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The audacity of hype - when the music industry failed

Started by Pepotamo1985, June 05, 2013, 09:00:41 PM

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George Oscar Bluth II

WK absolutely has his place, but he's not "bigger than jesus" or the "saviour of music" is he? What the hell were they thinking?

Now...The Vines. What the hell was all that about?

samadriel

Saw the Vines at a festival; easily one of the worst bands I've ever seen, a long streak of nothing.

23 Daves

Quote from: samadriel on June 10, 2013, 05:18:59 PM
Saw the Vines at a festival; easily one of the worst bands I've ever seen, a long streak of nothing.

Was it the Reading Festival? I saw them there and they resembled nothing more than a provincial grunge band, the kind you could watch at just about any Home Counties gig venue in the early nineties.  We could barely get into the tent due to the crowd, but once again, there was a sea of bemused faces wondering what all the fuss was about.

The Vines are actually one of the most baffling bands hype-wise. Gay Dad gave interesting interviews and appeared to have something of a way with a pop melody.  The Datsuns could do dumb garage-rock riffs and were passable.  I could see how, in their early pre-album days, somebody at IPC Towers might have jumped the gun and decided to back either of them - predicting the next big thing isn't an exact science.  The Vines, on the other hand, just made no sense at all, and even when their album was released the NME could only bring themselves to write a mediocre review.  It's hard to understand what made anyone think there was a flash of promise about them. 

I've also remembered that the NME used to have sub-forums for particular bands, and the one for The Vines was always utterly deserted, save for a few people commenting on how shit they were.   

Speaking of recent indie shite - Just what the fuckin' 'eck are The Vaccines about? That break up sex song they did was vomitous.

Don_Preston

Quote from: samadriel on June 10, 2013, 05:18:59 PM
Saw the Vines at a festival; easily one of the worst bands I've ever seen, a long streak of nothing.

A couple of my friends were fans of them and used to see them play in one of the minor venues in Bristol. I'm sure at least one would be slightly embarrassed if this were brought up now.

Icehaven

Quote from: Don_Preston on June 10, 2013, 12:11:20 PM
Were the Young Knives ever hyped during the landfill indie era? I saw them on 'Later...' and thought they were interesting. Then nothing ever came of them. Browsing on Youtube, they remind me of a three piece Cardiacs.

I love The Young Knives! They've made several great albums (the last one was 2011) and they've recently started a Kickstarter to make the next.

As for musical disasters, I'm sure I've mentioned both of these recently elsewhere on here so I'll be brief;
Angelle - In 2002 she had her own TV station (paid for by her music executive boyfriend I think) showing rolling footage of her singing and doing appearances in provincial shopping centres and local radio stations etc. , and still failed to puncture the top 40.
Envy and Other Sins; excellent live band, won an 'authentic' unsigned bands competition on Channel 4 in 2008, decided by public vote. Unfortunately the music executive who's label was behind the show (and who the winner would be signed to) wanted another band to win, so they were subsequently treated like shit, underpromoted, dropped and split up about a year later.

Subtle Mocking

Quote from: The Roofdog on June 10, 2013, 11:38:11 AM
I think half of those bands Subtle Mocking listed did the job in the eyes of their record company didn't they? The Twang, The View, The Fratellis, The Zutons, Razorlight especially, all shifted enough units.

At first, yes, Razorlight and The Zutons are probably the most successful of those, the latter thanks to royalties. The rest of them all seemed to choke on their sophomore albums and don't seem to have accomplished much since. The Fratellis especially were huge for a while, but the second album fell flat on its arse.

Agreed on The Vines, definitely. The Hives were also shit but seemed to have a lot more success.

Funcrusher

I seem to recall that the term 'firework bands' was doing the rounds at one point because there seemed to be so many acts that were massively tipped for greatness and then just fizzled out.

23 Daves

Talking of The Vines has reminded me of this brilliant interview with Kerrang!  Not long after this I seem to remember that it came out that Craig Nicholls had issues (Aspergers syndrome, I believe) and they disappeared for a little while.

