Main Menu

Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 28, 2024, 06:28:08 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Under The Skin

Started by Butchers Blind, September 03, 2013, 11:38:12 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

popcorn

#30
A lot of rambling thoughts and questions here:

Spoiler alert
I'm gonna call the protagonist Scarlett, for want of any available name.

The aliens take the form of the male bikers, which seem to be this film's Agent Smiths. I was confused by the biker guy in the opening carrying the body from the side of the road. Is that biker Scarlett before she takes the new skin? In the first "infinite white space" sequence, when we see the tear roll down the cheek, I have a memory of the figure looking at her being a man at first, before becoming a clone of Scarlett, but I'm not confident about that at all. If so, it might imply that Scarlett started off as a male biker, then switched to this new skin, wherever it came from.  Did the aliens steal the body of a woman who'd already been killed for the job, or was something else happening? One of my friends thought the skin had already been used by another alien, who had failed like Scarlett "fails", and was being recycled.

It's tempting to see the story as a new version of the old "robot learns to love" story (which I have no objection to, and it works really well), and as I was watching the first half of the film, I did see her as an unfeeling robot. No feelings, no opinions, just following its programming. When she watches the drowning then strikes the guy with the rock, she's not so much evil as incapable of caring, in the way that a computer wouldn't care either.

But as the film went on, I began to reconsider. I think maybe she did have feelings and opinions the whole way through - maybe she liked or didn't like her job, but didn't see it as anything other than a job, like a webcam girl might. When she picked up the disfigured man, she might not have had any opinions on his appearance one way or the other. It might not even have occurred to her that he looked any different or would be considered less viable a sex partner; to her, he's an unknowable alien either way. When he says he's never touched anyone, she's confused because isn't that what the human men all like to do? It's something he clearly wants, because everyone does, but he's so unhappy and so insecure he can't bring himself to do it, even when he has Scarlett Johanson asking. She has to use real tenderness and patience to seduce him, and that's the beginning of her losing her power as a predator and learning empathy.

What was everyone's interpretation of the scene where she makes love with the guy who looks after her, then examines her crotch with a lamp? I thought she'd just had an orgasm, which ties into the "becoming human" thing, but my friend thought it meant her skin wouldn't allow her to have sex.

The film obviously has a lot of stuff in it about the male gaze, consent, and rape culture. I like her driving a transit van, because it has such obvious links to White Ven Men and serial killers, and it constantly makes you wonder what she's hiding. Even as a seductress, she gets a lot of unsolicited attention from horny dickheads. It's interesting that the second half of the film sets up so much tension and anticipation about the bikers going after her, but in the end it's the park ranger who destroys her after he tries to rape her.
[close]

Much to chew on.

lipsink

Quote from: popcorn on March 17, 2014, 11:58:44 AM
Spoiler alert
I'm gonna call the protagonist Scarlett, for want of any available name.
What was everyone's interpretation of the scene where she makes love with the guy who looks after her, then examines her crotch with a lamp? I thought she'd just had an orgasm, which ties into the "becoming human" thing, but my friend thought it meant her skin wouldn't allow her to have sex.
[close]

Spoiler alert
I was pretty sure it implied that she didn't have a vagina and was smooth like a Barbie doll. The man looked like he having difficulty getting it in. Though, now you say it maybe it could have been her having an orgasm and being confused and terrified by it.
[close]

popcorn

Spoiler alert
I could be TOTALLY wrong about this, I don't think her not having a vagina would have come as a surprise to her, because she's done a lot of self-examination by then. Besides, don't you kind of... see her vagina (yippee)?
[close]

lipsink

Spoiler alert
Hmm, yeah she might have examined herself. But you don't see her vagina, do you? I didn't catch it, and I was really looking.

I heard 'Real Gone Kid' on the radio yesterday and it made me feel sad. I think I'll associate it with this film forever now.
[close]

popcorn

Spoiler alert
DOES SCARLETT JOHANSSON HAVE A VAGINA OR NOT?

Even if she does, it's possible the man only met hard, unyielding alien metal beneath. I think I'd need to rewatch it and pay closer to attention to how the chap reacted.
[close]

lipsink

Spoiler alert
Was her being unable to eat the cake meant to mirror that sex scene?

Also, didn't she manage to eat the beans on toast that same guy made for her?
[close]

Wet Blanket

Spoiler alert
In the scene where she examines herself naked in a mirror there's an explicit shot of her nether regions so we can say with certainty that both the actress Scarlett Johannsson and her character in this film have a vagina.

When i saw the subsequent scene I thought we were supposed to infer that she'd been shocked to discover this fact, but looking back it's probably more bafflement at what that chap had attempted to do to it, and she uses the bedside lamp to make sure he hasn't damaged anything.

