IOS7 is ...

[Steven]

I really don't think phones need to take advantage of 64 bit architecture for at least another 4 - 5 years, fully-fledged desktops don't even really do it NOW to be honest! The only conceivable advantage is when a phone goes into a desktop mode when you plug it into a monitor and keyboard+mouse etc like with Ubuntu OS and this won't be the norm for at least another 2 years, and that would be to use more intensive programs which I'd think why wouldn't you be using a proper desktop to use if you were serious. It's all a premature move to make money.

[MojoJojo]

There's some sense in enabling it early so developers get used to it and all the bugs get worked out before it's actually needed[nb]and in fact we've enabled 64bit builds on the stuff we make at my company for this reason[/nb], but yes, trying to big it up as something of interest to consumers at this point in time is bollocks.

[Replies From View]

It's all a premature move to make money.

And of course so Apple can say "we were the first company to do blah blah" - so that their customers think they are still pioneering stuff and not lagging behind the competition.

[Steven]

And of course so Apple can say "we were the first company to do blah blah" - so that their customers think they are still pioneering stuff and not lagging behind the competition.

I don't think Apple lags behind the competition, they just make backwards decisions on purpose because they know they can make more money that way. I mean, I just out of curiosity had a look for the average contract plan for an iPhone 5s and it's over £1000 all together, that's insane. They really do prey on people with more money than sense, or at least on their ignorance. Obviously the majority don't have the money or they wouldn't be on these extortionate contracts just to get the phone.

The iPhone 5s is still a dual-core phone, when all new Android phones are now quad-core, but as I said before most apps don't make much use of the 3 and 4th core right now, so why have Apple not gone down that path? I imagine so they could go with this 64 bit A7 chip and bloat the software to make people with older products upgrade, then quite soon when apps are needing quad-cores then will pull out the quad-core model to make everyone switch yet again, when software and apps are far sooner to take advantage of more cores than they will 64 bit architecture.

£1000 for a 2 year contract is insane though, with no-contract I bought a quad-core Jellybean Android phone at Christmas with a 5.3 inch screen and dual-sim card capability for only £100, I can choose my own phone provider so put a giffgaff SIM in it, I pay around a tenner a month at my own leisure for calls and stuff. This will probably last me 2 years, and even if it doesn't or something new comes out I want, I can sell it on or get rid of it at this price. Ok, so the build quality isn't anywhere near as good as an iPhone, but I have pretty much the same functionality and I've dropped it a bunch of times without its case and it's been fine, iPhones disintegrate (on purpose I think) as soon as gravity has any effect on them. Apple have an entirely cynical two pronged attack via software and hardware to get everyone onto these insidious expensive 2 year contracts with the phone companies and then quickly try and trick them to move on to the next contract/phone as soon as that's over.

[Replies From View]

Apple have an entirely cynical two pronged attack via software and hardware to get everyone onto these insidious expensive 2 year contracts with the phone companies and then quickly try and trick them to move on to the next contract/phone as soon as that's over.

It's especially disgusting with iPads.  People are used to upgrading their phones and contracts every couple of years, but here I am with a tablet computer that isn't on a contract, I paid for upfront and as such I'm used to thinking of it as an extension of the laptop I've had (and has worked without a hitch) for five years. 

Yet quite soon and deliberately this tablet is going to go from working perfectly to being obsolete, despite never being dropped or used in a steam room or whatever.  I can find a computer from the early 90s that'll still run its own version of word and open .doc files from its own era, yet applications for Apple devices (perhaps their rivals are the same; I don't know) simply stop running stuff their own age if you don't continue to upgrade.  Call me old fashioned but when I've spent £500 on something I want it to continue working until its circuit boards have rusted!

[Steven]

It's especially disgusting with iPads.  People are used to upgrading their phones and contracts every couple of years, but here I am with a tablet computer that isn't on a contract, I paid for upfront and as such I'm used to thinking of it as an extension of the laptop I've had (and has worked without a hitch) for five years. 

