When did The Simpsons jump the shark?

[The Roofdog]

Before reading that Zombie Simpsons book, it never would've occurred to me that Marge Be Not Proud was the earliest harbinger of doom, but they make a good case.

How can any episode that has Lee Carvallo's Putting Challenge be responsible for the downfall?

[kngen]

Bart v Australia and Lisa's Wedding[nb]both of them relying on pretty lame stereotypes for a lot of their humour, it occurs to me now[/nb] were the first two eps since the first (and first half of the second season) I saw that made me think I couldn't rely on The Simpsons to be consistently brilliant week in, week out.

By the end of season 7, I'd grimaced and laughed on a 1:1 ratio at The Flying Hellfish, Summer of 4ft2 and Homerpalooza, and was pretty much convinced my favourite TV programme had changed irrevocably for the worse[nb]it should be noted that if my family had any kind of pervading philosophy it was 'the old ones are better', whether it be Tom and Jerry cartoons, Subbuteo figures or Terry's Chocolate Oranges, so my entire world outlook has been based around enduring the bathetic decline of the things I cherish. It's a pain in the fucking arse, let me tell you![/nb]. I cant quite recall where I was living for Season 8, but the channel that showed it did a double-bill of one new one and one old one, which did the debuting episodes no favours at all. I stopped watching the new episodes after that as I found them so depressingly shit, although I would catch the occasional one at a friend's house, and would be appalled at how bad they were: Monty Can't Buy Me Love, or Simpsons Safari being particular offenders.

So in answer to the original question, I say season 8. If there are any reccos of must-see later episodes, I'd be interested to check them out.

[Replies From View]

My appreciation of when the Simpsons stopped being good is kind of sullied by the way I encountered them.  Until the DVDs I only ever saw them on the BBC and later C4 airings, which meant a constant loop of which series was it?  I seem to remember series one being on all the time, maybe episodes from the first four series, but basically I was sick of them and went into the later series enjoying that they were at last "fresh".  When I say "later series" I mean series 7, 8 and 9, though.  There's a marked drop in quality thereafter, but I still find it hard to watch the "classic" episodes that the BBC showed, due to that initial overexposure.

[George Oscar Bluth II]

If would definitely recommend 'Behind the Laughter', from season 11 to anyone who hasn't seen it. It's a non-canon 'Behind the Music' parody where it's revealed that the show was written and created by Homer, but it's really, really well done and basically openly accepts the show's then recent downturn in plots and quality.[nb]Next season: "The Simpsons are going to Delaware!"[/nb] It's the last great episode and would have, as someone else mentioned, made a great finale in an alternative universe where the show ended when it should have done.

[elnombre]

I'm glad someone has mentioned Bart Vs. Australia as it is without a doubt the dumbest episode of the first 6 or 7 seasons. It always completely blows my mind to see it show up on 'Top 10 episode' lists since it basically embodies the dumb (not to mention xenophobic) flag-waving American stereotype that the show had up until then made a point of sharply satirising. It's characterisation of Australia just comes off as moronic and uneducated. Bart mooning while humming Star Spangled Banner absolutely made my skin crawl.

[clingfilm portent]

On the commentaries I remember some arse defending that episode with the standard 'What's the matter? Can't take a joke?' stuff.

[Jerzy Bondov]

Marge Be Not Proud is one of the all time top five Simpsons episodes of all time. Actually that might have made another good alternate universe series finale, to bookend the run with Christmas episodes. It's very sweet and genuinely moving, but it's also hilarious throughout.

'I don't remember saying that'
'Marge, is Lisa at Camp Granada?'
'They weren't home, uh huh. But I left a message on their answering machine, that's right.'
'When I was your age, I wanted an electric football game more than anything in the world. And my parents bought it for me, and it was the happiest day of my life. Well, goodnight.'
'Haven't you learned anything from that guy that gives those sermons in church? Captain What's-his-name. We live in a society of laws. Why do you think I took you to see all those Police Academy movies? For fun?! Well I didn't hear anybody laughing. Did you? Except at that guy who made sound effects. Vroom. Beep. Honk. Honk. Ha-ha. Where was I? Oh yeah, stay out of my booze.'
'THRILLHO'
and the already mentioned Lee Carvallo's Putting Challenge.

Maybe it does mark the beginning of the end, but only because it set an impossibly high standard for that kind of low-key, emotionally resonant episode.

Bart vs. Australia is shit.

[clingfilm portent]

Those are all really funny lines. That Zombie Simpsons thing is great. Until I read it, I never considered Marge Be Not Proud to be that much of a tonal shift from what came before. On hindsight it is odd.

Anyway I'll try my hand again; what do people consider the first great episode of The Simpsons?

[checkoutgirl]

Marge Be Not Proud is one of the all time top five Simpsons episodes of all time.

It's even got Lawrence Tierney in.

Brodka: Hey, kid: one more thing. If you ever set foot in this store again, you'll be spending Christmas in juvenile hall. Capisce? Well, do you understand?
Bart: Everything except "capisce."

