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March 28, 2024, 06:28:27 PM

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The Wolf of Wall Street

Started by El Unicornio, mang, June 18, 2013, 11:45:29 AM

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Pissant

Wouldn't rate it over Casino myself, but it's made of the same respect for engaging the audience.  And I don't mind the rat.

The television test!  There's just something about a Scorsese flick that sucks you in from channel surfing mediocrity.  It's the narrative urgency, superb characterisation, the razor-sharp trimming of the average and unecessary.  Excluding 'The Aviator', all of his later films pass this test for me.  Even Cape Fear is engaging and thrilling eons above the usual fare.
 
I'd echo this new trailer dismay though, so, once again Marty, in thee I trust to surprise my otherwise hard-to-please cinema chops.

El Unicornio, mang

Apparently the trailer is a really bad representation of the film. I know a couple of people who thought it looked really shit, but went to see it anyway and thought it was the best thing he's done since Casino.

checkoutgirl

I thought the trailer looked fantastic and immediately resolved to pay money to see it in the cinema based on it.

Santa's Boyfriend

Quote from: Bored of Canada on December 18, 2013, 01:12:56 PM
Shutter Island I really didn't like either, but I still feel that was a well executed film, I just remember feeling confused because it was all kind of building towards a 'twist'. But from seeing the mental asylum setting and hearing the premise, I just immediately assumed that the whole '
Spoiler alert
You're actually a patient and you imagined all this.
[close]
thing would inevitably come, and after it happened, I was excitedly waiting for twist to happen, the subversive one that would catch me completely off guard with this obvious red-herring, and change how I perceived the narrative, like a good twist would, and the final act would be brilliant.

Then the credits rolled! It just ended and I was utterly confused.

There's a twist there that you might not have spotted.

Spoiler alert
DeCaprio's character recognised his own insanity, was essentially cured, but faked his insanity at the end because he didn't actually want to live with the knowledge and understanding of what he'd done.  So, in effect, he committed suicide.  I thought it was quite a nice twist to be honest, because we the audience were the only ones who recognised it.
[close]

Noodle Lizard

This was shit, I reckon.

It was far, far too long for what it was, and I feel like I've seen this story several times before anyway.  Scorsese's attempts to inject the funny were painful.  That whole Quaalude segment was a perfect example of a simple gag handled terribly - it also went on way longer than it needed to, the audience were chuckling at the start but dead silent by the third or fourth minute of the same fairly banal joke.

In addition to that, did anyone notice that the editing/continuity was really shoddy?  I'm sure some would say it was intentional, but I can't think of much artistic justification for it.  It just looked like it was lazily made.

On the plus side, Jonah Hill wasn't bad and Leo DiCaprio sounded like Bill Burr in the initial voice over.  There are pretty naked ladies as well.

Here's an interesting article.
http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2013/12/wolf_of_wall_street_prousalis.php

I ain't seen this, nor read the book. I've only seen the trailer.
To be fair, I think the same could be said about this lady if my knowledge of Scorsese films is correct, and most kinds of films about these kinds of themes are, but still, it's an interesting enough little read, I guess.

Sam

Quote from: Bored of Canada on December 28, 2013, 07:10:37 AM
Here's an interesting article.
http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2013/12/wolf_of_wall_street_prousalis.php

A beautiful written and touching article. Reduced to stealing salami? Jesus! She spoke with great moral authority about people cashing in on her story; you feel she wouldn't consider sinking to the same. How unfortunate there's an advert at the bottom for her memoir. I bet she's gutted the paper have included that without her permission.

Noodle Lizard

I didn't like the film, but she can fuck off, to be honest.  It's not "her story", I don't recall any character of her father's name in the film, nobody's "cashing in" on her trauma.  Her dad was a criminal and went to jail - it sucks, but it's not Martin Scorsese or er ... Leo DiCaprio's fault.  The film is not glorifying it any more than 'Goodfellas' glorifies being a gangster or virtually any other subseuent criminal biopic glorifies whatever vices its protagonists indulge in.  In fact, in this one the main characters are made to look far more repulsive and stupid than in most instances, and most scenes of excess have that nauseating 'Spring Breakers' feel to it.