Pretty much the only reason to get a tablet is to watch video in bed or browse the web while on the toilet or something like that. For doing anything else or work-related stuff you're much better off getting a 2nd hand dual intel core laptop for like £70, they're ten a penny.

I only just looked at the iPhone 5s specs and seen it only has 1GB ram which they are trying to hide, which means it will be slower than a 32 bit OS on even that device in pretty much every sense, especially for games. You need at least 4 gig to take advantage of the 64 bit architecture and that's not going to be the norm on phones for at least another couple of years. With Android devices getting cheaper and cheaper and the OS getting more advanced Apple are courting some major ship-jumping from this kind of shit.

[Replies From View]

Pretty much the only reason to get a tablet is to watch video in bed or browse the web while on the toilet or something like that.

Well that's incorrect because I use mine for work - I like the integration across devices with Evernote, Pages and other such writing applications.  And it works well for that purpose.  They can get to fuck if they think I'm going to buy another one to replace it, though.

[Blumf]

You need at least 4 gig to take advantage of the 64 bit architecture and that's not going to be the norm on phones for at least another couple of years.

I wouldn't say that. The 4GB limit is a problem for 32-bit apps, but there are other advantages to 64-bit stuff even on <4GB memory systems. Trouble is, it's a little tricky nailing down how the advantages (things 64b can do quicker than 32b CPUs) match up against the disadvantages (mainly being 64b software can eat up a bit more memory for various reason[nb]Ignoring the space taken by 32-bit support that the phones have to carry currently[/nb], although that can sometimes be negated by other factors[nb]SNG might have insight into the 32/64 performance question with his gaming background[/nb])

In short, it's tricky to say if 64-bit on the new iPhones is a bad idea right now. I think Replies From View's idea that it's Apple getting the transition out of the way ready for the next cycles big launch when they can go 'woo' about their big memory and multi-tasking support with all the apps ready for it might be right.

[Steven]

Well that's incorrect because I use mine for work - I like the integration across devices with Evernote, Pages and other such writing applications.  And it works well for that purpose.  They can get to fuck if they think I'm going to buy another one to replace it, though.

Fair enough but I couldn't imagine using a tablet for any extended typing or reading. Swyping every time to scroll the page? You're using the touchscreen to type for extended periods? I really think a laptop is much better suited and cheaper and more replaceable for this kind of thing.

I wouldn't say that. The 4GB limit is a problem for 32-bit apps, but there are other advantages to 64-bit stuff even on <4GB memory systems. Trouble is, it's a little tricky nailing down how the advantages (things 64b can do quicker than 32b CPUs) match up against the disadvantages (mainly being 64b software can eat up a bit more memory for various reason[nb]Ignoring the space taken by 32-bit support that the phones have to carry currently[/nb], although that can sometimes be negated by other factors[nb]SNG might have insight into the 32/64 performance question with his gaming background[/nb])

In short, it's tricky to say if 64-bit on the new iPhones is a bad idea right now. I think Replies From View's idea that it's Apple getting the transition out of the way ready for the next cycles big launch when they can go 'woo' about their big memory and multi-tasking support with all the apps ready for it might be right.

As I've said all that's just not needed on phones at the moment, just kinda maybe conceivably tablets in the future, but I seriously doubt Apple are going to unveil an update where you can multitask like a desktop any time in the next 3 or more years, just maybe on tablets but definitely not phones. I can't imagine the contract prices when they have over 4 gigs of RAM coming on the phone. You know it's a gimmick when desktop computers don't even really make use of it.

[Replies From View]

Fair enough but I couldn't imagine using a tablet for any extended typing or reading. Swyping every time to scroll the page? You're using the touchscreen to type for extended periods? I really think a laptop is much better suited and cheaper and more replaceable for this kind of thing.

I use a bluetooth keyboard for typing.  It's also the best device for reading and annotating academic books and journals that are in .pdf format.  If it seems like an expensive .pdf reader, it's nothing compared to how much the documents would have cost if I hadn't managed to download them for free.

