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Breaking Bad - Season 5, Part 2 (starts August 11th)

Started by dr_christian_troy, June 05, 2013, 08:16:11 PM

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Old Nehamkin

Quote from: Queneau on July 05, 2013, 05:47:09 PM
Don't you understand? That's not true at all because the show would be continuing, kind of, whatever way you look at it. And, I'm not sure if I understand what you mean by stating he has creative integrity.

I do understand. There's a big difference: Breaking Bad is an established hit, its ratings have been steadily rising each season and are likely to continue to do so. If Gilligan wanted to "cash in" he could easily do so by extending the life of the show to seven or eight seasons like Dexter or something, but he's not doing that because it's contrary to the interests of the story. That's what I mean when I say he has integrity- he's putting creative interests before financial ones.

Now, I know you're saying that having a spin-off is effectively the same as producing further seasons, but it isn't. Creating a whole new series based on a side character is in no way a guaranteed success like another season of Breaking Bad would be, and the show would almost certainly premiere to significantly lower ratings than Breaking Bad is currently receiving. Plenty of spin-offs of hit shows crash and burn and this show is ultimately going to live or die on its quality, not its Breaking Bad connection.


Queneau

Quote from: Edley on July 05, 2013, 06:59:16 PM
How is that the definition of a cash in? Every job opportunity Gilligan has for the rest of his career wouldn't exist without Breaking Bad; for the sake of his integrity, perhaps he should retire.

It's quite simple: if money were the primary concern, they'd keep making Breaking Bad; if they're ending Breaking Bad for creative reasons, it's fair enough to presume their desire to make a spin-off is based more on creative urges than money.

Sorry, I think cash in was the wrong term to use but it was used by somebody before me which is probably why I picked it up. It could be that he wants to keep Breaking Bad as is - which is top quality television - but he doesn't quite want to leave it completely.


Quote from: Old Nehamkin on July 05, 2013, 07:00:25 PM
I do understand. There's a big difference: Breaking Bad is an established hit, its ratings have been steadily rising each season and are likely to continue to do so. If Gilligan wanted to "cash in" he could easily do so by extending the life of the show to seven or eight seasons like Dexter or something, but he's not doing that because it's contrary to the interests of the story. That's what I mean when I say he has integrity- he's putting creative interests before financial ones.

I take your definition now, and that makes sense. As for the cashing in thing, see above. That isn't my concern anyway. It's the not knowing when to let something go or let it die.

Quote from: Old Nehamkin on July 05, 2013, 07:00:25 PM
Now, I know you're saying that having a spin-off is effectively the same as producing further seasons, but it isn't. Creating a whole new series based on a side character is in no way a guaranteed success like another season of Breaking Bad would be, and the show would almost certainly premiere to significantly lower ratings than Breaking Bad is currently receiving. Plenty of spin-offs of hit shows crash and burn and this show is ultimately going to live or die on its quality, not its Breaking Bad connection.

I don't believe I've said that having a spin off is the same as producing new series, not in the slightest. Spin offs always suggest a lack of ideas though, which is the opposite of 'artistic integrity'. I am not saying it will be bad, be in the same vein or style or anything of the sort. But, for me, it breaks the illusion of a creation or world or set of characters, or however you want to define it, and it is impossible to watch one without putting it into context or trying to fit it in with the original timeline, timeframe etc. etc. I'm not explaining this very well.

Sexton Brackets Drugbust

Quote from: Queneau on July 05, 2013, 08:07:55 PM
It's the not knowing when to let something go or let it die.

You're not in as strong a position to know this as Vince Gilligan. A creator should let something go when there's nothing more to say - Gilligan may have thought of a whole fuck tonne of things he wants to say with the character of Saul Goodman. We've been watching Walter White's story, of which Saul is one small aspect - a show focussing on Goodman would presumably explore his story. Whether it's any good or not remains to be seen, but if Gilligan thinks there's life in the character, why should we doubt him at this point?