These aliens you see are absolutely baffled by vaginas but do at least know how to drive vans on busy urban roads[nb]Like most blokes eh lads? Eh? [/nb] (albeit evidently only ones with automatic gearboxes)
[close]

Olarrio

Spoiler alert
My impression was he had just inserted his penis into her and she was all like "wait, what? what is that?" Whereas my better half felt it was because lacking the requisite genitalia.
[close]

El Unicornio, mang

I recommend reading the book, it answers these questions in pretty good detail.
Spoiler alert
In the book, she's more of a hideous specimen, stitched together, cut up,shaved and made to have human genitalia and attributes by an alien doctor (her species actually look more like kind of big furry llama type creatures). The only really attractive asset she has are a pair of massive fake breasts which the men she picks up comment on in their internal monologues.
[close]

popcorn

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on March 17, 2014, 06:29:28 PM
I recommend reading the book, it answers these questions in pretty good detail.

So what does it say? (Not that the book is the same thing as the film in any case.)

El Unicornio, mang

Aside from the bit I already posted about how she came to be in her present form, I can't really type out everything relevant from the book, there are a lot of internal monologues explaining things. It does seem like the film is a bit different from the novel (I have to wait til the 4th to see it for myself) but the general gist is that:
Spoiler alert
she is an alien living with other aliens who basically order her about and send her out on these "missions" to get men to bring back to the farm they all live on. She doesn't particularly like what she has to do (as she finds finding/interacting with the men very tiresome), and the fact she had to be cut up and deformed to do it, but it is considered the duty of her as the "chosen one" of her species. The "leader" arrives near the end of the story in his spaceship and she is shown what happens to the men she captures. Although it's nothing to the other aliens (who view humans like we view cattle), she is disturbed by it as she has come to make emotional connections to her victims, although she still views them as being a lower life form. That's what I remember anyway, might have to read it again.
[close]

Basically, the novel is an anti-meat industry metaphor. The film I think has a different message though.

popcorn

#41
Yeah, the film is almost nothing like what you describe, and the ending in particular sounds radically different. It's very, very sparse and abstract, and the apparent themes are very much about sex and rape and the male gaze, not about meat or farming.

Has this film only got a limited release at the moment?

I really want to see it but my local cinema (a multiplex who are actually pretty good for also showing smaller "indie" films in their smaller screens) aren't showing it.  Nearest cinema to me that is showing it is 36 miles away.

Is it just on a limited release now before going national later?

BlodwynPig

A great film and loved the contrasts throughout (and also location spotting, I'm sure I saw my former PhD colleague in one shot with a child on his shoulders)....and Tantallon castle, where I got engaged! I told my fiance about it and she said "who's Scarlet Johansson?".

The film was a real shapeshifter too. Its worth a second watch now I have a better understanding on the plot. The one scene that stood out was the
Spoiler alert
sex scene
[close]
. With that music playing over the top it seemed like a low budget Scottish soap opera from the mid-90s made for Christian TV or something. Still enjoyable, but as I said, full of contrast and enigma.

popcorn

No idea what kind of release it's on atm, I just saw it in my local indie.

The bizarre juxtapositions are one of the things I loved about it. This is a film that manages to combine utterly, utterly alien imagery - stuff that just captivates and stumps you - with utterly banal suburban living rooms. I mean, that's what loads of scifi cinema is like, "what if an alien turned up in your back yard?", but this mixes cinematic aesthetics in a totally original, unnerving way. Sometimes it's Space Odyssey, sometimes it's EastEnders or something. I mean, the central premise is kind of a gag on those lines unto itself - Scarlett Johansson, American movie star, driving a Ford Transit around Glasgow? She's an alien before you even know she's an alien.

Part of me almost wonders if they shouldn't have gone further and made it a bit meta. The alien arrives, models its appearance on something sexy, and ends up with movie star Scarlett Johansson.

Apparently they made a lot of the film with hidden cameras while Scarlett went around actually chatting up men on the street for real, and some of the guys she seduces weren't actors. If that's true, I imagine the blooper reel is full of fascinating stuff; did anyone ever go "Oi, you look a bit like Scarlett Johansson"?

El Unicornio, mang

There are a lot of pics online of her falling over in the street in Glasgow for a scene, with people around her not knowing it's for a film and rushing to help. Would hope they'd have some of those on the DVD too.

dr_christian_troy

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on March 17, 2014, 11:11:15 PM
There are a lot of pics online of her falling over in the street in Glasgow for a scene, with people around her not knowing it's for a film and rushing to help. Would hope they'd have some of those on the DVD too.

Spoiler alert
She never says 'Thank you' - I'm hoping there's an outtake where someone shouts 'YOU'RE WELCOME' as she wanders off.
[close]

columbay

#47
Spoiler alert
I didn't full get what was going on during the 'vagina inspection' either - initially I thought that it was because she'd just realised that she hadn't been 'supplied' with one but the idea that she was just freaked out by the guy attempting to penetrate her, and then checking herself, seems to make more sense now. This would also fit in nicely with the film moving into the final section with her alone in the woods. It seemed to me that she'd been wandering for a while (the blood stains shown on her leggings suggested to me that she'd fallen quite a few times) and that there'd been some sort of reason why she'd left the bloke in the village after the film had spent so much time showing them together - being freaked out by the idea of penetrative sex, which presumably she's not familiar with, would fit with this in a way that her just having an orgasm, or the guy ejaculating (which I've also seen posited as an explanation) possibly wouldn't have done.