QuoteKerrang! What do you think people's perception of you is?

Craig Nicholls: Some people think I'm dull. Some people might think I'm...happy. Some people might think I'm sad. I think I'm in the middle. I really don't know what it is. I haven't really thought about what any individual person thinks of me.

K! Through the prism of the media you seem to attract a lot of criticism for being extremely difficult.

CN: I don't know what to say because I don't know what difficult is. I don't know what the standard code of behavior is, or how I'm supposed to be. I don't want to say because I don't know.

K! Well, are you happy? Because when I was watching you onstage last night you didn't appear to be having a particularly good time.

CN: Well, it's that perception thing again.

K! It maybe perception but I was close to you as you are to that door. I could see, and it didn't seem fun. Am I wrong there?

CN: You might be wrong. You might be right. You have your own opinion...

K! Yeah, but what's your opinion?

CN: You can still write down whatever you want.

K! Yeah, but what do you think? What do you think of what I've just said?

CN: I don't think anything you say is important at all. I think what you do is insignificant. You write about young kids' rock bands or whatever.

K! Not always.

CN: Well, you're going to see Motorhead.

K! Do you like Motorhead?

CN: No comment.

K! I want to ask you something. When you were photographed for our magazine on Monday - and I'm asking you this - why did you walk up to two people from the title and say, I think you're magazine is sh**?

CN: Because I think it's sh** and I was trying to be honest.

K! But why say that to them? By not saying it you're not being dishonest you're just keeping your own counsel.

CN: Well I have to tell you that I think what you do is sh** as well. I have to be honest. What else can I be? Am I supposed to be a good little boy in a nice little rock band for you? So you can interview me, and you can interview me and I can say, Thank you so much for putting me in Kerrap! Because that's what I think of it. And you can print that, in quotes. Kerrap, Kerrap, Kerrap.

K! But what does it matter what you think of the magazine?

CN: [With a raised voice] Well, you're interviewing me, aren't you? You've just said you want to hear what I think...

K! Yeah, because you'd said that previously. If you hadn't have said it I wouldn't ask why you thought that about the magazine.

CN: There's no structure to it...

K! Structure to what?

CN: [Pause] Table cloths.

K! Don't you think it was a rude thing to say to someone?

CN: Don't you think you're being rude to me right now?

K! No, I don't think I am being I am being rude to you right now.

CN: I think it's called a double standard.

K! How is this is a double standard?

CN: I think being hypocritical is kind of a double standard.

K! I don't see how I'm being hypocritical.

CN: That's because you're a journalist.

K! And journalists are hypocritical by nature?

CN: Or maybe it's because you're old, I don't know.

K! This is the question I wanted to ask. If the magazine is sh**, why appear in it?

CN: Because it amuses me to piss you off.

K! But I'm not pissed off.

CN: I think you are.

K! Well I could counter that by saying I think you're album's sh**. Which is true, I do think its sh**.

CN: [Raised voice] Well doesn't it hurt that you didn't say that first when I told you first that I think you're sh** and you're magazine is sh**. And you thought I was going to say, "Oh yeah, oh yeah..."

K! I didn't know what you were going to say.

CN: I don't really care what you think.

K! I know you don't really care what I think. And I don't really care what you think.

CN: [Sarcastic voice] Oh, he doesn't like my singing...

K! Actually, I don't mind the singing; it's the songs that don't go anywhere.

CN: Oh wow, the songs don't go anywhere. I am gonna be, wow, really upset by this.

K! Now you seem upset. You look like you're pretending not to be you seem upset.

CN: Yeah, yeah. You saying the album's crap after me saying Kerrap, Kerrap was sh**. It's f***ing petty. [Unintelligible mutter].... Here's what I think of it. Who f***ing cares what you think of it.

K! Do you think I wouldn't said your album was sh** if you hadn't have said the magazine was sh**?

CN: I don't care either way, man. It's all perceptions and sh**.

K! It just seems that you sitting here talking to me is a complete waste of your time. It's not a waste of my time because this is gonna be a f***ing great feature.

