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Breaking Bad - Season 5, Part 2 (starts August 11th)

Started by dr_christian_troy, June 05, 2013, 08:16:11 PM

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Sexton Brackets Drugbust

Quote from: dr_christian_troy on June 26, 2013, 09:21:02 PM
Things we know about future-Walt:

- false identity (possibly relating to the as-yet-unseen contact of Saul's who can help people disappear. Since Walt has all been about being someone else, this is something very different. Heisenberg was about legacy. 'Mr Lambert' is about identity for survival. He now has three names - Walter White [his true personality], Heisenberg [his legacy], and Mr Lambert [the identity to hide his true self])
- he is still in contact with the gun-seller (thus confirming he still has a connection to Saul)
- he is not wearing his wedding ring (what happened to his marriage? What happened to Skyler? What happened to his family?)
- he has a bag full of money (presumably from the storage unit)
- he doesn't mind leaving a $100 tip (because money is no longer an issue? Because he knows he hasn't got long left?)
- he is self medicating and has a cough (potentially due to the cancer - but where is he getting the medication?)
- he connects to his former self by having his bacon numbers (52, and given the 51 halfway through the first half of Season 5, plus the amount of time indicated in the montage in the last episode, we're looking at about 6 months from the 5.1 finale. Plus - an indication of loss? An indication he is trying to recreate memories of a time when he still had a family?)
- the gun will not be leaving 'town' (it's a general assumption that the town in question is Albuquerque - and if the gun is never leaving town, Walt isn't either. Jim Beaver's 'good luck I guess' suggests that he is at least partially privy to what the gun will be used for)
- Walt doesn't know how to use the gun (he asks if there is an instruction manual. In this respect, the implication is that he doesn't have much of a choice other than to use the gun. As a man who may very well be dying, who is he aiming to protect other than himself? His family? Jesse? Hank?)

There's probably more, but that's what I gathered from that flash-forward.

I think Jim Beaver's 'Good luck, I guess' could come from the fact that he has some idea of what Walt intends, no matter how vague. However, it could equally be a world weary response to a situation he knows no good can come from; someone purchasing such heavy fire-power in such a clandestine fashion... the writing's on the wall.

With regard to the bacon 52 -
Spoiler alert
it was emphasised by Walt Jnr. as being something that Skyler always did for her husband. We know Walt takes on aspects of the important people he has killed eg. Krazy-8 always removed his crusts, something Walt now does almost ritualistically. It certainly seems like Walt's going to be responsible for Skyler's death in some capacity.
[close]

Quite a few of the names have significance - is Lambert a reference to anything specific?

Rev

Quote from: Sexton Brackets Drugbust on June 26, 2013, 09:11:36 PM
It certainly all looked set for a climactic shootout, but there's every possibility that they'll confound our expectations somehow. They've had a lot of mileage out of the ricin acting as a red herring, maybe they'll do something similar with the gun.

My feeling has always been that he's delivering it to someone for their protection - kind of as an overstated gesture - before heading off to something he doesn't think he'll come back from.  This is mainly because of the question about the manual.  We're used to Walt figuring out far more complicated stuff, after all.

But hey, I'm almost always wrong about this one.

phantom_power

I think Lambert is Skylar's maiden name.

I don't think Walt will kill Skylar. I think the bacon numbers (excellent phrase) is just there to show the passage of time. I also don't think the gun will be used for a big kill-em-all stand-off. Gilligan seems intent on going against Checkov's Gun, as with the ricin. Even if he does intend to use the gun to kill a lot of people, I don't think it will be police. I don't think he is so far gone that he will kill lots of innocent people to stop himself going to jail. I do think maybe he would kill lots of cartel members to protect his family (both real and adopted, like Jesse) though so that might come into play.

I think it all boils down to the fact that I honestly don't know. Breaking Bad has surprised me so much that I believe that they could go pretty much anywhere with the story, and it has delivered so consistently that I am happy to go along for the ride.

As long as Jesse lives.

Sexton Brackets Drugbust

Going by the concept that drama is created by putting your characters in the worst situation imaginable for them, does anyone else think things might happen to Walt Jnr. and/or Holly. They're both still innocents to an extent, in a world of compromised and corrupted characters. Holly in particular is Walt's strongest link to his humanity and his original reason/excuse for getting into meth dealing. If something should happen to her, it will truly have all been for nothing. With her pink romper suits, she's also closely linked with the second season's harbinger of doom, the pink teddybear.

phantom_power

I think they have been pretty good at avoiding that sort of emotional button-pushing so far and I think it would be a shame if they resorted to that now. Also, a few things that Gilligan has said, while completely general and non-spoilery, lead me to believe that this won't happen. That is just my interpretation though, so I could be wrong

Sexton Brackets Drugbust

Quote from: phantom_power on June 27, 2013, 01:19:00 PM
I think they have been pretty good at avoiding that sort of emotional button-pushing so far and I think it would be a shame if they resorted to that now. Also, a few things that Gilligan has said, while completely general and non-spoilery, lead me to believe that this won't happen. That is just my interpretation though, so I could be wrong

Haha! What is all drama, if not 'emotional button pushing'? The storytellers try to create an emotional response in their audience.

