a major turn-off for me, though the enthusiasm for Skyrim on here might persuade me otherwise. Military simulations also, although I think the last time they were in vogue was about 1998, and the odd first-person shooter. I really wanted to love X2 but it never really grabbed me, though I'm still on the lookout for a good space exploration/trading/combat sim.

That couldn't get much closer to my own wishes. I really like shooting war games, but I'm also aware of how tedious it can be to go from room to room shooting people jumping out in front of you.

I am playing Fallout 3 at the moment and frankly I becoming somewhat overwhelmed by the hugeness of the game, and the number of possibilities. I feel like I am having to do a lot of reading on the game's Wiki page just to make sense of the thousands of permutations and nuances, and also to enable me to continue playing the game. Not knowing, for instance, that I can jump forward in time (relatively speaking) was a pain as I spent an hour not knowing that a supply store closed for the night and I would have to wait until 8am for it to open.

Despite that, or perhaps because of all of that, the game is awe-inspiring in its complexity and attention to detail. I just wish I knew what the fuck I am doing, what all those numbers next to armour and guns means, and why I never have any ammo.

[Zetetic]

Military simulations also, although I think the last time they were in vogue was about 1998,

No! Arma? Or were you hoping for an strategy game?

[Cohaagen]

Thanks for the recommendations everyone. Star Citizen has actually got me quite excited.

No! Arma? Or were you hoping for an strategy game?

I was thinking more along the lines of hardcore flight, tank and naval sims, which nobody seems to make any more, a shame since that was what PC gaming was built on...big fuck-off thick manuals, reference cards and chunky packaging. The manual for M1 Tank Platoon actually had a 50-page appendix going into US Army armoured doctrine in Western Europe.

I'm not so much into flight sims these days. IL-2 is still going, so I may go and check it out again, and I like the look of Black Shark 2 and DCS: A10C. For tanks, Steel Beasts seems to be about it, but I had an argument with the developers on their forum and don't fancy giving my money to a bunch of wankers for them to blow on sour grapes. Silent Hunter 5 got terrible reviews from enthusiasts whose opinion I trust, and the fact that the modding community has largely neglected it leads me to believe they're right. World of Warships is something I'd avoid given the way the devs pumped up the Russian tanks in World of Tanks and crippled the British ones.