Not sure what the problem is with swiping to turn a page for reading.  Anyway you don't need to swipe, you can just tap on the right hand side of a page to move forward a page or the left hand side to go back.  And obviously when you're typing it turns the page automatically, like a normal word processor.


Anyway, whether I have a legitimate reason to use a tablet computer in some people's eyes is neither here nor there.  It doesn't change the fact that the established process of making these devices prematurely unusable is extremely cunty.

[Steven]

I use a bluetooth keyboard for typing.  It's also the best device for reading .pdfs for prolonged periods of time.  If it seems like an expensive .pdf reader, it's nothing compared to how much the books would have cost if I hadn't managed to download them for free.

Not sure what the problem is with swiping to turn a page for reading.  And obviously when you're typing it turns the page automatically, like a normal word processor.


Anyway, whether I have a legitimate reason to use a tablet computer in some people's eyes is neither here nor there.  It doesn't change the fact that the established process of making these devices prematurely unusable is extremely cunty.

It's just that my point was you were decrying your expensive device going out of date, which you have essentially turned into a laptop by using an external keyboard, and I was saying it'd be easier to get a cheap laptop for under £100 that performs those same functions without shelling out £500. Laptops are by their nature a lot easier to type and read on, why do you think they sell docks for pads to join with their keyboards?

From your point of view your tablet and keyboard combo works, but if you didn't own it would you rather pay £70 for something you can easily replace, or £400 or more for something that you cannot.

[Replies From View]

It's just that my point was you were decrying your expensive device going out of date, which you have essentially turned into a laptop by using an external keyboard, and I was saying it'd be easier to get a cheap laptop for under £100 that performs those same functions without shelling out £500.

Are you going back in time and telling my pre-iPad self, or telling the version of me that already has the benefit of hindsight?

Anyway I still prefer reading .pdfs of books and journals on the tablet computer.  I find it a more natural way of reading them than a laptop screen.  I'd just prefer that a perfectly usable device was not being made prematurely useless, that's all.  I'm not complaining about the device in and of itself.  I'm defending myself against the criticism that I should expect it to become obsolete because it is only meant to be a silly device for gaming, web browsing and watching videos.

[Steven]

Are you going back in time and telling my pre-iPad self, or telling the version of me that already has the benefit of hindsight?

No, I was trying to justify my point from before which you said was wrong because it doesn't fit your post-iPad buying self. Y'know for the benefit of other people reading who might be thinking of whether to buy a tablet or not, you've already said you regret buying it due to Apple screwing people on device longevity. I was going to buy a tablet myself a few months back and just thought about it for a while, and it was simply greediness to get the latest thing as a cheap laptop does pretty much the same job and is better for writing on, so I got a £70 one on ebay and am glad I did.

Anyway I still prefer reading .pdfs of books and journals on the tablet computer.  I find it a more natural way of reading them than a laptop screen.  I'd just prefer that a perfectly usable device was not being made prematurely useless, that's all.  I'm not complaining about the device in and of itself.  I'm defending myself against the criticism that I should expect it to become obsolete because it is only meant to be a silly device for gaming, web browsing and watching videos.

Nah, you should expect it to last at least 4 - 5 years, it's just that doesn't work for Apple's ravenous revenue stream.

[Steve Lampkins]

Fair enough but I couldn't imagine using a tablet for any extended typing or reading. Swyping every time to scroll the page? You're using the touchscreen to type for extended periods? I really think a laptop is much better suited and cheaper and more replaceable for this kind of thing.

As I've said all that's just not needed on phones at the moment, just kinda maybe conceivably tablets in the future, but I seriously doubt Apple are going to unveil an update where you can multitask like a desktop any time in the next 3 or more years, just maybe on tablets but definitely not phones. I can't imagine the contract prices when they have over 4 gigs of RAM coming on the phone. You know it's a gimmick when desktop computers don't even really make use of it.