Queneau

Quote from: Sexton Brackets Drugbust on July 05, 2013, 08:13:51 PM
You're not in as strong a position to know this as Vince Gilligan. A creator should let something go when there's nothing more to say

Another good point.

Steven

Why the antithesis? Isn't it more a case of Gilligan wanting to finish the show as he saw, yet having a liking for co-writer Peter Gould, and Bob Odenkirk and thinking they maybe could go on to develop a show separately? Gilligan wanted Odenkirk on the show because he's a fan of Mr Show, and since Gould created the Saul character it's within his right to develop it further. Since Gilligan's resigned to have Breaking Bad finish with his definitive story arc - this exudes some level of artistic integrity, but with the network and fans nipping at his heels, a spinoff show helmed by someone who he admires is a decent compromise. I don't see what the controversy is?

After all, it's not destined to be an automatic success off the back of Breaking Bad, as Friends begat Joey indicates.

Mister Six

Quote from: Queneau on July 05, 2013, 08:07:55 PM
I don't believe I've said that having a spin off is the same as producing new series, not in the slightest. Spin offs always suggest a lack of ideas though

Or an excess of ideas that he wants to try out with Saul, but knows would distract from Walter's story if crowbarred into Breaking Bad (thus proving his integrity regarding his artistic vision for that show).

Quotewhich is the opposite of 'artistic integrity'.

No it isn't.

QuoteBut, for me, it breaks the illusion of a creation or world or set of characters, or however you want to define it, and it is impossible to watch one without putting it into context or trying to fit it in with the original timeline, timeframe etc. etc.

Your distaste for having to worry about continuity is not the same as Gilligan running out of ideas or having no artistic integrity.

Thursday

Do you think it might be best to wait and see if it's any good before we decide this?

WesterlyWinds

Quote from: Thursday on July 06, 2013, 03:37:29 PM
Do you think it might be best to wait and see if it's any good before we decide this?

NO!!!

Old Nehamkin


BritishHobo

I sure hope Hank takes his discovery of Walt's secret well.

Old Nehamkin


Ja'moke

This show has taken over my life so much. I must think about it at least 3 times a day, and discuss it at length at work, especially now that I've managed to get the entire floor I work on to watch the show. I can't wait for this last season, just that little teaser of Hank there has me super excited - I remember that amazing scene with him and Walt in the final episode of last season where Hank was talking about how all he wanted to do was catch bad guys but he has come to the realisation that some people are "monsters", meanwhile Walt was just sat across from him having moments earlier being responsible for the murder of 11 (?) convicts. The Hank and Walt confrontation should be incredible.

Artemis

I'm torn between trying to find out as much as possible between now and August and avoiding absolutely everything. I'm inclined to go with the latter.

Sexton Brackets Drugbust

Quote from: Ja'moke on July 07, 2013, 12:01:28 AM
Walt was just sat across from him having moments earlier being responsible for the murder of 11 (?) convicts.

I think it was 10, including the lawyer. There were originally 11 names on Lydia's list, but Chris took out Mr. Chow, then Mike took out Chris, leaving 9 guys in jail. The lawyer's arrest rounded the necessary prison murder list up to 10.

kitsofan34

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eeeRTYxcKFg

Here's another teaser trailer. This one gives a little bit more than Hank's trailer, which is hardly difficult.

phantom_power

I have just discovered that no UK channel is currently showing Breaking Bad. What the living fuck?

Paaaaul

Quote from: phantom_power on July 15, 2013, 11:45:20 AM
I have just discovered that no UK channel is currently showing Breaking Bad. What the living fuck?

TV channels are stupid. Everything is up at Netflix.

George Oscar Bluth II

Breaking Bad is one of those things that has a fandom that's completely bypassed TV. They've downloaded it, they've bought the DVDs. It's simply not worth a TV channel buying the rights, I'd guess.

phantom_power

Has it never been in UK TV? How did that happen? Everything else has been bought by some channel or other

BritishHobo

I remember it being on some channel way back when it first started, because a mate of mine kept recommending it to me in a way that made it sound like a shit My Name Is Earl,  so much so that when I finally started watching after season 4 I was expecting a straight-up comedy.