Put simply, if she didn't bother to wonder how 'Goodfellas' might have affected the real-life City Detective #2's daughter, why should she expect people to do the same for her?   Looking forward to her book.

QuoteMy mother had locked herself in the bathroom crying and throwing up, becoming nothing short of a more beautiful version of Cate Blanchett in Blue Jasmine. Ironically enough, Marty, she looks like a cross between Sharon Stone and Michelle Pfeiffer. Totally your leading ingénue type.

Ugh, fucking interminable. 


El Unicornio, mang

Good link. Probably my favourite film editor, and always comes across as being a lovely person too.

Noodle Lizard

I wish she'd have talked more about the very obvious weird continuity in the editing.  For instance, there are several of two-shot scenes where dialogue overlaps although the person is clearly not speaking, or their hand is up in one shot and down in the next.  I mean, it's the script supervisor's job rather than hers, but I can only assume she would have informed Marty or someone about these problems (which are far more prevalent than most films) and either re-edited or gone for re-shoots.  Did Marty want it that way or just say "oh fuck it, leave it in"?   

It's not just me, Variety mentioned it in their review too:

QuoteEven when the movie is really cooking (which is often), there's a feeling that scenes are being held for a few beats too many, that Scorsese and his ace editor Thelma Schoonmaker simply didn't have enough time to do the elegant fine-tuning they're accustomed to (an impression reinforced by several conspicuous continuity gaffes and badly matched cuts throughout the film).

I remember one or two obvious glitches in 'The Departed' too (noticeably a scene where Leo is smoking in one shot and not in the reverse), but nowhere near as much as 'WOWS'.  Is it a style he's going for?  I'm probably more interested in this than anything else about the movie, sadly.

El Unicornio, mang

Scorsese's films do tend to have more than other films, and they're often more obvious (although I think Kubrick was an even bigger culprit). It's something I don't think he's that bothered about, and honestly it's never affected my enjoyment. I almost quite like the disorientation effect it has in certain scenes.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on December 28, 2013, 05:24:01 PM
Scorsese's films do tend to have more than other films, and they're often more obvious (although I think Kubrick was an even bigger culprit). It's something I don't think he's that bothered about, and honestly it's never affected my enjoyment. I almost quite like the disorientation effect it has in certain scenes.

Eeh, have you seen this one yet?  It's does take me out of the film when those kinds of errors are so blatant and repeated, I've never felt that with any other Scorsese film.  There's also some really dodgy dubbing in some parts, where the room tone and volume doesn't match at all.

I dunno.  I'd forgive it for a better overall movie, but it wasn't the only thing I felt was lazy about this one.

Sam

There's loads of continuity errors in Goodfellas.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: Sam on December 29, 2013, 01:18:13 AM
There's loads of continuity errors in Goodfellas.

Haven't seen it in a few years, but I don't remember any off the top of my head (of course they're there, just none that really stood out).  I think this is the first Scorsese film I've seen in the cinema (barring a re-release of 'Taxi Driver') so that may have made them more obvious.

Garam

are you fucking serious? (Nood Liz)

if continuity errors are enough to make you write off a film, it's quite a clear sign you're being overly anal and need to take a break from the medium.

A Killing of Chinese Bookie is one of my favourite films, but at the end of the film the protagonist puts pressure on his wound, that earlier in the film was about a foot north west on his body.

but it doesn't matter because everything else about it is so affecting and incredible.

movies are made by HUMAN BEINGS. Under a budget. Within a time limit. A collaboration of at the most minimal 100 human beings pulling together. Yes, continuity errors happen sometimes. Jesus christ.

And aside from that the choices in writing might just be deliberate, because it's creativity and it doesn't always have to slavishly adhere to HOW REAL WORLD WOULD PLAY OUT

i mean OOF

Quote from: Garam on December 29, 2013, 02:33:11 AM
are you fucking serious? (Nood Liz)

if continuity errors are enough to make you write off a film, it's quite a clear sign you're being overly anal and need to take a break from the medium.