What a film though. Everything I'd hoped it would be from the trailers/reviews. Although it was very different overall it actually ended up taking a bit more than I'd expected from the novel - some of her reactions to human contact, and the very ending in particular (with the rape attempt, and 'becoming one' with the environment at the very end) seemed quite similar - although it has been a while since I read it so I may be talking out of my arse.

What did people make of the short scene in the middle where one of the bikers seems to 'inspect' her in the old house? The way that the camera seemed to close in on her eyes suggested that he was checking for some sort of emotional reaction - had they had problems with other Lauras/Isserleys 'going rogue' due to empathy with humans before? I thought that this was what had gone wrong with the girl at the start - her being the last Isserley before Scarlett got the job?
[close]

Wet Blanket

Quote from: popcorn on March 17, 2014, 11:05:24 PM
Apparently they made a lot of the film with hidden cameras while Scarlett went around actually chatting up men on the street for real, and some of the guys she seduces weren't actors. If that's true, I imagine the blooper reel is full of fascinating stuff; did anyone ever go "Oi, you look a bit like Scarlett Johansson"?

I doubt any of the men she actually seduces weren't actors. That's a hell of an ask from a production assistant isn't it? 'Scuse me, yeah, that convo you just had? It was with a movie star and we're making a film. Listen, will you come with us now so we can film you with your cock out chasing Scarlett Johannsson into a swamp? Also we'll need it to be standing to attention. That okay? Won't take more than an hour and we'll have your stiffy immortalised in front of the whole world'


On the subject of bang-ons - was anyone else surprised this got away with a 15 certificate?

BlodwynPig

I thought the guys she brought to the black place were definitely actors - their bodies were too honed. But some of the neds she met in the street were definitely just neds.

Wet Blanket

Yeah, the blokes she asked for directions and whatnot were obviously genuine (and all surprisingly amiable too).

popcorn

Spoiler alert
I didn't see Scarlett going into the woods at the end as necessarily a flight of shock or fear. It seemed to me that it was part of her coming to terms with what had happened and finding herself etc; "I'm a woman now mum". Except then she was raped.
[close]

It seems very unlikely the men she picks up weren't actors, but that's what Glazer claims here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-26559813

"Most of her "victims", who are chatted up by Johansson, and enticed to come and sit in her Transit van, aren't actors, but Jonathan Glazer says 'they were talked through what extremes they would have to go to if they agreed to take part in the film once they understood what we were doing. The few actors we did have were ones who wanted to experiment and challenge themselves.'"

Spoiler alert
Did any of the men she actually got to sit in her van NOT get taken to the evil black liquid room?
[close]

chocky909

Spoiler alert
What happened to the elephant man. He seemed to be sinking below the liquid but then suddenly he was walking home only to be picked up by a biker. Why was he spared?
[close]

popcorn

#53
Spoiler alert
Either he lost his nerve or she did. I think the latter. As I wrote above, I don't think she sees any difference between him and other men, so where her questions might have seemed patronising to him, I think it was actually the start of her being curious and then empathetic about the human race.

The biker guys, who seemed to be monitoring her, somehow knew about this and killed the guy before he could tell anyone, then set out after Scarlett, but that never goes anywhere.
[close]

BlodwynPig

Spoiler alert
I must have missed his killing - what happened?
[close]

popcorn

It's possible I misunderstood or I'm misremembering - nothing seems certain in this film in retrospect.

Spoiler alert
The guy wanders naked in some fields. A biker guy rides out to intercept him at 1000mph. The biker smashes a car window and pops the boot, then walks out into the fields. He comes back with a body which he stashes in the boot. Presumably the body belongs to the disfigured chap.
[close]

BlodwynPig

Quote from: popcorn on March 18, 2014, 10:20:55 PM
It's possible I misunderstood or I'm misremembering - nothing seems certain in this film in retrospect.

Spoiler alert
The guy wanders naked in some fields. A biker guy rides out to intercept him at 1000mph. The biker smashes a car window and pops the boot, then walks out into the fields. He comes back with a body which he stashes in the boot. Presumably the body belongs to the disfigured chap.
[close]

got it

popcorn

In any case I don't think he made it to Tesco.

popcorn

Spoiler alert
Another thought as to why the disfigured man is different and evokes a different response in her. He's the first man who goes along with her out of trust and hope, and not sexual greed. He doesn't believe he really deserves her, or possibly anyone. The other men think they're in control, and that they've picked HER up.
[close]

lipsink

Spoiler alert
After leading the disfigured guy into the black stuff there's a scene of her staring at her own reflection in the window for ages. I took that as either she was seeing herself and being ashamed of what she's just done or seeing her own face and realising the guy was actually disfigured. Either way she started to feel guilty about her actions.
[close]