CN: Because you're not gonna put in that I said first that your magazine was sh**.

K! Trust me, I will.

CN: If you were a real man you would have told me the second I sat down that you thought our album was sh**.

K! And you may have walked straight out and I have no story. Let me tell you something Craig, you have blown me out four times for this interview. I have had my week f**** around by you. Now this is neither here nor there, but common courtesy is one thing. I have permission to write this interview even if you didn't show up for quotes. So it doesn't matter. But I just didn't want to be as rude as you were by making it the first thing I said.

CN: I didn't get in a band for f***ing common courtesy, you dick. You're a f***ing joke. The bands you put in your magazine with the tattoos... you're all a big joke. That's all you are.

K! Can we rescue this interview or is this how it's gonna be?

CN: You do whatever the f**k you want.

K! Do you wanna talk about something else?

CN: I don't f***ing care. I think it's amusing.

K! But this isn't even very amusing. It's just a bit sad.

CN: I don't care what you think. Look at you.

K! What do you mean, look at me?

CN: You look like you work in a bank.

K! That's because I'm going to the Royal Opera House and I have to wear a suit. I don't normally dress like this, normally I dress like you. Would that have made you happy if I was dressed like you? Would you not have been so suspicious of me had I been dressed like you?

CN: You really are lame, man.

K! You're not answering my questions at all.

CN: Because your questions are pathetic. Your whole existence and what you are is lame.

K! Me personally?

CN: Yeah.

K! Oh good, that's good. Because you know what? I had managed to convince myself that I was doing okay until I met you. I'm quite heartbroken.

CN: You can take it however you want. You can write whatever you want.

K! I would have thought you would have walked out by now.

CN: If you want me to...

K! I don't want you to do anything. I don't want to engineer anything. Do you like any magazines?

CN: [Sarcastic] Erm, I don't know. It's hard to think of answer to such deep and meaningful questions.

K! Hmmm. I was just curious. The questions aren't supposed to be deep and meaningful but then the answers aren't deep and meaningful either, so I'm thinking on my feet here.

CN: Well, you should have written some questions down.

K! Do you not think I have the questions in my head? Craig...

CN: You can write whatever the hell you want. I hope this turns out great and I hope the Motorhead gig is really good...

K! Well thank you. It'll be better than this and it'll be better than you last night.

CN: [Pretending to be hurt] Oh, oh.

K! Was that a good gig for you last night?

CN: Yeah, it was our best.

K! Jesus, you are a really sh** band.

CN: What's your next question?

K! I don't know. Are we done? We can talk straight and nice if you like or we can carry on like this. Believe me when I say this Craig, I care as little about this as you do. That needs to be understood. I don't care that this is going badly. It is of no importance to me at all.

CN: Well, thanks for coming down, man... [walking out of the room] Well, I hope everything works out for you and I hope everything is great for you.

K! Bye, Craig.

CN: [Mumbles out of range of tape recorder]

K! Nice to meet you, Craig.

Have we mentioned The Hoosiers yet? They were bloody rubbish.  A friend of mine was in this video, shocking to think that it was shot a whole five years ago now, when they actually had a career and acting in a Hoosiers video was actually something you mentioned proudly to your friends rather than moaned about as being a drag.  http://youtu.be/Nzn0ISaR9OQ

Subtle Mocking

Ah yes, The Hoosiers were one that I missed. A bunch of rip-off merchants. Surprised ELO never sued for this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeNNfS0ZTnU

George Oscar Bluth II

QuoteOne of their latest appearances involved turning on the Winchester Christmas Lights in 2012. On the 24th May 2013 , they appeared at Bradford University 's Party on the Amp to perform a few songs Including "Goodbye Mr A". On the 25th May 2013, they appeared at Roehampton Universitys summerball to perform a few songs.

It must be bleak being in a faded band. The way up is fine, the way down...must be grim as fuck.

