"Alternative" comedy isn't funny

[Johnny Yesno]

So Peter Kay is mainstream? Fucking hell. Things are even worse than even I had at first previously imagined.

Yes. You're in 2013, Doctor!

[Nmkl Pkjl Ftmsch]

we're all friends here.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

The big problem:

Mainstream: Not the same as traditional.


When you realise this the issues of confusion and impotence you feel surrounding this debate melt away, leaving only the permanent indelible ones you can do nothing about.

[Nmkl Pkjl Ftmsch]

It staggers me, to be honest, that Adrian Edmondson now presents a safe-as-milk daytime TV programme about the Yorkshire Dales. Never saw that coming. It's also heartbreaking how Bill Oddie has turned into a bitter misanthropic gnome. I've said it hundreds of times before on this board, but when I was a kid I never dreamed comedy would let me down, but it bloody did.

[alan nagsworth]

I had no idea you were Bill Oddie.

[Nmkl Pkjl Ftmsch]

I had no idea you were Bill Oddie.

Good a time as any to post Bill's first ever single, 'Nothing Better To Do'...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xncOm-6pGeM

Banned by the BBC, don't you know.

[Johnny Yesno]

It staggers me, to be honest, that Adrian Edmondson now presents a safe-as-milk daytime TV programme about the Yorkshire Dales. Never saw that coming. It's also heartbreaking how Bill Oddie has turned into a bitter misanthropic gnome. I've said it hundreds of times before on this board, but when I was a kid I never dreamed comedy would let me down, but it bloody did.

I'm surprised it surprised you. You only have to see how the rebels of the music world can be relied upon to become part of the establishment they supposedly hate if they become successful. I suppose that if an artist's success reinforces the notion that the capitalist system works then that is them becoming part of the establishment.

[checkoutgirl]

I'm surprised it surprised you.

Cunt must go around in a perpetual state of shock and surprise. Don't tell him about the Johnny Rotten butter ads or the Iggy Pop insurance ads or he'll have a coronary.

[up_the_hampipe]

Mainstream: Not the same as traditional.

Moreso in America than here, unfortunately.

[Johnny Yesno]

Don't tell him about the Johnny Rotten butter ads or the Iggy Pop insurance ads or he'll have a coronary.

And those that don't promote someone else's product often become the product itself. Those stadium legends like the Rolling Stones and The Who exist solely as money making machines for shareholders in exactly the same way as car manufacturing plants do.

[Jake Thingray]

I had no idea you were Bill Oddie.

Much as he'd like to ally himself to Milligan, he is indeed much closer to Oddie, in becoming an object of derision and having appalling taste in music and comedy.

[daf]

I never dreamed comedy would let me down, but it bloody did.

Nothing lasts forever, just enjoy the things you like.

[WesterlyWinds]

Nothing lasts forever, just enjoy the things you like.

I think he enjoys seething hatred.

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

Didn't you feel a bit daft posing for that picture in the Internet cafe ?

[Paaaaul]

Oh, is that him?
I thought it was one of The Grumbleweeds.

[RickyGerbail]

that's me, where did you find that picture TC Raymonde'?

[Replies From View]

Everyone should use this image from now on when they want to be condescending.  Familiarity through repetition will make it more and more meaningful.

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

"Danny Baker really enjoyed doing the classic Bruce Forsyth pose."

[checkoutgirl]

Everyone should use this image from now on when they want to be condescending.  Familiarity through repetition will make it more and more meaningful.

[Mirthinda]

Stand up is very masculine. Its one person getting up dominating an audience, having all the attention and the audience submits to the superiority of the stand up by laughing.

Pretending that stand up comedy is radical and revolutionary is like trying to be a hyper masculine alpha male whilst being democratic and fair at the same time. Its trying to have it both ways because the medium of comedy is intrinsically masculine, dominant and exclusive because you either get the joke or not.

Two points:

A test is connately submissive, because what do we do in a test? We submit answers to questions for grading. "Test" is also the root word in both "Testicles" and "Testosterone", which are associated with masculinity. Ergo, masculinity – at its very core – is submissive.