The Masked Unit

I always thought Walt Jnr might get into the old blue stuff himself. What the fuck could Walt say about that? Any time we've seen the devastation and deprivation caused by meth it's always been through Jesse's eyes and it's about time Walt saw first hand what he's responsible for. That's the one thing I don't buy about the whole series really: Walt may have turned bad but surely the Walt we knew from the first few episodes would know instinctively that the morals of dealing meth trumps anything else. I guess that's one of the themes though, you don't know your true nature until you have nothing to lose and your back's against the wall.

Ja'moke

But the dude who plays Walt Jr isn't that good of an actor, and I don't really want the last season to focus on him, let him carry on eating breakfast. I want the last season to about Walt and Hank for the first half, and then ultimately come down to Walt and Jesse.

phantom_power

Quote from: Sexton Brackets Drugbust on June 27, 2013, 04:40:15 PM
Haha! What is all drama, if not 'emotional button pushing'? The storytellers try to create an emotional response in their audience.

That is true but some is more blatant that others and killing off characters just because the series if over, kids at that, is too blatant for such a good show. Obviously they could find a way to do it well but I would be wary of that sort of development

Artemis

I'd hazard a guess that 'all bad things will come to an end' indicates Walt will die at some point. I agree that 'remember my name' will be a plea but that after he realises Hank is closing in and there's no escape, and after Skyler enters an immunity deal for herself ensuring the safety of his family, he sinks back into his Heisenberg persona and after fleeing via Saul's contact, becomes paranoid and resigned to his fate. He'll go out in a blaze of ammunition and bravado. Cranston's crowning hour will be the portrayal of a man who sought financial security but lost everything, tragically clinging on to the remnants of Walter White, whose passing he laments as his fate is essentially sealed. I think the flash forward at Dennys is probably positioned around the third to last episode, coming at a time he's preparing for his big finish, while mourning the loss of his wife, family and former self.

I anticipate the pace will be fairly relentless for the first couple of episodes, then slow right down as the characters reach their resting place, allowing time for reflection and Emmy nominations before the send-off. I'd hazard a further guess that Hank will reach certainty that Walt is Heisenberg in episode one, Walt will become aware of it in episode two, there will be an initial semi-confrontation between the two who don't yet know for sure each other knows about their respective positions in episode three, Skyler will seek immunity and Walt - who has been tapping and following Skyler as his paranoia increases, will flee in episode four. In episode five, Walt and Skyler will adjust to their new lives as Hank heads up a man hunt. In episode six, Hank closes in on Walt and Walt mourns his losses and steadily regains his Heisenberg arrogance (the Denny's scene). The final two episodes will see the end of Walt.

I'm not sure how Jesse fits in, what happens with the cancer, whether there is involvement from further afield (e.g. the cartel) or whether any of the above will happen or not. It's just a working theory.

Sexton Brackets Drugbust

Quote from: phantom_power on June 27, 2013, 09:03:03 PM
That is true but some is more blatant that others and killing off characters just because the series if over, kids at that, is too blatant for such a good show. Obviously they could find a way to do it well but I would be wary of that sort of development

By no means am I saying it'll happen, but killing members of Walt's family wouldn't be 'just because the series was over'. As the very thing he wanted to protect/provide for, the utter destruction of Walt's family would complete Walt's hubristic journey. He's been gradually destroying his family since the start.

You're also talking about a show that's had no prior qualms about killing off cute kids in order to push emotional buttons.

phantom_power

I suppose, but I still think they won't die. He will almost certainly lose them but they won't die

SteveDave

Is
Spoiler alert
the mum from Malcolm In The Middle in these last episodes? I saw a photo of her with them all I'm sure.
[close]

Zetetic

Yes. No. Maybe.

Spoiler alert
The photo certainly exists.
[close]

phantom_power

It could well have been a set visit. I would be surprised to be honest

Old Nehamkin

Quote from: SteveDave on June 28, 2013, 09:16:21 AM
Is
Spoiler alert
the mum from Malcolm In The Middle in these last episodes? I saw a photo of her with them all I'm sure.
[close]

No, it was reported that she was but it turned out the source of the news was a fake Twitter account and she confirmed in an interview that she was just visiting the set. Probably for the best really, it's hard to think of how they could include her without it feeling incredibly distracting.


SteveDave

Quote from: Old Nehamkin on June 28, 2013, 09:44:03 AM
No, it was reported that she was but it turned out the source of the news was a fake Twitter account and she confirmed in an interview that she was just visiting the set. Probably for the best really, it's hard to think of how they could include her without it feeling incredibly distracting.

Aww.



Queneau

Eurgh! Who is the genius behind that idea? When will these wankers learn?

George Oscar Bluth II

I just watched the last episode of the first half of season 5[nb]Just call them season 5 and season 6! It's easier![/nb], having watched the rest in about a month.