Subtle Mocking

QuoteIt was announced on April 1, 2011, that the band had departed from their record label Sony after a dispute over the promotion of their latest album The Illusion of Safety.[9] Sparkes told Daily Record, "I don't think many people knew that the second album had been released, so we're having to reissue it to bring it to people's awareness."

It was pushed to death on Radio 2 at the time. One of the songs off that album was played nigh-on every single hour. I really don't know what kind of promotion they were expecting, they're not exactly fucking Radiohead.

It probably didn't help that the reviews were all dead-on average, too. The same thing happened to a lot of the landfill-indie bands second albums.

23 Daves

Quote from: George Oscar Bluth II on June 10, 2013, 08:51:04 PM
It must be bleak being in a faded band. The way up is fine, the way down...must be grim as fuck.

It's where the careers of 98% of all bands go though, isn't it?  Throughout pop music history, most successful bands - if we define successful as being bigger than one-hit wonders - have only managed a few hits before the dumper beckoned. 

I reckon it's probably not all that bad - better to have tasted some luxury and success than to have spent your entire career roaming from pub gig to pub gig playing to handfuls of people.  And they'll always have a few thousand loyal fans who will insist that their first album was seminal, all groups with a few hits to their name seem to have them.  Christ, even the widely-mocked Catch have YouTube comments suggesting that they produced works of genius, and I suspect they probably weren't written by relatives of theirs. 

Subtle Mocking

Of all of those post-Libertines generic indie bands, The Enemy are arguably the worst. Perhaps because they're the only one who continue to pander to the working classes.

QuoteTheir song "Nation of Checkout Girls" has also been widely derided for sounding identical to "Common People" by Pulp, while another song on their album "Don't Break The Red Tape" has also been criticized for borrowing heavily from "London Calling" by The Clash.

EDIT: Oooh, has anyone mentioned Hard-Fi? I remember hearing that they'd sold out the G-Mex a few years ago, now where are they?

EDIT Two: Oh fuck me, what about Reverend and the Makers? Subedit: And both post-Libertines vehicles, Dirty Pretty Things and Babyshambles?

23 Daves

Quote from: Subtle Mocking on June 10, 2013, 09:13:47 PM
Their song "Nation of Checkout Girls" has also been widely derided for sounding identical to "Common People" by Pulp.

Hmmm.... just listened to that (for the first time, actually) and it does sound like late Britpop hopefuls 60ft Dolls (have we mentioned them yet?) covering "Common People" in places. While I don't think it's a particularly good track, I'm going to let them off on the basis that "Common People" itself bares an uncanny resemblance to a lot of Italian pop.  I'm thinking specifically of this: http://youtu.be/yc0FnafjV4g and also Giorgio Moroder's (fucking brilliant) "Underdog": http://youtu.be/Sh5B8s78aVc.  I'll admit that it's not quite so blatant, but still, Pulp were often tealeaves themselves, albeit in more subtle ways.

This thread has actually depressed me, because it's caused me to reflect upon how much harsher I'd have judged a lot of bands I really loved in my early twenties.  The older I get, the more I have a jaded "heard it all before" attitude. If I could forget most of what I've heard or read in the last fifteen years, I'd probably be much better off for it. 

Jesus. If I were a boxer I think I'd hire you, Subtle Mocking, to get my aggression pumping pre-fight by reeling off name after name of fucking shit bands I thought I'd forgotten. You seem to have a knack for it.

Icehaven

Babyshambles are still at it, touring presently I believe. They'll still have a career for a few years more, until Pete Doherty's fanbase hits 35.

Didn't Hard-Fi put out an album not that long ago with the most absurdly poorly conceived attempt at subverting album artwork ever, it just said something like ''no album artwork'' in big letters on it?
Edit; this was it


Jesus.

Subtle Mocking

Quote from: icehaven on June 10, 2013, 09:49:26 PM
Babyshambles are still at it, touring presently I believe. They'll still have a career for a few years more, until Pete Doherty's fanbase hits 35.

Really? Christ. I saw them live in 2008, they showed up an hour late and half-heartedly chucked out some of their tunes, before people got fed up and started asking him to sing Libertines stuff.