Bart: [pauses] Try-N-Save? [Steam appears to be blowing from his ears]
Marge: Ah, my teapots are ready.

Homer: I've figured out the boy's punishment. First, he's grounded. No leaving the house, not even for school. Second, no egg nog. In fact, no nog, period. And third, absolutely no stealing for 3 months.

[Blumf]

As I never paid much attention to recently released Simpsons, I did not realise Bart vs. Australia was a S06 episode. I'd always assumed that it must have been much later because of it's innate shitness.

Have we had a proper episode where Marge is a robot yet?

[checkoutgirl]

I always really liked Bart Vs Australia and in particular the little fella on the left there.



I like the way he's drawn and his accent is hilariously mangled (sounding Russian at times). I also enjoyed Hank's performance as the kids father "Nine hundred dollareedoos ? TOBIAS!!"

It goes without saying that I'm not going to waste a single calorie of energy defending my opinion.

[SimonJT]

eeef eets een imeeergincee thin

[SimonJT]

That aside, I don't mind "Bart vs Australia", it's certainly fine compared with other "Simpsons go to..." episodes, which are always wall-to-wall tedious sterotypes. A lot of American comedies, even the most sophisticated ones, seem to have a problem with this - The Onion brought out an atlas a little while back which sounded appalling.

[samadriel]

On the commentaries I remember some arse defending that episode with the standard 'What's the matter? Can't take a joke?' stuff.

Yes, I never liked 'Bart Vs Australia', but it's hard for such an opinion to be taken seriously when you are yourself Australian.  The attitude behind the episode is as ugly as its appearance; I was fairly young when it came out, so I suppose I was naively hoping for some kind of biting satire, and felt let down by the toothless-yet-sneering inanity we got instead ('Chuzwozzers'?  What the fuck?)  The only good joke I can remember is Homer being moved to tears by the clockwise-flushing toilet.

[kngen]

Anyway I'll try my hand again; what do people consider the first great episode of The Simpsons?

There are some pretty good ones at the start of season two, but I think the first truly great episode was Bart Gets Hit By A Car. It started a run of solid-gold classics that ran all the way till near the end of season 4 when 'So It's Come To This' derailed that train (yeah, good job Fox).

[Thursday]

I don't understand the problem. Are people saying this isn't an accurate representation of the real Australian Prime Minister?

[George Oscar Bluth II]

That aside, I don't mind "Bart vs Australia", it's certainly fine compared with other "Simpsons go to..." episodes, which are always wall-to-wall tedious sterotypes. A lot of American comedies, even the most sophisticated ones, seem to have a problem with this - The Onion brought out an atlas a little while back which sounded appalling.

We're looking at you, Venezuela episode of Parks and Recreation.

[Jerzy Bondov]

Americans love national stereotype humour because they have no real national character of their own beyond being thick and obese.

[Thursday]

Mexicans and most South American immigrants are a frequent target. I guess writers in L.A that consider themselves poor want to vent their frustrations at feeling socially awkward around their maids and gardeners. Family guy in 2013 seems to revel in doing completely unironic Chinese jokes every week, and well any country that's not American really.

[checkoutgirl]

Americans love national stereotype humour because they have no real national character of their own beyond being thick and obese.

Satire.

[checkoutgirl]

Family guy in 2013 seems to revel in doing completely unironic Chinese jokes every week

Ah crap, now we have to have the "Family Guy is shit" agreement.

[Sexton Brackets Drugbust]

While Bart vs. Australia is a shit episode, surely the Knifey Spoony exchange is a fairly iconic moment.

[Lee Van Cleef]

While Bart vs. Australia is a shit episode, surely the Knifey Spoony exchange is a fairly iconic moment.

Agreed. And sheer brilliance tbh. The rest of the ep is pretty naff though.

[clingfilm portent]

Actually, cultural insensitivity was a longstanding Simpsons tradition from the get go. Apu may have eventually become a fleshed out character with great lines, unlike Groundskeeper Willie, but they're both pretty naff really.

[clingfilm portent]

What the hell. As I pressed enter I got the warning and there it was LVC... 'pretty naff'. Talk about wavelength. I can't quite decide what your avatar is though: Teenage Caveman or Night of the Blood Beast? :)

[elnombre]

Actually, cultural insensitivity was a longstanding Simpsons tradition from the get go. Apu may have eventually become a fleshed out character with great lines, unlike Groundskeeper Willie, but they're both pretty naff really.

True enough, though I think that the Australia episode goes out of its way to imply American superiority in a way that Willie and Apu's characters (while lazy stereotypes) don't necessarily do.

[Nowhere Man]

Its sad to consider at this point only 1/3 of the show was truly great-brilliant but at its peak I would consider it the greatest TV show of all time (at least in the US)

[Delete Delete Delete]

I feel this screen shot demonstrates how low its sunk, from Season 20.

[onthebeach]

Is that real?!

[Small Man Big Horse]

Though to be fair that would make for an amazing final frame of animation from the last ever episode.