A Killing of Chinese Bookie is one of my favourite films, but at the end of the film the protagonist puts pressure on his wound, that earlier in the film was about a foot north west on his body.

but it doesn't matter because everything else about it is so affecting and incredible.

movies are made by HUMAN BEINGS. Under a budget. Within a time limit. A collaboration of at the most minimal 100 human beings pulling together. Yes, continuity errors happen sometimes. Jesus christ.

And aside from that the choices in writing might just be deliberate, because it's creativity and it doesn't always have to slavishly adhere to HOW REAL WORLD WOULD PLAY OUT

i mean OOF

I notice continuity errors in films but it doesn't effect my enjoyment of the movies. A great film is a great film regardless and you forget about all other things if it's that good. But if the films not clicking with you and you're not engaged, then you'll start to notice all this stuff. So maybe Noodle Lizard is being incredibly anal about it, or maybe the film just wasn't that engaging as a film. I've not seen it, and I don't live inside of Noodle Lizard, except for that one arranged time a month, so I can't tell you.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: Garam on December 29, 2013, 02:33:11 AM
are you fucking serious? (Nood Liz)

if continuity errors are enough to make you write off a film, it's quite a clear sign you're being overly anal and need to take a break from the medium.

A Killing of Chinese Bookie is one of my favourite films, but at the end of the film the protagonist puts pressure on his wound, that earlier in the film was about a foot north west on his body.

but it doesn't matter because everything else about it is so affecting and incredible.

movies are made by HUMAN BEINGS. Under a budget. Within a time limit. A collaboration of at the most minimal 100 human beings pulling together. Yes, continuity errors happen sometimes. Jesus christ.

And aside from that the choices in writing might just be deliberate, because it's creativity and it doesn't always have to slavishly adhere to HOW REAL WORLD WOULD PLAY OUT

i mean OOF

Maybe read my posts and you'd notice that the continuity error thing was just something I noticed and far from my biggest problem with the thing.  If the film was good, I might still have mentioned it, but it wouldn't have affected my liking the film.  I've never pointed out gaffes as a criticism of a film before, it's not something I do, but when some scenes are as awkwardly put-together as 'The Room', it is worth a mention.

Yes, I know movies are made by human beings on a budget[nb]though money doesn't buy basic continuity[/nb] and I know continuity errors exist in every film.  But it's surprising to have so many very shifty ones in a movie with a $90 million budget made by some of the most respected people in the field - hence my surprise.  I'm not the only one who's commented on it either, and people don't generally comment on the minor errors almost every film has.  The ones in WOWS are jarring and make certain scenes look really shoddy, as you'll see when you actually watch the film.

I'll explain the rest of my problems with it in more detail when more people have seen the thing, but I thought my initial post made it pretty clear.

kitsofan34

Would you imagine the film is uncomfortable to watch with a parent, Noodle? I'm currently scheduled to do just that and am feeling apprehension.

El Unicornio, mang

From what I gather, early on it features fellatio in a car and a big orgy on a plane. Definitely not one I'd watch with a parent.

Just finished watching this and loved every minute of it.

Leonardo DiCaprio is fantastic, and really should do more comedy.  He's very good at physical comedy, it turns out.

Jonah Hill also very, very good in this.  (I hated him in 'Superbad' and some of those earlier Apatow films but, from 'Cyrus' onwards, he's really gone up in my estimation).

Was looking forward to watching this anyway, but it was way better and much, much funnier than I was expecting.  I heartily recommend it.  You get the impresssion Scorsese's had a blast making this one.


Blinder Data

I haven't seen the Wolf of Wall Street but the conversation about editing is an interesting one. I noticed that the third series of Louie, which was edited by Woody Allen's longtime editor, had a lot of these kind of edits - basically you can notice the cuts like you say: someone's hand is raised in one shot and lowered in the other. I guess it's an old-style way of editing, a focus on the best take over seamless transition? You can look at it as a simple flaw or appreciate it as a different way of cutting a film together.