I don't think it's just about taking advantage of more RAM. The comments to this article have some very interesting viewpoints on the advantages of going 64bit.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/12/apple_64_bit_iphone_pros_and_cons/


I updated iOS7 on my iPad 2, and there is a bit of a performance hit. I hope the zoom when closing apps to go the springboard can be switched off at some point, as it still stutters for me. I'll probably upgrade to the iPad 5 when it's announced next month, but I would probably have done that anyway.

[MojoJojo]

It's just that my point was you were decrying your expensive device going out of date, which you have essentially turned into a laptop by using an external keyboard, and I was saying it'd be easier to get a cheap laptop for under £100 that performs those same functions without shelling out £500.

Only if portability is not really a concern. Even if you never take it out the house, not being tied to a wall socket is a big plus.

Also, you can't really use a laptop on the loo.

[Replies From View]

No, I was trying to justify my point from before which you said was wrong because it doesn't fit your post-iPad buying self. Y'know for the benefit of other people reading who might be thinking of whether to buy a tablet or not, you've already said you regret buying it due to Apple screwing people on device longevity.

There's nothing wrong with the iPad itself - it's all lovely an' that if you can put the suffering of the people making it out of your mind.  The thing that took me surprise and might take others by surprise is the fact that for £500 you're not buying a device.  It's not like our day, when you could buy a Game Boy and enjoy that Game Boy and its games until either the Game Boy or the games break.  Instead for £500 you're buying access to a system that constantly updates and will soon leave your device sluggish and then useless.

Being used to computers of the past I would have expected my iPad to last around 4 or 5 years, and then finding it naturally running out of life span I might have bought another after half a decade.  Things have changed since my day, though, and feeling conned I will not being doing that once this one dies.  It's not £500 for a device - it's more like £500 for a 2 or 3 year subscription that leaves you with a chopping board if you don't resubscribe.  Doesn't say that on the box.

[Steven]

Only if portability is not really a concern. Even if you never take it out the house, not being tied to a wall socket is a big plus.

Also, you can't really use a laptop on the loo.

I never said it was, but you don't know what you're missing, the heat from the air vents hitting your bare legs is lovely.

[Replies From View]

the heat from the air vents hitting your bare legs is lovely

Something wrong with your loo, mate.

[biggytitbo]

In many ways the biggest thing was Project Butter, part of Jelly Bean's release last year.

Up until then, Android phones had always suffered in comparison due to a difference in the way the two systems are designed to respond to input. Essentially, iOS has always given a massive amount of priority to UI transitions and similar elements, while Android has generally focused on broad processing. On the one hand, it meant Android handled multitasking much more easily than iOS (which was always trying to get past the problem of multitasking while always prioritising UI transitions), but on the other it meant that no matter how good your Android phone was, you would always experience a very slight lag before the UI responded. Many people never even noticed that tiny lag, but people who'd previously been iOS users immediately did and I can understand how it would drive people crazy pretty quickly.

So for a long time, when people talked about how iPhones/iPads just "felt" better, my assumption was always that on some level this was what they meant; that smooth operation without the microsecond lag that characterised Android.

Then, Jelly Bean came out. Now, any UI transition takes over the phone pretty sharpish the minute it starts, along with a whole bunch of other rather clever optimisations which have basically erased that lag completely. And lo, questions of "feel" no longer seem to appear in discussions comparing the two. So suddenly, everything else about the phones becomes much more relevant, as the primary thing dividing them has disappeared.

---

Oh, quick note btw - the S Beam thing mentioned in the article? It's bollocks. Samsung's implementation of Wifi Direct is gash and doesn't work half the fucking time. Sooner Google make their own version the better.

Thats a load of old shite though. The ui in android 4.1+ is no better than any of the 2.3 devices ive seen. And web browsing, arguably the single most important thing on these devices is chronically awful in android. Chrome for android is a disgrace, as is the stock browser. Even the buggy safari 7 on an ipod touch is in a different universe performance wise to any browser on even the most high powered android device.


