English idioms

[morgs]

An English teacher tells me that 'Take the biscuit' comes from 19th century Black Slaves in the Southern US.  For amusement they used to promenade around a hall or barn in pairs (not sure about do-si-do though) - and the most graceful pair won a piece of cake... 'That takes the cake'.  This got anglicised to 'Take the biscuit'.

Apparently.

[Purple Tentacle]

Why does "Having one's work cut out" mean things are going to be difficult?

Surely if you cut the work out, it's going to be easier.

[glitch]

Also, I'm told that if you translate 'out of sight, out of mind' into Japanese, and then back to English, it re-emerges as 'invisible idiot'.

Isn't there that Britney song "I'm a girl, not yet a woman" which under the same cirumstances evolves into "I have menstruated, not yet been penetrated"?

I might have just read that on Popbitch though...

[Raminagrobis]

French idioms:

i've got a frog in my throat:
J'ai un chat dans la gorge (I've got a cat in my throat)

Monkey business:
Grenouillage ('frog business')

To fight like cat and dog:
Se battre comme des chiffonniers (to fight like rag-and-bone men)

Rome wasn't built in a day:
Paris ne s'est pas fait en un jour (Paris wasn't built in a day)

Apparently the English expression 'a forlorn hope' has nothing to do with hopes, forlorn or otherwise. It derives from the Dutch 'verloren hoop', and it means an advance guard of the army.

[morgs]

Why does "Having one's work cut out" mean things are going to be difficult?

Surely if you cut the work out, it's going to be easier.

Ha! My English teacher friend turned up while I was online desperate for a cup of sugar or something... She is a fount of all knowledge and says it's to do with tailoring.  A tailor would lay out the cloth he was using to turn into some garment.  The apprentice could do this for you, hence.... Having one's work cut out.  An over-keen apprentice would be cutting out too much cloth for you at too fast a rate... leading to this being a bad move overall

I think that was it

[Tom Rad]

Any other good Finnish idioms we should be aware of?

Hmm, let me think. I can never think of any good examples, but here are some off the top off my head:

If you're not following what someone is saying or a plot in a story, you might say putosin kärryiltä, 'I've fallen off the cart'.

If something is or isn't your area of expertise, you would say Se on/ei ole minun heiniäni, 'It is/isn't my hay'. As in, "I can do the washing up, but cooking's more your hay".

One of the idioms for dying is heittää veivinsä, 'to throw your crank'

You could describe someone who is very quiet as being hiljainen kuin kusi sukassa, 'as quiet as a piss in a sock'.

If you want to take the idioms and sayings of a language to be a reflection of the culture of its speakers, it would seem that based on this sample, Finns ride around in carts, making hay and pissing in their socks before throwing old car parts around (and going off to do something more worthwhile).

[Morrisfan82]

You could describe someone who is very quiet as being hiljainen kuin kusi sukassa, 'as quiet as a piss in a sock'.

I love you.

[Cerys]

In English - 'raining cats and dogs'.

In Welsh - 'raining old ladies with umbrellas' [translation]

Which makes a lot more sense.

[mook]

You could describe someone who is very quiet as being hiljainen kuin kusi sukassa, 'as quiet as a piss in a sock'.

I love you.

Me too. I'm going to add that to my quite frankly pathetic list of foreign phrases, just in case i ever go to Finland. Mind you if "hiljainen kuin kusi sukassa" turns out to mean "Hello, I've got an arsehole filled with drugs." I will hunt you down and spray "SILLY" on your front door. So be warned.;)

[Tom Rad]

You could describe someone who is very quiet as being hiljainen kuin kusi sukassa, 'as quiet as a piss in a sock'.

I love you.

Me too. I'm going to add that to my quite frankly pathetic list of foreign phrases, just in case i ever go to Finland. Mind you if "hiljainen kuin kusi sukassa" turns out to mean "Hello, I've got an arsehole filled with drugs." I will hunt you down and spray "SILLY" on your front door. So be warned.;)

Nah, you're alright. I wouldn't teach anyone deceptive profanities. Actually, I should really stop teaching English people any Finnish profanities. I should have learned my lesson when I taught Mr Rad 'Hello my name is...' (Hei, minun nimeni on...) and 'Suck my cock' (Ime mun munaa), only for him to go and introduce himself to my aunt with a cheerful request for a fellatio.

[Krang]

"To coin a phrase"

Comes from french monks (i think) who used to print religious texts. They would use an old pull down printing press. The would place letter stamps in order, to make a paragraph or phrase. This was "coining a phrase"

[ColaCoca]

another well known naval one is

freeze the balls off a brass monkey

a brass monkey being a metal triangle for holding cannonballs in one place, its a cold day, the metal contracts, the balls don't fit so well and roll out.

Yeah I used to believe that one too, but unfortunately it's bollocks.  Sorry.

http://www.snopes.com/language/stories/brass.htm

Never look a gift horse in the mouth comes from the fact that you can tell how old (and crap) a horse is by looking at it's teeth.  I hope that's not too patronising explaining that.  You do all know what 'patronising' means don't you?

[Krang]

Which leads me nicely onto my very own word i have indeed "coined".

"Matronising" For a woman of high status to talk down to male of lower status (or something)

woohoo!

[Raminagrobis]

another well known naval one is

freeze the balls off a brass monkey

a brass monkey being a metal triangle for holding cannonballs in one place, its a cold day, the metal contracts, the balls don't fit so well and roll out.

Yeah I used to believe that one too, but unfortunately it's bollocks.  Sorry.

The thing about idioms is that their origins are impossibly difficult to pin down. For the most part, idioms take root in oral culture, so the traditional OED route of tracing the first textual instance is useless. Single word etymologies are easy enough to pin down, if they originate in French, Latin, Greek, whatever. Idioms are a different matter: they exist in a space inaccessible to academics.  That is why I am always wary of accepting etymologies that are, more often than not, the product of conjecture. The idea that 'to have ones work cut out' originates in tailoring (as someone claimed earlier) is convincing, but unprovable. Most books that give the origins of idioms fail to mention that their ingenious conjectures are nothing more than conjectures. We can still get the pleasure of discovering a new bit of knowledge from these things, but nothing is certain.

In conclusion: never trust anyone, especially academics.

[Smackhead Kangaroo]

interestingly the japanese sentece "I am arriving" ahs the same alternate use that the english "I am coming" has. ALso ifI remember I am hot means you're horny. that might also be true of French.

[Raminagrobis]

interestingly the japanese sentece "I am arriving" ahs the same alternate use that the english "I am coming" has. ALso ifI remember I am hot means you're horny. that might also be true of French.

Yes that's true in French: 'en chaleur' is the equivalent to 'on heat'. If you want to say "I'm coming" in French (having an orgasm), you'd say: "Je jouis", which might be confusing for someone learning the French language who wants to say "I'm enjoying myself"

[Smackhead Kangaroo]

I've just had a look at the AskOxford.com and the meaning of butter wouldn't melt is actually:

— PHRASES look as if butter wouldn't melt in one's mouth informal appear innocent while being the opposite.