The hypocrisy of Mark Kermode and film critics

[graffic]

Mark Kermode is a film critic and is well known for his feminist critiques of films like Sex in the city and films that Danny Dyer appears in. He uses the word "misogynist" several times in his reviews of films like Transformers, any Danny Dyer film and Superbad. However he was outspoken in praise of the latest Bond film and the bond film Casino Royale. So if its Danny Dyer in Pimp or Football Factory its horrible misogyny but if its a racist, mysoginist violent psychopath who works for an imperialist government its absolutely fine and not sexist in the slightest, despite the fact Bond is a cringe worthy caricature of a type of "Lad" who treats women as objects and when one of them dies just says "the bitch is dead."

I know that film critics aren't taken seriously and films aren't that important but the hypocrisy is incredible. There is also another hypocrisy with Western film critics. Any British gangster film like Lock Stock, Rise of the footsoldier or a Danny Dyer film will get 7% on rotten tomatoes and shit reviews because its a portrayal of the white working class who are often racist. But the minute its a gangster film featuring greasy Italian Americans or neanderthal black gangs its apparantley a work of art. I know that I may come across as a Daily Mail "think of the children!" bore or tedious guardian reading kill joy but thats how I feel. Scarface and Goodfellas are vile films that any mature man should grow out of once he gets past the age of 16. Its disgusting the way hollywood  flicks of greasy Italian Americans swearing their way through a pointless depiction of human hating scumbags is considered art but a depiction of a white working class yob getting into fights at the football is universally condemned as misogynist. They are both shit films and Goodfellas is not art.

There are so many things to make a film about other than crime. It is the lowest form of art for complete twats who enjoy watching criminals and thugs being made to look glamorous. Goodfellas is one of the most cringe-worthy and greasy films portraying pikeys and neanderthals with crass American accents and unrefined Italian American mannerisms. I actually prefer Essex gangster films because although they are definitely nasty, unpleasent films like the American ones, they are slightely less greasy because they don't feature Italian American wise guys.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Bond is a bit like that, but it's funny that of all the examples you chose "the bitch is dead" which is a pointedly snub-nosed sign-off towards a woman he did genuinely fall in love with.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

the white working class who are often racist. But the minute its a gangster film featuring greasy Italian Americans or neanderthal black gangs its apparantley a work of art. I know that I may come across as a Daily Mail "think of the children!" bore or tedious guardian reading kill joy but thats how I feel. Scarface and Goodfellas are vile films that any mature man should grow out of once he gets past the age of 16. Its disgusting the way hollywood  flicks of greasy Italian Americans... Goodfellas is one of the most cringe-worthy and greasy films portraying pikeys and neanderthals with crass American accents and unrefined Italian American mannerisms. I actually prefer Essex gangster films because although they are definitely nasty, unpleasent films like the American ones, they are slightely less greasy because they don't feature Italian American wise guys.

I know you do this on purpose, but still...

[graffic]

I know you do this on purpose, but still...

So black rap music can't possibly be misogynist and Italian Americans role in organised crime should just be ignored because they were colonial upstart immigrants and not white Europeans.

The hollywood film industry is reactionary anyway. They want kids to idolize Scarface and 50 cent to encourage the get rich quick mentality. Of course you are above all this and think its racist to criticise America or any culture other than the European ruling class in any way whatsoever.

[graffic]

I don't see how its racist to describe black violent criminal thug gangs as "neanderthal" or Italian American criminals as "greasy." It is racist to assume that they represent the behaviour of their whole community, which is what you are doing by suggesting I am being racist.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

So black rap music can't possibly be misogynist

Yes it can.

and Italian Americans role in organised crime should just be ignored

Given your hatred of Goodfellas and the like, wouldn't you rather their role in organised crime was ignored? Isn't that what you want?

The hollywood film industry is reactionary anyway.

So are you.

Of course you are above all this and think its racist to criticise America or any culture other than the European ruling class in any way whatsoever.

You are thick as pig shit.

