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The World's End by Pegg and Edgar... Pegdgar!

Started by chocky909, July 11, 2013, 03:53:14 PM

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Johnny Townmouse

Quote from: Retinend on December 08, 2013, 02:52:47 PMI think that's far too strong. There were many personal elements to the story that weren't just "tossed off", plucked out of some bag of stock characters and plot devices. It was a film about getting older, as the duo are, and about maintaining friendships, about nostalgia and about how the world seems to get stranger with age.

Yeah, I think everyone understands what the film's themes are, perhaps because sometimes we are told what they are in the most crude and unsubtle way. So much of the film is tossed-off because it isn't plotted with enough care - so when Pegg's character says that they should continue with the crawl so they don't raise suspicion you realise that they settled on that before elevenses and thought 'that'll do' before answering emails on a project that clearly paid better than this one. Same for the really fucking dire wrist shit that attempts to load the film with some melodramatic gravitas long after it has shot its zany-comedy, intertextual references bolt. Not to mention the third act 'climax' which is a completely deflating experience of half-baked idea bolted onto 'spectacular' explosion and visual effects.

It's poor stuff.

QuoteI said back in my little review on page 3 or so that I felt as if the different concerns felt a bit miscellaneous and didn't dovetail together quite so well as in Shaun of The Dead, but I never doubted that they were writing sincerely about their life experiences. I just don't see how you think it's "lazy" - they made a film very different to the other two in the trilogy, and they made a film with themes not often put onto screen. Maybe you could call the sci fi element "lazy." But so were the idea of zombies in SoTD ripped off.

To my mind SoTD deals with very low-stakes emotional themes, and is all the better for it. Wright talks about this on both the RHLSTP and WTF? podcasts - mainly it is an apology to his ex-girlfriend for being a shit, inattentive boyfriend. This submerges well into a zombie flick in which, in general, characters make decisions in keeping with the logic of the story world, and on that basis everything makes sense. Going to the pub to survive conflates well with Pegg's character's inflating of the Winchester as a place of refuge. In TWE a really quite heavy theme/s is mixed very awkwardly with a sub-genre (alien invasion) in a very unorganic way. The now late Syd Field talks about how themes should be added to plot like ice being dropped into water - it should eventually become one unified idea. This works well in SoTD and not so well at all in TWE where the high genre stuff is always a distraction from the serious business of doing what could be a lovely little observational drama about men turning 40, nostalgia, refusing to grow up, conforming to middle-age too readily, and the inability to let the past go. In the end we get something that doesn't work as a smart comedy, or a dramatic melodrama, or a postmodern genre mash-up.

However, it is a comedy, and the fact that I don't find it funny doesn't help. If you found it funny much of the film's major crimes could probably be excused.

phantom_power

I think the criticism that the film is tossed off is pretty ridiculous. It is clear how much effort Pegg and Wright put into these films. It is fair enough if you don't like the film but I doubt if that failure is from lack of effort.

I also don't understand the criticism that they can't avoid couching their themes in genre parodies. That is what this whole trilogy of films is about! It is like saying Evil Dead was too concerned with trying to scare people and have gruesome effects. Well, duh.

The ending as well, clearly not tossed off or lazy. It is pretty brave to end a film like that with no reset switch and with the main character not really learning anything. They actually end the world, that's a pretty interesting way to end the film.

Overall I would say the film was a league below Hot Fuzz (and therefore several leagues below Shaun of the Dead) but it is still a funny, exciting and enjoyable film that has enough substance make you think a bit as well.

Johnny Townmouse

Quote from: phantom_power on December 09, 2013, 11:26:49 AMI think the criticism that the film is tossed off is pretty ridiculous. It is clear how much effort Pegg and Wright put into these films. It is fair enough if you don't like the film but I doubt if that failure is from lack of effort.

But this is an example of a film that looks great, particularly for a British film, but with some really sloppy, lazy writing. This is all getting quite subjective now though.

QuoteI also don't understand the criticism that they can't avoid couching their themes in genre parodies. That is what this whole trilogy of films is about! It is like saying Evil Dead was too concerned with trying to scare people and have gruesome effects. Well, duh.

Yeah, their use of genre is generally a plus point for the entire trilogy, although I think the fish-out-of-water cop bromance action genre is mined a great deal better than the English Occult Folk genre is in Hot Fuzz.

QuoteThe ending as well, clearly not tossed off or lazy. It is pretty brave to end a film like that with no reset switch and with the main character not really learning anything. They actually end the world, that's a pretty interesting way to end the film.

It's surprising to me that the "oh, fuck it" ending was anything other than dissatisfying and lazy, but again, a lot of subjectivity here it seems.

Also, after that, I did wonder what they were trying to do with the post-apocalyptic ending, and was it supposed to be a completely new genre bolted onto the end of a creepy body snatchers/village and children of the damned genre. Because it seemed an awkward fit, in a genre where normality is either resumed, or an ironic new equilibrium is maintained. It seemed to just go Mad Max or perhaps Terminator with no good reason. This reminds me that the individual elements of the film are kind of fascinating, but together do not work (for me).

phantom_power

I think the ending was just a case of subverting expectation. Everyone assumes these films will revert to norm at the end somehow so this one decided to take the premise to its logical conclusion.