Laughter is not only a form of submission. Laughter can be used to control tempo. It has been used in sitcoms to give the illusion of cohesion. There are directors of television shows that actually have to work moments of dead air into scenes, so that the editors can later dub in laughter. It's a powerful tool. It's powerful enough to make someone want to get up on a stage to be judged, essentially, by groups of people, sometimes numbering in the thousands. I had a friend who did stand-up comedy in East Harlem; he did this act that ended with a Nick Mason parody drum solo. One night the laughter got out of hand; it became accusatory, interspersed with a cavilous critique on his pedal work, then they fucked him with his percussion mallet. He died of a perforated colon. Some people blamed the drums, some blamed Pink Floyd, the police blamed the audience, the media blamed drugs and minorities, but me – I blame the laughter.

[graffic]

I agree with Graffic though, Stewart Lee is awful.

I don't think Stewart Lee is awful. He is ok in small doses. I would rather  watch Stewart Lee than Michael Mcintyre or Russel Howard.

Anyway. Guy Debord wrote about the "spectacle" of consumer capitalism in Society of the Spectacle. Alternative comedy, like other things, has become part of the spectacle. Except its even worse than other things that have become consumed by the spectacle, because laughing at something, such as the suffering of the poor, is one of the most horrible, inhumane things you can do as a human being. On top of this intellectual and moral collapse there is a misplaced belief and smugness that what the comedians are doing is right and correct which is really offensive because its not always true.

I dislike the way comedy, especially stand up, has come all over the TV because its not radical or about comedians with ideas its lowest common denominator stuff for plebs who laugh to forget how shit their lives are. Its also a symptom of society becoming more disconnected, social darwinistic and Thatcherite that entertainers like comedians are held in such high regard and are so popular. Its this petty bourgeoise phenomenon of the "funny guy" middle manager alpha male type is the one everyone submits to because he is "funny" and can make people laugh.

Alternative comedy resides at the apex of the "trendy" part of radical politics because there is nothing less trendy and uncool than not "getting" the joke and feeling left out because everyone else is laughing which is a vulgar inversion of radical politics because radicalism is supposed to be about challenging social norms and being the one who isn't laughing which is why I think comedy is a very limited form of art to take on the mainstream and the way Stewart Lee sees himself as a "left wing" stand up, "punching up" is pathetic.

[Johnny Yesno]

Anyway. Guy Debord wrote about the "spectacle" of consumer capitalism in Society of the Spectacle. Alternative comedy, like other things, has become part of the spectacle.

If that's the case, is it still alternative comedy? Has it suffered the same fate as indie music? And has all alternative comedy become part of the spectacle?

Except its even worse than other things that have become consumed by the spectacle, because laughing at something, such as the suffering of the poor, is one of the most horrible, inhumane things you can do as a human being.

Laughing at the suffering of the poor doesn't fit my understanding of alternative comedy at all. Got any examples? Is mocking the rich and powerful inhumane?

On top of this intellectual and moral collapse there is a misplaced belief and smugness that what the comedians are doing is right and correct which is really offensive because its not always true.

'The comedians' is so vague as to be meaningless. What comedians? Is Tim Vine being smug when he says that 'Exit signs are on the way out'? Does he have an agenda against exit signs?

I dislike the way comedy, especially stand up, has come all over the TV because its not radical or about comedians with ideas its lowest common denominator stuff for plebs who laugh to forget how shit their lives are.

Yes, I don't like a sticky wet TV either. I am also a pleb who likes to laugh to forget the bits of my life that suck.

Its also a symptom of society becoming more disconnected, social darwinistic and Thatcherite that entertainers like comedians are held in such high regard and are so popular. Its this petty bourgeoise phenomenon of the "funny guy" middle manager alpha male type is the one everyone submits to because he is "funny" and can make people laugh.

Surely entertainers that can attract a large audience are a sign of a more connected society - it suggests lots of people share the same cultural references. As to the second point, you have seen The Fast Show's Colin Hunt and The Office, right?

Alternative comedy resides at the apex of the "trendy" part of radical politics because there is nothing less trendy and uncool than not "getting" the joke and feeling left out because everyone else is laughing which is a vulgar inversion of radical politics because radicalism is supposed to be about challenging social norms and being the one who isn't laughing which is why I think comedy is a very limited form of art to take on the mainstream and the way Stewart Lee sees himself as a "left wing" stand up, "punching up" is pathetic.