[SteveDave]

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

I don't see how its racist to describe black violent criminal thug gangs as "neanderthal" or Italian American criminals as "greasy." It is racist to assume that they represent the behaviour of their whole community, which is what you are doing by suggesting I am being racist.

I'm suggesting you're being racist because of your use of racist language.

[Jim_MacLaine]

Graffic reels one in every time.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Something to do of an idle afternoon, innit?

[graffic]

I'm suggesting you're being racist because of your use of racist language.

You mean describing both Italian Americans and black gangs as "neanderthal." How is describing criminal thugs as neanderthals racist?

[thenoise]

First day of my holiday and I'm lying in bed reading this shit.  I really need to sort my life out.

[graffic]

So are you.

I am an intellectual. I am also a mind bender. I am hyper and I am low and everything in between.

[checkoutgirl]

Any British gangster film like Lock Stock, Rise of the footsoldier or a Danny Dyer film will get 7% on rotten tomatoes and shit reviews because its a portrayal of the white working class who are often racist

Absolute drivel.

[Famous Mortimer]

I'll take "activities that are less fun than driving your head into a brick wall for 30 minutes" for 200 please, Alex.

[danyulx]

I agree with most of Grafic's post, particularly the second half of the second pragraph and all of the third - taking away all the racist nonsense and snobbery.

I'm not saying these films shouldn't be made and all that, but I've always had quite a loathing for Hollywood's (and the UK's) cinematic love affair with gangsters who - in my quite extensive first-hand experience of the real thing, as about half of my non-immediate family are bloody gangsters: money launderers, drug dealers, con men, you name it, we have them all - are nothing more than psychopathic dough-obsessed arsesholes who are not even worth making films about, never making films about and  then glamorising to high heaven on the way. One the few great exceptions to this rule being John Cassavetes's excellent 'The Killing of a Chinese Bookie' (1976), which not only doesn't glamorise gangsters in any way , but actually portrays them as complete tossers; and not just tossers in the evil sly mugging genius sense either, but just simple run-of-the-mill tossers.

[graffic]

I'll take "activities that are less fun than driving your head into a brick wall for 30 minutes" for 200 please, Alex.

What I've always wondered about the Godfather is why the fuck does Marlon Brando speak like someone with a speech impediment who has to speak in breath.

There really is no excuse why any self respecting intelligent person should have a reason to sit and watch a film about greasy Italian American wise guys.

[wosl]

Mark Kermode is a film critic.  Films aren't that important.  The end.

FYP

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

There really is no excuse why any self respecting intelligent person should have a reason to sit and watch a film about greasy Italian American wise guys.

I like that you look out for people different from yourself.

[Bill]

'The Killing of a Chinese Bookie' (1976), which not only doesn't glamorise gangsters in any way , but actually portrays them as complete tossers; and not just tossers in the evil sly mugging genius sense either, but just simple run-of-the-mill tossers.

Which is exactly what Goodfellas does, and is one of the main reasons why it became one of my favourite films when I saw it about 20 years ago, being an antidote to previous Hollywood romanticisation of the mob.

It blows my mind that anyone can seriously think Goodfellas (a story even told from the point of view of a 'rat') glorifies the Mafia, when it so clearly depicts mobsters as ignorant, paranoid, low-rent psychotics who turn on each other at the drop of a hat.

[Funcrusher]

Would this be the appropriate thread to shout NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO on discovering the (sadly not surprising) news that Kermode is replacing Phillip French as The Observer's film critic?

[madhair60]

Kermode has always been shit, but so has Graffic so there's a sort of a cosmic irony there.

[lazarou]

Would this be the appropriate thread to shout NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO on discovering the (sadly not surprising) news that Kermode is replacing Phillip French as The Observer's film critic?

On the bright side, it has to be better than the job Camilla Long's doing since she took over from Cosmo Landesman at the Sunday Times. Fucking hell she's bad.

[graffic]

Which is exactly what Goodfellas does, and is one of the main reasons why it became one of my favourite films when I saw it about 20 years ago, being an antidote to previous Hollywood romanticisation of the mob.