I haven't seen WoWS though, so I don't know whether the changes are much more egregious and distracting. Looking forward to seeing another new Scorsese film (first time in the cinema, I think!).

I must admit, I did also notice a few of the continuity/editing issues mentioned above, but they weren't so infuriating as to make me storm out of the room bellowing "I will not tolerate this shoddiness!". 
I managed to carry on watching and enjoying the film.

Dropshadow

Saw "Wolf" yesterday. It was three hours long. I liked the two "Wall Street" films so I liked this too. Imagine a film where everyone is Gordon Gecko - that's what it's like. Someone mentioned they didn't like the "quaalude" sequence, but I did. Hunter Thompson-on-ether squared. Apparently there's a film from 2000 called Boiler Room which deals with the same bunch of sharks that's featured in Wolf; I've downloaded a copy and I'm going to watch it later on today.

There's lots of The Drugs and The Sex in Wolf so it's probably best if you drug your parents and/or kids before it starts.

Gulftastic

Boiler Room is not bad. Great cameo from Ben Afleck. Vin Diesel is surprisingly good too.

Head Gardener

The Wolf of Wall Street : Fucking short version

Pissant

Well I didn't (fucking) like it.

Every time Di Capri-Sun  went on one of his 'motivational' speeches I grew instantly bored.  Nothing in the film came close to the great mesmerising 'violent capitalism' speeches by corporate reptiles like Alec Baldwin in Glengarry Glen Ross, or Arthur Jensen in Network ('You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Beale, and I won't have it!'), or even the archetype Gecko himself (weakly referenced in the film). 

Bit of a missed opportunity, or maybe there wasn't one that hadn't been more articulately expressed before?  I'm all for an exploitation film about excess with no easy answers, but it doesn't FEEL like real excess (more like a standardised American version of excess).  There are nuances, couple of laughs, but very thinly spread for me. 

Also, something was going on with Patsy Stone's face.  Yup, it's a continuity error.

El Unicornio, mang

I liked it, but unlike Scorsese's best, I can't imagine getting a lot of repeat viewing enjoyment from this. Pretty funny throughout, bit too long (although I'd still like to see the 4 hour version), don't remember the last time I saw so many graphic sex scenes in a regular film. Would have preferred a more serious tone as I find the whole Wall Street thing fascinating even though I don't understand anything they're on about (Margin Call is one that springs to mind).

Have to say though, I didn't notice a single continuity error.

DrunkCountry

Didn't notice any continuity errors[nb]although I did notice some clunky edits, which didn't bother me in the slightest[/nb], but then I was engrossed in the spectacle of the thing. Thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed it overall & thought DiCaprio & Hill were superb — the best I've seen the both of them in, like, ever. It's a hyper-structured farce, really, faintly disguised with fluid storytelling.

I do have one serious gripe & that's with the same scene I think most people, who are griping about the film in general, have griped about the most. It's just way too long & cumbersome & ceases to be 'funny' quite quickly. That said, this is definitely an 'owner' & I'll be buying the Blu-ray once it's out.

El Unicornio, mang

I didn't mind the length of that scene, although I thought it would have been funnier if they'd had that
Spoiler alert
long drawn out crawl to the car, then him realising he'd left his keys in the lobby.
[close]

My only real gripe is that they didn't show enough of the impact his activities had on the victims, and the eventual downfall. It does show some of the negatives, but I can imagine a lot of people coming away from it thinking the risk is greatly outweighed by the massive rewards.

I notice that they had to cut some graphic sex scenes to get the film an R-rating. I'm trying to imagine what they must be like, considering the stuff that made it into the film. Hopefully there'll be a bounty of deleted stuff on an unrated DVD/bluray release.

Also, I'm not going to be able to hear "Double Dutch" by Malcom McLaren now without thinking of DiCaprio and Hill spit-roasting an office worker.