So now you've gone from complaining that society is disconnected to trumpeting the merits of being a loner. And you're criticising other people for elitism if they define themselves against the mainstream yet you are happy to define yourself against the alternative.

[checkoutgirl]

'Exit signs are on the way out'

Ha!! I love Tim Vine but I couldn't eat a whole one.

[daf]

Ha!! I love Tim Vine . . .

". . . but I had difficulty cultivating one in this climate?" [nb]excluding the current heatwave.[/nb]

[graffic]

Laughing at the suffering of the poor doesn't fit my understanding of alternative comedy at all. Got any examples? Is mocking the rich and powerful inhumane?

A lot of "alternative" comedians are just mocking those who are conservative and religious, which doesn't necessarily mean they are rich and powerful.  Rachel Johnson, sister of Boris, was mocking well known church goer Ian Hislop on have i got news for you for being a Christian. Because its seen that those who go to church, or if you are a muslim a mosque, are seen as poor and uneducated. Its not a past time of the trendy, urbane elite bourgeoise, so they are laughing at the religious and conservative because its seen as outdated, uneducated and a past time of the poor or uneducated, fitting again with how Thatcherite and social darwinistic society has become, because worshipping a "God" and repenting sins is seen as a weak thing to do, as if you aren't strong enough to survive on your own.

[glitch]

Come now graffic, you have made claims of being a Trot in the past and yet you're taking a counter-revolutionary attitude to religion. Have some fucking consistency.

[graffic]

Surely entertainers that can attract a large audience are a sign of a more connected society - it suggests lots of people share the same cultural references. As to the second point, you have seen The Fast Show's Colin Hunt and The Office, right?

Its a sign that society has become more social darwinistic and contemptible of the poor because laughing is showing you belong to the tribe and with alternative comedy its showing you belong to the educated "tribe" and "get" the joke, heaven forbid you wouldn't get the joke or be the victim of the joke. Its a needy petty bourgeoise thing to have a fetish for men who exert power over people by cracking jokes and making people laugh all the time. Its why society is so debased that the fact Boris Johnson is mildly amusing is seen as being a huge asset because society is so shallow and needy that they need someone to make them laugh and belong to the tribe to "get" the jokes. When you grasp the fact that Boris Johnson is an extreme libertarian right winger who has a sadistic fetish for crushing the weak and the poor, believes Christianity made empires "weak" and believes bankers are entitled to massive bonuses post recession because they are wealth creators, its actually very sinister.

[doppelkorn]

graffic you are an utter moron.

Do you know who Rachel Johnson and Ian Hislop are?

[Johnny Yesno]

A lot of "alternative" comedians are just mocking those who are conservative and religious, which doesn't necessarily mean they are rich and powerful.  Rachel Johnson, sister of Boris, was mocking well known church goer Ian Hislop on have i got news for you for being a Christian. Because its seen that those who go to church, or if you are a muslim a mosque, are seen as poor and uneducated. Its not a past time of the trendy, urbane elite bourgeoise, so they are laughing at the religious and conservative because its seen as outdated, uneducated and a past time of the poor or uneducated, fitting again with how Thatcherite and social darwinistic society has become, because worshipping a "God" and repenting sins is seen as a weak thing to do, as if you aren't strong enough to survive on your own.

The important thing here is that they mock their religiosity rather than their lack of wealth. I guess it could be argued that religion flourishes where there is a lack of education due to poverty, but that would be saying that religion relies on ignorance, and I suspect you wouldn't agree with that. So we're left with the idea that religiosity is independent of wealth - Hislop would be an example to support this argument. If that's true then religion is fair game.

[thepuffpastryhangman]

The important thing here is that they mock their religiosity rather than their lack of wealth....So we're left with the idea that religiosity is independent of wealth...If that's true then religion is fair game.

It's at best punching sideways, if not down. Or rather those mocking the Godful think they're punching down. I believe the poster meant 'why are they mocking the church goers, going to church hardly affects the general population'. And if it does affect them, it's almost always in a positive way, as contributions often help fund good shit for the wider community, providing playgroups for example.

You wouldn't get on the 'up against the wall come the revolution' list for being religious.