It blows my mind that anyone can seriously think Goodfellas (a story even told from the point of view of a 'rat') glorifies the Mafia, when it so clearly depicts mobsters as ignorant, paranoid, low-rent psychotics who turn on each other at the drop of a hat.

I would have to disagree because having seen the film, i.e having sat down and watched it from beginning to end, I kind of think the opposite of that.

I don't see how you can think that at all. They are wearing suave suits, henry has a hot girlfriend, (they all have hot girlfriends), De Niro of course looks suave, they are made to look tough and in charge of the situation (except for the end which is very brief). They are shown to make a lot of money and have a lot of fun. I don't know how you can think they are not depicted in a way that doesn't glorify the mafia. Why is showing  a few of them get killed and them getting sent down at the end good enough to put a wet flanel on the whole thing? It doesn't. They live a more fast paced, "cool", wealthy, thrilling etc life than the average person and it could be seen that dying early or being sent down was worth it. This is all portrayed by the director in the film.

One thing I quite like about some Essex gangster films in amongst the nastiness is that the main characters are made to look like complete plonkers at times with nothing between their ears whereas Goodfellas is such a fucking  greasy film its only right until the end that De Niro and Henry suddenly stop being portrayed permanently as mr suave and always totally on top of the situation and effortlessly cool.

[Glebe]

Well, as you point out, everything goes wrong in the end... Henry becomes an "average nobody" and gets "to live the rest of (his) life like a schnook." But point taken, it definitely walks a fine line between portraying the greed and horror of that world and reveling in it (same with Casino). The real guys where generally not suave and smart (although, brutal monster though he was, Jimmy was apparently pretty sharp and could really turn on the charm), they were a really nasty bunch of people, much worse than they are shown in the film, in some cases. In fact, you could actually accuse Scorsese of watering down the real horror of it, although as I believe he said himself they wouldn't have been to make the film if they didn't soften it up a bit.

[EDIT]Of course the film has been extremely influential, just take a look at my new av!

[Operty1]

Mark Kermode is a film critic and is well known for his feminist critiques of films like Sex in the city and films that Danny Dyer appears in. He uses the word "misogynist" several times in his reviews of films like Transformers, any Danny Dyer film and Superbad. However he was outspoken in praise of the latest Bond film and the bond film Casino Royale. So if its Danny Dyer in Pimp or Football Factory its horrible misogyny but if its a racist, mysoginist violent psychopath who works for an imperialist government its absolutely fine and not sexist in the slightest, despite the fact Bond is a cringe worthy caricature of a type of "Lad" who treats women as objects and when one of them dies just says "the bitch is dead."

I know that film critics aren't taken seriously and films aren't that important but the hypocrisy is incredible. There is also another hypocrisy with Western film critics. Any British gangster film like Lock Stock, Rise of the footsoldier or a Danny Dyer film will get 7% on rotten tomatoes and shit reviews because its a portrayal of the white working class who are often racist. But the minute its a gangster film featuring greasy Italian Americans or neanderthal black gangs its apparantley a work of art. I know that I may come across as a Daily Mail "think of the children!" bore or tedious guardian reading kill joy but thats how I feel. Scarface and Goodfellas are vile films that any mature man should grow out of once he gets past the age of 16. Its disgusting the way hollywood  flicks of greasy Italian Americans swearing their way through a pointless depiction of human hating scumbags is considered art but a depiction of a white working class yob getting into fights at the football is universally condemned as misogynist. They are both shit films and Goodfellas is not art.

There are so many things to make a film about other than crime. It is the lowest form of art for complete twats who enjoy watching criminals and thugs being made to look glamorous. Goodfellas is one of the most cringe-worthy and greasy films portraying pikeys and neanderthals with crass American accents and unrefined Italian American mannerisms. I actually prefer Essex gangster films because although they are definitely nasty, unpleasent films like the American ones, they are slightely less greasy because they don't feature Italian American wise guys.