Wow. Just wow. What a show, what a ride. Can't wait for the second half.

My guess: Walt is felled by his cancer, rather than bullets or the law. Gilligan is going to do a David Chase, and refuse to give us what we want.

Ja'moke

Quote from: Queneau on July 03, 2013, 08:40:18 AM
Eurgh! Who is the genius behind that idea? When will these wankers learn?

The Saul spin-off? I think it's a great idea. Saul is a brilliant character and Odenkirk performs him really well. It might be a little odd if they go too sitcom-y with it, but in that interview he says "...because he works for some pretty scary clientele sometimes, there'd be a bit of drama in it as well." 

Queneau

Quote from: Ja'moke on July 05, 2013, 12:10:58 AM
The Saul spin-off? I think it's a great idea. Saul is a brilliant character and Odenkirk performs him really well. It might be a little odd if they go too sitcom-y with it, but in that interview he says "...because he works for some pretty scary clientele sometimes, there'd be a bit of drama in it as well."

He is a brilliant character but just that. Leave it there. He lives within the Breaking Bad world. Anything else is just an attempt to cash in.

Old Nehamkin

#54
Quote from: Queneau on July 05, 2013, 05:17:31 AM
He is a brilliant character but just that. Leave it there. He lives within the Breaking Bad world. Anything else is just an attempt to cash in.

Vince Gilligan hardly seems like the type of person who'd just sign off on a cheap cash-in though; he's chosen to end Breaking Bad at a point when its ratings are higher than ever and only likely to increase because he feels it's the right time to conclude the story, despite AMC's desire for the show to continue. He clearly has a lot of creative integrity.

Also, it's not like he's just handing over the project to some random hack. He's developing the pilot with Peter Gould- who's been on the Breaking Bad writing staff since season one and written some of the best episodes, including the one in which Saul was originally introduced- with the aim of helping to map out the first season and then taking a more hands-off supervising role, leaving Gould to run the show.

From reading interviews with Gilligan it's clear that he and Gould are putting a great deal of effort into refining the premise of the show and making sure it's creatively worthwhile. Obviously it remains to be seen how the finished product turns out (if it ends up happening) but so far it doesn't seem to bear any signs of being lazily or poorly thought-out, and I trust Gilligan and Gould's judgement enough to assume that they wouldn't knowingly put out an inferior show just to capitalise on the popularity of the character.

Queneau

Quote from: Old Nehamkin on July 05, 2013, 06:05:08 AM
Vince Gilligan hardly seems like the type of person who'd just sign off on a cheap cash-in though; he's chosen to end Breaking Bad at a point when its ratings are higher than ever and only likely to increase because he feels it's the right time to conclude the story, despite AMC's desire for the show to continue. He clearly has a lot of creative integrity.

Don't you understand? That's not true at all because the show would be continuing, kind of, whatever way you look at it. And, I'm not sure if I understand what you mean by stating he has creative integrity.

Mister Six

Quote from: Queneau on July 05, 2013, 05:47:09 PM
Don't you understand? That's not true at all because the show would be continuing, kind of, whatever way you look at it.

What? No it wouldn't. They're saying it might be a prequel, but even if it's not, I doubt it would feature (in any major capacity, at least) any BB characters other than Saul, and possibly that big bodyguard of his.

Queneau

Quote from: Mister Six on July 05, 2013, 06:39:24 PM
What? No it wouldn't. They're saying it might be a prequel, but even if it's not, I doubt it would feature (in any major capacity, at least) any BB characters other than Saul, and possibly that big bodyguard of his.

I'm saying that you can't dismiss it as cash in or the like because, obviously, without Breaking Bad, it wouldn't exist. So, to say that he is not cashing in on Breaking Bad when it is at it's height of fame seems incorrect. For me, it's all about that world that has been created and, whatever you might say, that connection is still there.

Steven

Quote from: Mister Six on July 05, 2013, 06:39:24 PM
What? No it wouldn't. They're saying it might be a prequel, but even if it's not, I doubt it would feature (in any major capacity, at least) any BB characters other than Saul, and possibly that big bodyguard of his.

Surely a sequel would be a better idea than a prequel? Saul rubbing shoulders with criminal dangerous types means the drama should be coming from the tension of him potentially getting killed by his clientele or their peers, and obviously if it's a prequel the element of danger is completely removed as we know he survives to represent Walt & Jessie.

Edley

Quote from: Queneau on July 05, 2013, 06:42:47 PM
I'm saying that you can't dismiss it as cash in or the like because, obviously, without Breaking Bad, it wouldn't exist.

How is that the definition of a cash in? Every job opportunity Gilligan has for the rest of his career wouldn't exist without Breaking Bad; for the sake of his integrity, perhaps he should retire.

It's quite simple: if money were the primary concern, they'd keep making Breaking Bad; if they're ending Breaking Bad for creative reasons, it's fair enough to presume their desire to make a spin-off is based more on creative urges than money.