Icehaven

Quote from: Subtle Mocking on June 10, 2013, 09:51:48 PM
Really? Christ. I saw them live in 2008, they showed up an hour late and half-heartedly chucked out some of their tunes, before people got fed up and started asking him to sing Libertines stuff.

Sure I've seen an ad for them coming to one of my local venues soon. I shan't be attending (although I saw them in 2008 too, don't remember it being much cop, and I was a huge Libertines fan) (Well the first album anyway.)

chand

Quote from: icehaven on June 10, 2013, 09:49:26 PM
Babyshambles are still at it, touring presently I believe. They'll still have a career for a few years more, until Pete Doherty's fanbase hits 35.

Aye, saw a poster for them outside a gig venue recently, alongside posters for Danzig, the B-52s, Suede and Wheatus. Something for everyone there. That Wheatus are still going amazed me. It did make me think it would be pretty awesome trolling if they decided not to play 'Teenage Dirtbag'.

The Vines were one of the biggest disconnects I can recall between the hype and the actual reality of their records. I never gave a shit about The Libertines but I could sort of get why you could lose your shit over them if you were a teenager or fucked on drugs or an idiot or a combination. The Vines didn't really have anything, they were just a big heap o' nothin'. I can't really get that excited for any band who could legitimately be described as 'sub-Silverchair'.

doppelkorn

A few years ago I was at a festival with a couple of mates where Weezer were playing. One of the two mates was not arsed about seeing them because "they only have that one  song - Teenage Dirtbag". After much arguing me and the other mate managed to convince him that he was actually thinking about Wheatus so we trotted over to the main stage for Weezer who finished with an encore of - you guessed it - Teenage Dirtbag![nb]For some bloody reason[/nb]. True story.

doppelkorn

I tell you who were also fantastically shite from the mid-00s indie canon - The Subways. I saw them supporting Embrace[nb]Fuck off[/nb] and not one song, chord, riff or note led me to think they could actually play their instruments. The lass spent the full 30 minutes pogoing in circles.

Don_Preston


Subtle Mocking

Quote from: Don_Preston on June 10, 2013, 11:26:03 PM
Towers of London?

They were so much like Spinal Tap that I genuinely struggle to believe that it wasn't all a big act.

The Subways were shit, agree there. Downloaded their album but can't recall a single track from it.

Don_Preston

I don't think I ever heard a Subways song. But they're existence is partly forgiveable due to my Achilles' Heel: female bassists!

Subtle Mocking

Have we mentioned The Klaxons yet? During that 5-6 month spell in which 'new rave' was taking off, the NME were pushing them to the moon. They had a few songs that sounded like early Squeeze, a decent but not brilliant album, and then the dreaded Mercury Prize (how many hyped artists have fallen prey to that, incidentally?). They've had another album since but they've pretty much fallen off the radar entirely.

Mildly Diverting

Not a music industry attempt to create and hype, but older readers may remember Morrissey, at the peak of The Smiths success, enthusing about a band called Raymonde. He went so far as to make them their support act on 'The Queen Is Dead' tour. Unfortunately, even Moz devotees quickly realised that Raymonde were a bunch of shockingly untalented chancers and greeted them with a storm of gobbing the second they set foot on stage.

They're probably massive in Cuba now, mind.

Icehaven

That's reminded me of The Ordinary Boys, who Moz also temporarily spoke well of. Presumably he dropped them like hot coals once the extent of Preston's twattishness became apparent. Their first album was OK though.

Subtle Mocking

Quote from: icehaven on June 11, 2013, 12:10:06 AM
That's reminded me of The Ordinary Boys, who Moz also temporarily spoke well of. Presumably he dropped them like hot coals once the extent of Preston's twattishness became apparent. Their first album was OK though.

He also spoke highly of The Courteeners. No idea how popular they are outside of Manchester,  but they're never not on XFM here.

This thread seems to have now become a list of really quite successful bands people thought were crap.