Now go home and get your fucking shine box.

[Bill]

I don't see how you can think that at all. They are wearing suave suits, henry has a hot girlfriend, (they all have hot girlfriends), De Niro of course looks suave, they are made to look tough and in charge of the situation (except for the end which is very brief). They are shown to make a lot of money and have a lot of fun. I don't know how you can think they are not depicted in a way that doesn't glorify the mafia. Why is showing  a few of them get killed and them getting sent down at the end good enough to put a wet flanel on the whole thing? It doesn't. They live a more fast paced, "cool", wealthy, thrilling etc life than the average person and it could be seen that dying early or being sent down was worth it. This is all portrayed by the director in the film.

I'm not sure what you expect to happen in a film about the Mafia, if not money and molls, but I found their lifestyle incredibly un-glamorous.

They're not sitting around pools surrounded by Playboy Playmates or driving fast cars, they're generally just hanging out in smoke filled bars or diners, in between killing people and being arrested. Even the capo himself, Paulie, is seen cooking a fry up in a grubby restaurant.

Goodfellas is such a fucking  greasy film its only right until the end that De Niro and Henry suddenly stop being portrayed permanently as mr suave and always totally on top of the situation and effortlessly cool.

The absolute very first thing that happens is they brutally stab to death Billy Batts, because they fucked up killing him earlier (itself a fuck up, because he was 'made'), and from then it's one slaying and fuck up after another.

Henry is arrested no less than three times in the film, and jailed for 10 years mid-way, along with Jimmy. After being released, Jimmy slaughters most of his crew because he's paranoid and scared after Stacks fucks up the disposal of the van, and Tommy is whacked because he and Jimmy stupidly killed Batts. They even fuck up the burial of Batts and have to dig him up and bury him again.

None of that is what I'd consider being effortlessly cool or on top of the situation.

[Sony Walkman Prophecies]

Which is exactly what Goodfellas does, and is one of the main reasons why it became one of my favourite films when I saw it about 20 years ago, being an antidote to previous Hollywood romanticisation of the mob.

It blows my mind that anyone can seriously think Goodfellas (a story even told from the point of view of a 'rat') glorifies the Mafia, when it so clearly depicts mobsters as ignorant, paranoid, low-rent psychotics who turn on each other at the drop of a hat.

I think the bit Scorsese's been pulled up for is the ending. This is the part of the film where (to a rendition of Sid Vicious' My Way) you have Joe Pesci firing a gun straight at the viewer. Dunno if the studio made him ad-hoc it, but it does basically undermine everything that came before.

Re: Kermode, my problem with him is he doesn't know anything other than film. I remember him coming out of a cinema to review Enter the Void, and all he could do was talk camera angles and budgets - the philosophical centrepiece of the whole thing completely eluded him.

[Famous Mortimer]

I used to detest Kermode, but I find him tons better now. I don't always agree with him, but by and large he's a smart fella. His love for the writing of Kim Newman, surely Britain's most tedious man, on the other hand makes me wonder about his critical faculties.

Sony Walkman Prophecies, I wouldn't normally get my in-depth reviews of films from someone thirty seconds after they'd finished watching the film. Also, is it possible that your, er, somewhat left-field philosophical interests aren't shared by Kermode, and that's why you don't reckon much about him?

With all reviewers, you need to figure out where their views and yours are likely to agree. For all the enormous love I have for Roger Ebert, he never really "got" modern comedy, I think, and I tended to disagree with him most often on that. It's the same thing with Kermode, I reckon - which isn't to say he's wrong, just that his views and mine on comedy don't match.

I also really want him and Danny Dyer to become mates. Dyer's round of appearances on TV panel shows a while back show a man with a decent sense of humour and a willingness to laugh at himself. I think a Dyer / Kermode film review show would be amazing.

[Default to the negative]

After watching a film, I almost always look up Kermode's review of it on You Tube, but I have to admit that I never listen to the show in its entirety. I'm not really interested in promotional interviews and radio banter, but the guy can do a good 8-minute review.