From what I can find, they showed the first two seasons on FX and FiveUSA, but not many people watched them, so nobody bothered to continue broadcasting it. However in the last year or so you'd think somebody would have noticed the level of hype it was getting, and decide to broadcast a catch-up run.

SteveDave

It seems like the sort of thing that Channel 4 would've jumped at a few years ago but I suppose after Lost got swallowed up by Sky they've not bothered with any multi-series show for fear of being gazumped again.

phantom_power

I just find it baffling that no channel is showing the best program on TV at the moment. They would get stellar ratings as well if they could show it at the same time or not too soon after America, before it gets on Netflix.

Old Nehamkin

Quote from: BritishHobo on July 15, 2013, 12:39:32 PM
I remember it being on some channel way back when it first started, because a mate of mine kept recommending it to me in a way that made it sound like a shit My Name Is Earl,  so much so that when I finally started watching after season 4 I was expecting a straight-up comedy.

Yeah, I remember seeing a picture in the Radio Times of Hal from Malcolm in the Middle in his pants with a gun and just assuming it was a breezy, zany comedy like Chuck or something.[nb]I've not actually seen Chuck but that's what I imagine it's like.[/nb] I didn't realise it was a drama until I heard Bob Odenkirk talking about it on an episode of Comedy Bang Bang in between seasons 3 and 4 and decided to check it out.

George Oscar Bluth II

I wonder how big the audience in the UK is? How many people here have seen the show?

Ja'moke

Well nearly everyone I work with has now seen it, and they've spread it to other people, so I'd say around half the population of Hull have seen it.

It's one of those shows that has really spread through word of mouth. One month hardly anyone had heard of it, and then the next month HMV had all the DVDs on display at the front of the store. It's mad really that a UK tv channel hasn't capitalised on that.

WesterlyWinds

Yeah it did seem to suddenly explode in the UK. I remember going on about it for quite a while[nb]Yeah I'm that cool.[/nb] before anyone else in my friendship group cottoned on to it. When they did eventually get around to watching it they were blown away though, but had forgotten it was me, king of good taste, who had recommended it in the first place. It was a sad day for all concerned.

Old Nehamkin

Yeah, when I started watching it two years ago I don't think I knew a single person who was aware of it. Now I barely know anyone who isn't. Even my gran watches it avidly now.

Big Jack McBastard

I know I shouldn't have been surprised that there's more episodes coming cos they'd only gotten to 8 out of this season, but the ending to 508 was such a cracker it could have come to a close there with any finality or resolution left to hang in the ether..

I don't doubt the remainder will be up to scratch and probably even better than what's already come, but if by some unlikely/catastrophic sequence of events it turns out 'a bit meh' then I could easily live with it as is.

George Oscar Bluth II

What's amazing to me is that the quality hasn't dropped. Even The Wire stumbled towards it's conclusion. The Sopranos had some missteps. The West Wing got dull between Bartlett's second election and the Alan Alda v Jimmy Smits one. They all got worn out at some point, reached a point where the story was stretched, or where they'd run out of ideas, or where the creator went off on a tangent.[nb]I don't think this is a better show than any of those at their peak, though.[/nb] Not this.

I have no doubt the last eight are going to be incredible.

Mister Six

Quote from: Ja'moke on July 15, 2013, 03:11:37 PM
Well nearly everyone I work with has now seen it, and they've spread it to other people, so I'd say around half the population of Hull have seen it.

It's one of those shows that has really spread through word of mouth. One month hardly anyone had heard of it, and then the next month HMV had all the DVDs on display at the front of the store. It's mad really that a UK tv channel hasn't capitalised on that.

What's to capitalize on? The show's almost over and everyone who would watch it is already on board.