As I say I have no problem with people not liking the film but I didn't really understand some of the criticisms leveled against it

Johnny Townmouse

Quote from: phantom_power on December 09, 2013, 02:21:02 PMI think the ending was just a case of subverting expectation. Everyone assumes these films will revert to norm at the end somehow so this one decided to take the premise to its logical conclusion.

For me it sort of does revert, although it reverts to an UP ending, with Pegg's character suddenly in an environment where he can be happy.

QuoteAs I say I have no problem with people not liking the film but I didn't really understand some of the criticisms leveled against it

Likewise, I find it surprising that this isn't regarded in the same league as Pegg's hated Star Wars prequel. I think Wright is quite a bad director in the sense that he manages to get really stilted and wooden performances out of both Considine and Marsen, which is an extraordinary feat given their chops. He's good at fights though.

Old Nehamkin

Quote from: Johnny Townmouse on December 09, 2013, 02:44:28 PM
Likewise, I find it surprising that this isn't regarded in the same league as Pegg's hated Star Wars prequel.

You mean Star Trek? Wasn't that film generally well received? Or are you referring Pegg's own hatred of the Star Wars prequels?

Johnny Townmouse

Quote from: Old Nehamkin on December 09, 2013, 02:51:30 PM
You mean Star Trek? Wasn't that film generally well received? Or are you referring Pegg's own hatred of the Star Wars prequels?

The latter.

Old Nehamkin


checkoutgirl

Quote from: Johnny Townmouse on December 09, 2013, 02:44:28 PM
Likewise, I find it surprising that this isn't regarded in the same league as Pegg's hated Star Wars prequel.

Flip, you're not messing around with that comment, you went straight for the crown jewels of put downs. The nuclear option.

The Phantom Menace Comparison.

BOOM!!!

I had plenty of problems with the film but I'd never think to go that far.

phantom_power

Design department aside, there is nothing right about The Phantom Menace. Surely The World's End is above that? I don't think Marsan and Considine gave bad performances, though their characters might have been a bit thin. Generally I think Wright does alright with his actors though. I can't think of many bad performances in his films.

It is interesting listening to American podcasts where it seems this film has had a much better reception. Filmspotting raved over it, and they aren't exactly easy to please, and everyone from Mark Maron to Doug Benson had good things to say about it. I think the press reviews were pretty great as well.

Famous Mortimer

Doug Benson very rarely criticises films that his guests or friends are in, though, in common with so many US comedy podcast people.

phantom_power

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on December 10, 2013, 06:39:11 AM
Doug Benson very rarely criticises films that his guests or friends are in, though, in common with so many US comedy podcast people.

No but I think you can tell when they genuinely like something or not. They tend to not mention as much the ones they don't really like and only say they like it when they have to.

Noodle Lizard

I finally saw it yesterday and it's all a bit blah.  The jokes are there, but they're not funny enough to make you laugh, especially not if you've already seen pretty much the same ones done better in other Pedgar stuff.

It also made me realise how little I like Edgar Wright's directing/editing.  Flashy-for-the-sake-of-it student movie bollocks. 

Johnny Townmouse

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on December 18, 2013, 01:51:54 AMIt also made me realise how little I like Edgar Wright's directing/editing.  Flashy-for-the-sake-of-it student movie bollocks.

Yes, quite.

If you want to dislike him even more take a listen to the WTF? podcast in which he acts like an unfunny zany student regaling an increasingly bored sounding Maron with his wacky stories. Unless you have listened to the Herring interview, in which case you will have heard all his stories already.

Maron is usually so enthusiastic with all his guests but Wright really wears him down.

Noodle Lizard


phantom_power

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on December 18, 2013, 01:51:54 AM
I finally saw it yesterday and it's all a bit blah.  The jokes are there, but they're not funny enough to make you laugh, especially not if you've already seen pretty much the same ones done better in other Pedgar stuff.

It also made me realise how little I like Edgar Wright's directing/editing.  Flashy-for-the-sake-of-it student movie bollocks. 

I think his style is nothing like that. The flashy stuff almost always serves a purpose, usually to propel the story along. I think his direction is a vital ingredient in all the stuff he has directed and they would all be much the lesser without his input.

You can see the thought behind each placement or camera move and it is far removed from the Michael Bay type of frenetic camerawork I would associate with your statement.

SteveDave



up_the_hampipe

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on December 18, 2013, 01:51:54 AM

It also made me realise how little I like Edgar Wright's directing/editing.  Flashy-for-the-sake-of-it student movie bollocks.

Yeah I agree with that. In an interview for a media course at a fancy college, I lied by saying Edgar Wright was my biggest influence just because it's the type of stuff those media tutors love to hear. I got on the course and made nothing remotely similar to Wright's work. The highest graded final project the year before was an advert done in the style of Scott Pilgrim vs. The World. Typical.