Why google, a company all about the web, are incapable of releasing a remotely acceptable browser on their mobile platform is a mystery. Browsing on an android tablet is a particularly painful experience, its like google, of all people, want the web to lose.

[Still Not George]

Thats a load of old shite though. The ui in android 4.1+ is no better than any of the 2.3 devices ive seen. And web browsing, arguably the single most important thing on these devices is chronically awful in android. Chrome for android is a disgrace, as is the stock browser. Even the buggy safari 7 on an ipod touch is in a different universe performance wise to any browser on even the most high powered android device.

... I can only assume they have different Android devices in whatever parallel universe you live in.

[Replies From View]

Did anybody else notice Apple saying that a great new thing about iOS 7 was that apps would update automatically?


I was like this:

[Steven]

Thats a load of old shite though. The ui in android 4.1+ is no better than any of the 2.3 devices ive seen. And web browsing, arguably the single most important thing on these devices is chronically awful in android. Chrome for android is a disgrace, as is the stock browser. Even the buggy safari 7 on an ipod touch is in a different universe performance wise to any browser on even the most high powered android device.


Why google, a company all about the web, are incapable of releasing a remotely acceptable browser on their mobile platform is a mystery. Browsing on an android tablet is a particularly painful experience, its like google, of all people, want the web to lose.

What are the main differences in your view between browsing on the recent iOS versions and Android Jellybean, biggy? I really don't think most people touch the stock browser with a shitty stick, or even use Chrome.

[falafel]

Safari on my partner's work ipad is mighty fiddly compared to my Android. Doesn't it still have a separate search bar?  L fucking O L.

[Blumf]

As I've said all that's just not needed on phones at the moment, just kinda maybe conceivably tablets in the future, but I seriously doubt Apple are going to unveil an update where you can multitask like a desktop any time in the next 3 or more years, just maybe on tablets but definitely not phones. I can't imagine the contract prices when they have over 4 gigs of RAM coming on the phone. You know it's a gimmick when desktop computers don't even really make use of it.

You've missed the point, memory isn't the only advantage of 64-bit. To give a more concrete example, crypto functions tend to be faster using 64-bit code, so that's a large chunk of common operations sped up (https, VPNs, not sure if iOS encrypts it's drives or anything)

[Steven]

You've missed the point, memory isn't the only advantage of 64-bit. To give a more concrete example, crypto functions tend to be faster using 64-bit code, so that's a large chunk of common operations sped up (https, VPNs, not sure if iOS encrypts it's drives or anything)

Fair point, but this is a tiny piece of the stuff you'd be doing with a phone, 64 bit just ISN'T NEEDED! And won't be for a good while. Maybe Apple do have some sort of long over-arching utilitarian end-game to merge all their software with some sort of manifold 64 bit multitasking amazingness across the board, but to me it just looks like a cheap attempt to get everyone to upgrade their equipment so they can cash in. I really don't think these multinationals look much further than the next step to the cash-cow.

[Replies From View]

Safari on my partner's work ipad is mighty fiddly compared to my Android. Doesn't it still have a separate search bar?  L fucking O L.

Chortle!  No it doesn't!!

[Replies From View]

I really don't think these multinationals look much further than the next step to the cash-cow.

I'd guess they're thinking a minimum of five steps.

[Steven]

I'd guess they're thinking a minimum of five steps.

The same five steps you should take all over your iPad since the update.[nb]Hehe, sorry, couldn't resist.[/nb]

[Replies From View]

The same five steps you should take all over your iPad since the update.[nb]Hehe, sorry, couldn't resist.[/nb]

It works well at the moment - it's an iPad 3 so not struggling yet.  It probably has a couple of years left if I'm lucky, but it's the intention that's horrible.  It's some people's jobs to plan the deterioration of older models of things - that very idea seems terrible to me.

[DJ DAFT PUNK FAN #1]

I guess it's the same principle behind self-destructing bog roll